How can I strengthen my relationship to my son? --> 25uc

[adamlll]

Hi everyone,

My 7-yo son and I have had a fairly fraught relationship since he was quite small. He loves to push buttons, and he knows mine intimately, and despite my best efforts and some real growth, I continue to fall short of my intentions and commitments (ideals?) to be a less reactive parent. Though I have had a consistent and deep meditation practice and have been a student of Yi for many, many years, I have struggled to modify and change my own behavioral patterns quickly enough to avoid clashing with his. He is diagnosed with ADHD, has a lot of anxiety, struggles with respecting boundaries (with his baby sister, myself and his mom, and kids at school), and has lately starting expressing a lot of self-criticism, even self-hatred. Some of this, I have convinced myself, has to do with my strong reactions over the years to his problematic behaviors, which I believe he has internalized as judgment and criticism of him as a person, and I hold a lot of guilt for this even while I (and his mom) continue to struggle to know how to support him in a way that does not make him feel like a terrible person. (BTW, I'm not looking for parenting advice here but am simply giving context to my question.)

So I asked Yi how I can strengthen my relationship with him and received 25uc. My initial interpretation of this reading is that it would benefit our relationship if I could strike a balance between detaching/disentangling myself either from the stories I'm telling myself about our relationship or from engaging with his behaviors in some measure (use fewer words and more physical contact instead? simply don't engage in certain situations?), or even the relationship itself. However, I am struggling to understand how to "detach" from my own beloved child in a way that strengthens our relationship.

Incidentally, my new year's reading was 59uc, Dispersing (see my thread from Jan 10), and I'm tempted to see a connection between the instruction there to go with the flow, to let go of a goal or purpose, and the instruction here to disentangle/detach.

I'm also wondering how to interpret the unchanging state of the hexagram.

As always, many thanks for your insights, Beautiful Community!

Deep bows of gratitude.

 

[Hans__]

Hi Adamlll,

So I asked Yi how I can strengthen my relationship with him and received 25uc.

Remarkably, H25 is literally about a father and a son. Trigram Heaven represents the father and trigram Thunder the (eldest) son.
In addition, trigram Thunder is also seen as the messenger and/or representative of Heaven, which raises the question to what extent does your son represent you? To what extent does he reflect your inner state of being?

The upper trigram Heaven is about structure, rules and laws, the lower trigram Thunder is the spontaneous, the unexpected. Thunder's spontaneity and unexpectedness must however comply with Heaven's laws and rules to avoid chaos. Heaven's laws and structure ensure a certain order in the universe. Not too tight and rigid so that all spontaneity disappears, but not too loose either so that it becomes chaos.

However, I am struggling to understand how to "detach" from my own beloved child in a way that strengthens our relationship.

Where does that term "detach" come from? Is that the translation you use?
Detach, of course, can be seen as distancing yourself from your own emotions that may want to react immediately to his behaviour, instead, maintaining a calm demeanour.

Judgement H25
...
If one is not what he should be,
He meets with calamity,
And it is not beneficial for him
To undertake anything.

From the text of the Judgement, one might conclude that the way of being is more important than the way of acting.
The Image text indirectly advises constant adaptability.

Image H25
...
Thus the ancient kings,
Rich in virtue,
And in harmony with the seasons,
Nourished the ten thousand things.

I'm also wondering how to interpret the unchanging state of the hexagram.

I wouldn't look for too much behind that, other than that H25 could be an ongoing attitude towards your son.
The nuclear hexagram of H25 is H53 Developing Gradually. This applies to both of you, of course. Not only is your son gradually developing, so are you in your role as a father. So H53 also shows that it doesn't have to be perfect right away, it goes through trial and error and that's fine.
The upper trigram in H53 is Wind/Wood, the trigram of communication and exchange.
Open and honest communication about one's own mistakes makes it possible for the other person to also show his/her flaws, enabling growth.

This would be my interpretation. As always, take what resonates and leave the rest

 

[Liselle]

I wonder if 25's Image would help? The Image is a Wing of the Yijing meant to be advice to a noble young one (a junzi). (Which doesn't mean it can't apply to those of us who aren't so young, of course. )

'Below heaven, thunder moves: all things interact Without Entanglement. The ancient kings, with abundant growth in accord with the seasons, nourished the ten thousand things.'

Hilary's explanation of that from her book:

Those who are without entanglement are like the natural world: effortlessly in harmony with the quality of the time, connected to the natural movement of heaven with the immediacy of thunder. The ancient kings could nourish the whole world with the abundance of seasonal growth, without ever making anything grow.

and from WikiWing:

The positive results of being without entanglement: being connected to the natural movement of heaven with the immediacy of thunder. The ancient kings seem to have a Daoist quality, moving with the quality of the time; they don’t make anything happen, yet everything is nourished. No butter mountains here.

(Just realized I don't know what a butter mountain is...aha, Wikipedia to the rescue.)

Obviously I don't know what it is that your son does that's a problem, or anything about your relationship, and there's never been a child who can just be left to do as he pleases, but is there any possibility of not trying so hard? Or not doing it yourself?

Recently I heard a story of someone prominent in a certain profession whose father was also prominent in the same profession, but the son made the point that he and his dad enjoyed this just as dad and son while he was growing up - his dad never tried to be his teacher.

If you take that very loosely since it's not about a profession...could it be relevant at all?

 

[rosada]

25. Innocence suggests to me that you seek out activities that don’t have rules. Art projects. Walks around the block.

 

[my_key]

Hi adamlll

Father / son relationships will always have an element of tension in them. Parenting is one of the hardest jobs we will ever take up and we all go into it with our eyes wide shut and learn on the job.

So I asked Yi how I can strengthen my relationship with him and received 25uc.

25 sits neatly between 24 where something we have lost is beginning its return and 26 where we are looking to learn from the past in order to seek the right nourishment to bring the returning great in us to occupy a larger portion of our world.

25 is perhaps then, that arena where the 'Disentangling' of the old and the new plays out its drama. This is a time of nurture and inspiration where you can begin to be more confident that the great in you is indeed there and that through a growing trust you can develop a new capacity to let it take up the reins.

Flowing deep in the veins of 25 is the unstoppable influence of 53 'Gradual Advance'. Step by step rituals have to be followed, and both conscious and unconscious thresholds have to be negotiated and crossed for the union that is in progress to become more firmly cemented. Think more of what you can harvest from each stage of the process and use this to enhance your performance in the next stage, Lead the way, even in small matters, as this will help create a clearer engagement, on all levels, with the transformation you are seeking within yourself and the relationship.

Incidentally, my new year's reading was 59uc, Dispersing (see my thread from Jan 10), and I'm tempted to see a connection between the instruction there to go with the flow, to let go of a goal or purpose, and the instruction here to disentangle/detach.

How can there not be a connection? This is happening in 2024! Is there anything more important, sitting in your 2024 in-tray, that needs an application of 'Dispersing' agent?

I'm also wondering how to interpret the unchanging state of the hexagram.

Unchanging hexagrams can mean that this is the best picture that can be drawn of the situation at the moment. It can be just a non-judgemental sit rep with a double underlined comment in the image. When things aren't seemingly changing in this realm then sure as eggs is eggs they'll be beginning a new dance in another realm.

Yi perhaps in 25 is advocating to the junzi how to consider, in this realm, ways in which to best approach, at this time, the demystifying and the unravelling of their past afflictions and/ or past tensions. This, whilst not always immediately apparent as to how or why it will work, is necessary in order to strengthen the nature of their current relationship i.e. putting it on a firmer, stable, less tense foundation.

... of course, there may be other ways in which you see this oracle is speaking to you.

Good Luck

 

[adamlll]

Thank you everyone who replied. The thread that seems to run through each interpretation is the idea that spontaneity and openness to the gradualness of the growth and development of our relationship, balanced with the natural structures and routines that go with a safe and nurturing environment, is what is called for here. Combined with the earlier reading (Dispersing), this reading seems to reinforce the wisdom of letting go of some of the need to control and influence my son's development, while also perhaps letting go of my own sense of responsibility for who he is and is becoming. Ultimately, the reading seems to suggest that I stay open to other ways of being with him and with myself, to be less rigid and insistent in general.

 

[Trojina]

My 7-yo son and I have had a fairly fraught relationship since he was quite small. He loves to push buttons, and he knows mine intimately, and despite my best efforts and some real growth, I continue to fall short of my intentions and commitments (ideals?) to be a less reactive parent.

So I asked Yi how I can strengthen my relationship with him and received 25uc. My initial interpretation of this reading is that it would benefit our relationship if I could strike a balance between detaching/disentangling myself either from the stories I'm telling myself about our relationship or from engaging with his behaviors in some measure (use fewer words and more physical contact instead? simply don't engage in certain situations?), or even the relationship itself. However, I am struggling to understand how to "detach" from my own beloved child in a way that strengthens our relationship.

Additional simple thought that came to me about 25uc is to take how he is less personally which also implies you cannot actively do anything to strengthen the bond. That's not to say you wouldn't go on being as good a father as you can be but this answer doesn't strike me as an abc of what to do.

In the top quote you say he loves to push your buttons but that's quite a different meaning in 7 year old who doesn't/cannot really understand you, an adult. If an adult is pushing your buttons it's generally with some knowledge which he doesn't have. There are lots of things to take from the answer but in very simple terms I do think this might be saying 'take it less personally'. Hard when currently everything about a child's behaviour is seen as some lack or fault on the parent's part but that really isn't always so. He has his own nature, well I know you know that but I'd think from this answer not all his behaviour is down to what you have or haven't done.

 

[adamlll]

Additional simple thought that came to me about 25uc is to take how he is less personally which also implies you cannot actively do anything to strengthen the bond. That's not to say you wouldn't go on being as good a father as you can be but this answer doesn't strike me as an abc of what to do.

In the top quote you say he loves to push your buttons but that's quite a different meaning in 7 year old who doesn't/cannot really understand you, an adult. If an adult is pushing your buttons it's generally with some knowledge which he doesn't have. There are lots of things to take from the answer but in very simple terms I do think this might be saying 'take it less personally'. Hard when currently everything about a child's behaviour is seen as some lack or fault on the parent's part but that really isn't always so. He has his own nature, well I know you know that but I'd think from this answer not all his behaviour is down to what you have or haven't done.

Yes, this is exactly the interpretation I've landed on--take it less personally, hold his behavior more lightly, at least in terms of how much control I have over it. Letting go, letting be.

 

[Henry Zahir]

Hi everyone,

My 7-yo son and I have had a fairly fraught relationship since he was quite small. He loves to push buttons, and he knows mine intimately, and despite my best efforts and some real growth, I continue to fall short of my intentions and commitments (ideals?) to be a less reactive parent. Though I have had a consistent and deep meditation practice and have been a student of Yi for many, many years, I have struggled to modify and change my own behavioral patterns quickly enough to avoid clashing with his. He is diagnosed with ADHD, has a lot of anxiety, struggles with respecting boundaries (with his baby sister, myself and his mom, and kids at school), and has lately starting expressing a lot of self-criticism, even self-hatred. Some of this, I have convinced myself, has to do with my strong reactions over the years to his problematic behaviors, which I believe he has internalized as judgment and criticism of him as a person, and I hold a lot of guilt for this even while I (and his mom) continue to struggle to know how to support him in a way that does not make him feel like a terrible person. (BTW, I'm not looking for parenting advice here but am simply giving context to my question.)

So I asked Yi how I can strengthen my relationship with him and received 25uc. My initial interpretation of this reading is that it would benefit our relationship if I could strike a balance between detaching/disentangling myself either from the stories I'm telling myself about our relationship or from engaging with his behaviors in some measure (use fewer words and more physical contact instead? simply don't engage in certain situations?), or even the relationship itself. However, I am struggling to understand how to "detach" from my own beloved child in a way that strengthens our relationship.

Incidentally, my new year's reading was 59uc, Dispersing (see my thread from Jan 10), and I'm tempted to see a connection between the instruction there to go with the flow, to let go of a goal or purpose, and the instruction here to disentangle/detach.

I'm also wondering how to interpret the unchanging state of the hexagram.

As always, many thanks for your insights, Beautiful Community!

Deep bows of gratitude.

In my experience, men have to play a certain role, as control figure, to show kids the limits of the world. Women, when mothering, would be the love beyond anything, the child will always be accepted, no matter what. This motherly love is needed when children show signs of different temperaments, or when they are not neurotypical, also by their fathers. We men are capable of completely accepting our kids like women do, without harming them (making them "soft" or similar) by believing in their processing of things and standing 100% by them.

Its a great responsibility to learn how to communicate with them, how to stimulate their growth, how to help them navigate this world, becoming preadolescents, adolescents and young males able to master their lifes. This will take acceptance of all of his being. Only then things will make sense and the connection will make you trust in LOVE like never before.

Thank you for considering this message, from a father with a son in a similar condiction to another father who has being trusted by the Universe to be not necessarily a perfect one, but a good one, a good dad, whom the child trusts for protection and guidance.

 

[adamlll]

In my experience, men have to play a certain role, as control figure, to show kids the limits of the world. Women, when mothering, would be the love beyond anything, the child will always be accepted, no matter what. This motherly love is needed when children show signs of different temperaments, or when they are not neurotypical, also by their fathers. We men are capable of completely accepting our kids like women do, without harming them (making them "soft" or similar) by believing in their processing of things and standing 100% by them.

Its a great responsibility to learn how to communicate with them, how to stimulate their growth, how to help them navigate this world, becoming preadolescents, adolescents and young males able to master their lifes. This will take acceptance of all of his being. Only then things will make sense and the connection will make you trust in LOVE like never before.

Thank you for considering this message, from a father with a son in a similar condiction to another father who has being trusted by the Universe to be not necessarily a perfect one, but a good one, a good dad, whom the child trusts for protection and guidance.

Beautifully said, and taken to heart. Thank you Henry.

 

[steve]

25. Innocence suggests to me that you seek out activities that don’t have rules. Art projects. Walks around the block.

exactly, sometimes the noisy ones become the quite ones and vice versa

 

[adamlll]

25. Innocence suggests to me that you seek out activities that don’t have rules. Art projects. Walks around the block.

My son loves art, and being outside is a big part of our days when it's feasible, even just a walk down to the arroyo. We also have a trampoline in the backyard, which he loves. He loves skateboarding, too, though when the "rules" of a lesson start to enter into the process, he does begin to check out a bit. The cool thing about skating, however, is that the rules reinforce themselves without a word from a teacher needed (if you don't bend your knees, you lose your balance; if you don't look where you want to go, you don't go there, etc.).