How can our love be rekindled? Hexagram 20 UNCHANGING

[DirkGrave]

Hi there!

I posted here a while ago concerning a break my partner decided to take because I wasn't dealing very well with the distance and it made me doubt the relationship and pushed for more and more attention until this made hee decide to break up with me, stating that she is trying to leave this in a way that I do not hang on a fairytale happy ending but leave some room also for feelings to change in the future. Let me add to this that distance is a factor that will not be at play anymore come next month since I am moving to Ireland (where she is from) in order to rebuild my life there, something I have been thinking of doing independently of her. We were friends for more than two years after circumstances (a trip together) made us realize we are extremely attracted to each other and we would like to give it a try, she was very very enthusiastic about this but wanted to do things right and step by step since we have both done the JUMP RIGHT IN thing and has always ended in disaster. She is currently going through a very stressful time personally, dealing with many different difficult situations and said she needed my support as a friend because she has no energy right now to focus on the relationship that did not work because of my pushing despite her asking over and over that things will be fine and I n eed to have confidence in us. She is heartbroken and has been crying daily over this for the past month despite being the one who asked for the break up. She says she is extremely sad about it but it doesnt change the fact that she just doesnt like me that way anymore but she knows time could maybe change things, she cant tell me with certainty that this is over for good.

Concerning the question, I asked Yi what can I do to rekindle our love? Bring us back to where we were before things went south.

The answer I got was Hexagram 20 UNCHANGING. I suppose this is not a lost cause, I could have gotten a lot worse. I guess its just time to cool off, perhaps stay out of touch for a while and really think about why I want her back and whether it is a good idea, to reevaluate if I would like to be with her for her or out of a fear of being lonely or not finding anyone else. I am fairly certain I want to be with her because I see a future with her and right now the circumstances were against us but I guess Yi is telling me that distance from the matter and time for reflection will tell me what to do.

Any thoughts on the matter?

Thanks to all! Have a good weekend!

 

[DirkGrave]

In order to have a deeper understanding of the situation I have followed up with several questions, the first one might not have been ideal and I suppose it absolutely fits the result I got.

Will her and I get a second chance to do things right?

Hexagram 4

What role will she play in my future?

Hexagram 52.6 changing to Hexagram 15

How should I proceed in regards to her?

Hexagram 17.3.4 to Hexagram 63

I'd appreciate any of your views.

Thanks!

 

[moss elk]

Hi Dirk,

I see this series of readings as not indicating a likely relationship continuance here.

I asked Yi what can I do to rekindle our love? 20 UNCHANGING.

You'll need to go see before you decide how you should act, don't assume that you will be able to accomplish anything.
(what you see may dissuade you, ie. maybe you'll see her dating someone else, or just wanting to be left alone?)

Will her and I get a second chance to do things right? Hexagram 4

Have you asked variants of this question already? (or, what does the previous reading say?)

What role will she play in my future?
Hexagram 52.6 changing to Hexagram 15

You may want to stop thinking about her.

How should I proceed in regards to her?
17.3.4 to Hexagram 63

The Following (relationship) is Already Complete, Over, Finito.

I know this is not what you wanted to hear,
but that is what I see.

 

[DirkGrave]

Yeah I just did not want to completely write this off in the future. As I said, she said there is room for feelings to change in the future, right now it just did not work out because circumstances were against us, we both went into this with very high hopes very quick. But thank you for your input Moss Elk, most appreciated.

 

[DirkGrave]

No other interpretations anyone?

 

[sylvia1ching]

DirkGrave

You can ask the question several different ways to bring clarity to your answer. The sages during the time of King Wen etc asked the same question several different ways before they advised the ruler. I am often less enthusiastic of unchanging results...probably because I am naïve.

 

[sylvia1ching]

Ignore my previous comment... I see you did just that

QUESTION: What role will she play in my future?

HEX 52: KEEPING STILL
The idea of keeping still is from the strong top line followed by two yielding lines and doubled. This is rest as the two yielding lines pull down and the strong line pulls up. It is the idea that things come to a natural resting point. This is not much different from the first hexagram that was unchanging HEX 20. Contemplation suggests a moment of pause before one takes action. With the double KEN-mountain/keeping still the YI response is to come to a rest and be still.

HEX 52 is about quieting the heart. It is the one thing the I Ching recognizes as being difficult to handle...the emotions that the heart brings. It is no wonder it takes double KEEPING STILL to make the heart rest. It suggests to me that it is imperative to quiet your heart by quieting your mind. In fact in Wilhelm's translation yoga is the suggested way to make the heart quiet.

THE JUDGEMENT
KEEPING STILL. Keeping his back still
So he no longer feels his body.
He goes into the courtyard
And does not see his people.
No blame.

Keeping still is not allowing all the frenzy of "what if" overwhelm you. It is also a position that can lead to either increase or decrease. Image a sound wave where the peaks are the valleys are posits of rest that can lead to an upward or downward trend. That is where you are. In order to move forward correctly you must first quiet your ego. Let go of the concern or anxiety around loss. When you have quieted your ego you can then make a decision or motion in the right direction. You are no longer driven by the frenetic energy of the heart that can spin you many ways. You are now at a deeper awareness that allows you to make a decision based on what is in your best interest. "Whoever acts from these deep levels makes no mistakes."

IMAGE
Mountains standing close together:
The image of KEEPING STILL.
Thus the superior man
Does not permit his thoughts
To go beyond his situation.

Stay focused on what you can do right now. "The heart thinks constantly" Wilhelm. This hexagram is about you and how you can influence your future. As for her participation I do not see it in here. It is as if the answer is to allow you to find calm because right now you are so concerned for the relationship that you are not clear. The YI's response is for you to ground yourself first. It also suggests that it is not time to see so far in the future. You must be okay first.

I am not sure if that makes sense but that is what I see. I do not see her at all right now.

Line 52.6
Nine at the top means:
Noblehearted keeping still.
Good fortune.

This hexagram is about calming you. It is not necessarily the time to predict her role. My interpretation is that as you find peace and tranquility. Once you have achieve a state of calm with in you it will project out into all parts of your life. This question is about your influence on what is possible. It is almost as if there is a certain amount of unrest and before anything can happen you must quiet the frenzy.

HEX 15: MODESTY
Modesty is about balance. Making fullness empty and make full what is modest...i.e. let go of the things that are extraneous or unnecessary so that you can allow modesty to fill up that which has been emptied.

It is almost as if there is too much focus on this relationship that you are not finding balance in your life. It simply does not include her at this time. It is about you finding balance and clarity for YOU.

I am happy to be wrong. I do not see her in your immediate future. You get to take care of yourself first.

 

[sylvia1ching]

QUESTION: How should I proceed in regards to her?

HEX 17: FOLLOWING

This hexagram has TUI-Joyous Lake/youngest daughter above CHEN-Arousing Thunder/eldest son. Joyous Movement. This is important...by allowing her to lead you will be followed. It is in the consideration that she does not feel like she is expected to follow. Let go of the control and she will allow you to lead.

Just like the previous question somehow it feels as if you need the safety of knowing what is going to happen. It is almost as if you have a tight reign on her and it causes issue...If am wrong let me know...I keep this message like that.

THE JUDGEMENT
Following has supreme success.
Perseverance furthers. No blame.

Again the same message... in order for you to lead or to have a following you must learn how to adapt oneself to her personality, to changes, to the differences. Learn to meet her where is at without judgement or control. You get to learn how to serve so that you can lead. The warning is that you cannot force or trick someone into following you or loving you. These things must come naturally and from a place of authenticity. Adaptation is the message...adapt yourself to the situation etc.

In order for you to have her to want to follow you, you must be consistent in doing the right thing. It must come from a place of authenticity.

THE IMAGE
Thunder in the middle of the lake:
The image of FOLLOWING.
Thus the superior man at nightfall
Goes indoors for rest and recuperation.

ADAPTATION IS THE MESSAGE. TUI above CHEN...so the image is of the thunder below or in the middle of the lake. This is during autumn where the earth absorbs all energy of CHEN in for CHEN to rest. The time of thunder is now past and it is time for rest and recuperation.

There comes a time when you must relinquish and allow yourself to rest, to let go, to stop. In this way you will avoid mistakes. It gives you time to contemplate and gather your thoughts. Again REST like HEX 52.

Line 3:
Six in the third place means:
If one clings to the strong man,
One loses the little boy.
Through following one finds what one seeks.
It furthers one to be persevering.

Again this is about letting go. I keep reading into the hexagram that your grip is too tight and you are not holding on for the right reasons. Once you understand what ARE the right reasons you will let go and relinquish what is superficial because it benefits your overall development. "(You) must know what (you) want and not be led astray by momentary inclinations." Wilhelm

Line 4:
Nine in the fourth place means:
Following creates success.
Perseverance brings misfortune.
To go one's way with sincerity brings clarity.
How could there be blame in this?

The message is that you must let go of the ego. Again the ego is driving you. You cannot achieve a sincere situation if you manipulate people into doing what you want or following you. They are not sincere and it is not real for you. Also if you accustomed to that kind of ego stroking then it is imperative for you to have sycophants around you. it is false. By freeing yourself of you ego you will find clarity. This allows you to see through the BS people tell you.

I apologize but the resulting hexagram is filled with this idea that your relationship is not being lead or followed from a position authenticity. Is it because of who you are that you are surrounded by insincere people? Are you insincere and require to drive everything? Are you someone that needs to control everything? Who are you being such that for both questions the ego is the main concern. Both in HEX 52 and HEX 17 reference the ego and quieting its influence.

HEX 63: AFTER COMPLETION
This is the perfect hexagram. All strong lines are in odd positions and all yielding lines are in even positions. The idea of perfection and how to maintain perfection. The triagram KAN-water is above LI-fire. Fire and water are in constant conflict it is only in this hexagram that a perfect balance is created. The caveat it takes much to maintain this balance AND it takes very little for it to move from organized to chaos.

Given that all the shifts are acknowledged in HEX 17 the results is a state of perfection that is very difficult to maintain. It is in the small things that this success can be maintained.

It gives me the impression that once you have adapted and calmed the ego in order to move forward everything you do will be scrutinized. If you want to build a relationship going forward you have to be very consistent.

This is one of the most harsh interpretations I have ever done. I am not being judgemental it is what it says. If this makes absolutely no sense then ignore it.

 

[DirkGrave]

sylvia1ching. First of all thank you very much for your time.

Everything you seem to be reading in there is so accurate it's scary. What brought us to this situation was me not being emotionally ready to be the support system she needed me to be. The first month of the relationship was idyllic and it seemed like it was destined to be. As soon as she wanted to start taking things just a little slower, which in her case meant not talking for hours and hours a day and becoming dependent on each other, I started to panic and needed constant reassurance that everything between us will be ok and it will work. That pushing that she did warn me against for the entire month that followed is what has ultimately made her decide that this is broken and we need to be apart, that this is not working anymore and I managed to make her not see me with the same eyes anymore.

I know that the mistake was being too caught up in thinking about the relationship up to a point where I actually forgot to be IN IT. I should have had the confidence in us that she asked me over and over to have and this being long distance for now did not exactly help. She is going through a rough time in many aspects and that is what leads me to think that even if we are the right people for each other, the timing could not have been more unfortunate.

The first time I asked the I Ching about this I got 37.5.6 to 36 and the question was: What does my future look like with her, will we get a second chance to do this right?

I suppose right now I need to work on myself and implement the necessary changes I have postponed for way too long that make me fall in the same pattern with relationships that are then ultimately doomed to fail. I would hate to think that there is absolutely no chance to be able to get to a good place with her where distance and insecurity will not be an issue anymore.

Again, thank you immensely for taking the time to interpret the reading, I read it over and over and it was extremely illuminating.

 

[pooja123]

Hex 20 line 5 says it all. Contemplate and improve yourself. Be emotionally available. Also do not let a third person interfere. Hex 20 under wen wang gua method. Has two females. Two males. Two commitment lines. In other words both of you may have other options or love interests (rivals). The first commitment line or marriage line has a hidden child line. Previous relationship produced a child. Under the day of reading the female lines' Wood rabbit element represents love star. The love star is badly effected by the metal month. November has water element(strong emotions) to support her. Water feeds wood. Try again in November. The love Star is strongest towards end of November (21st onwards).

 

[moss elk]

The answer I got was Hexagram 20 UNCHANGING.

Hex 20 line 5 says it all.

He did not receive Line 5.

 

[pooja123]

His line of action and commitment line under wen wang gua falls under line 4 and 5. Line 5 is male fire snake with a brother element hiding behind him. This brother/sibling has strong bond with this male. If the hex is unchanged, I would read all the lines, especially line 5, because it is the strongest line amongst all. Line 5 usually has the solution. Since line 2 (female) and line 5(male) are usually used to represent the condition of the relationship under Wen Wang Gua, I looked at his line 5 to get the solution or rather in his case he already chose his action to nurture and be available. To fix his attitude towards the relationship (line 5).The querent probably decided on this before he cast the reading.

 

[pooja123]

The brother element (metal monkey) hiding behind the male fire snake also represents a strong intention or actions. Current intention or actions falls on line 5 hex 20. Which is why I chose the line 5 since it has the brother (action) line. If this line changed, it corresponds to line 5 hex 23-a string of fish. Which means they break up because both felt there are plenty of fish out there. Luckily it didn't change....

 

[DirkGrave]

At the time I am aware that I need to work on myself and leave some space between us, perhaps not be in touch for a while, couple of months, so we can both process this and get over it. My plan was to write a lengthy, honest yet funny letter, describing where I have been wrong, how things could be different and basically asking to just start from scratch, not specifically in terms of a romantic relationship but just to leave it behind us, start anew and see what happens and where it goes. Every defining moment in our relationship seems to be connected to live music, we met in a festival and two years later we confessed our feelings for each other in a concert too so I was going to include a ticket to a concert in that letter, a concert I know she is very much looking forward to and what better way to try and start over then that occasion.

I asked the I Ching if this plan with the letter in December is a good idea and I got 21.4 to 27

 

[DirkGrave]

Finally, if me actually being in Belfast, relatively close to her, will give way for her to slowly come closer again since distance is not an issue anymore. The result was 26.6 to 11

 

[DirkGrave]

Any help with those last two castings good people?

 

[sylvia1ching]

QUESTION: Will Dirk be able so salvage his relationship with his girlfriend, given he experienced himself as being overwhelming? If it is possible, what will take from him and who does he get to be to create the relationship that works for the both of them? How to proceed?
The resulting hexagrams are the following:
HEXAGRAM 63.3.5: AFTER COMPLETION CHANGES TO HEXAGRAM 24: RETURN/TURNING POINT
HEXAGRAM 63: AFTER COMPLETION
This hexagram is the perfect hexagram. It has strong lines in the odd line position and yielding lines in the even line positions. It almost like being perfect. It so perfect that any small movement could create chaos or disorder. This hexagram represents a society that has more or less peaked or has reached its maximum effectiveness. Everything is systemized and comfortable.
KAN – THE ABYSMAL WATER ABOVE: movement is down/middle son/north/winter
LI – THE CLINGING FIRE: movement is up/middle daughter/south/summer

The is analogous to HEXAGRAM 11: PEACE. KUN over CHIEN: The movements of the two triagrams allow the top triagram KAN/KUN to move down and LI/CHIEN to move up. In this way they pass one another and correspond allowing there to be communication and resolution. Like HEXAGRAM 11: PEACE, HEXAGRAM 63: AFTER COMPLETION creates a climatic and ideal time that requires considerate and contentious decisions to maintain balance and in the case of PEACE it takes deliberate and contentious effort to maintain PEACE so that things do not quickly move to STANDSTILL.

THE JUDGEMENT
AFTER COMPLETION. Success in small matters.
Perseverance furthers.
At the beginning good fortune,
At the end disorder.

Like your experience with your girlfriend, there was good fortune at the beginning but at the end disorder. It is as if you sabotaged your relationship. You are moving along in this relationship and then suddenly you were like … OMG! This is too perfect! And you began to undermine yourself. It seems you started to tell yourself you did not deserve this.

Maintaining the right attitude, allow things to progress naturally and pay attention to the subtleties and details without obsessing. At the same time, it is important to be alert, present, and authentic so that course corrections can be made. For things to progress naturally is to not apply unnecessary pressure or expectations while being connected and present. It is important to not create an air of indifference. BE NATURAL and work on calming the erratic and frenetic energy that comes with uncertainty.

“Such indifference is the root of all evil.” (Wilhelm, 1997,254)

Indifference to history, to ignore history and what the past has created is being indifferent to the future.
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat.” George Santayana

“Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.” Winston Churchill

THE IMAGE
Water over Fire: the image of the condition
In AFTER COMPLETION.
Thus the superior man
Takes the thought of misfortune
And arms himself against it in advance

KAN-Water/Middle Son over LI-Fire/Middle Daughter the movements of the two are opposite.
KAN -water flows down LI – Fire flames up

Water over Fire is the image of a pot of water hanging over a fire. Fire and water can create steam and this is done by balancing the energy of the fire with the volume of water in the pot. Steam is an effective form of energy that can drive progress. The caveat is… If the fire has too much heat it can cause the water to evaporate and if the water is too much it can boil over and extinguish the fire.

KAN-LI are opposite in movement, in fluid, nature, heart … KAN-north, winter – LI-south, summer, spirit..

The conflict that exists it appears exist within you. It is important for you to find balance in what the heart is telling you and how you respond to it. KAN represents the heart or “the soul locked up within the body.” (Wilhelm, 1997, p 115). When fire is used to heat the water and create steam it releases the spirit or the energy of steam…

Line 3:
Nine in the third place means:
The Illustrious Ancestor
Disciplines the Devil County.
After three years he conquers it.
Inferior people must not be employed.

This line describes a situation where one is at conflict with opposing forces be it people, our belief about a given situation, or our own emotions. You must be able to give credit to those emotions or thoughts or people who are worthy of your effort.

As it applies to your relationship, I would say that you need to be clear that this is what you really want and that she is capable of returning the affection. Be realistic with whom your are dealing with. It is possible that her inability to have a relationship with you has nothing to do with you but perhaps it is her circumstances that are causing issue.




Line 5:
Nine in the fifth place means:
The neighbor in the east who slaughters an ox
Does not attain as much real happiness
As the neighbor in the west
With his small offerings

This suggests to me that it is not the grandeur of the gesture or the effort but its effectiveness in its ability to create satisfaction, joy, and possibility. Another way of thinking of it, is that it is not always what we say or do that speaks to someone but who we are being. Who do you get to be, authentically, such that she can see into your heart without the distractions of stuff. Be sincere, be yourself, quiet the heart and allow yourself to rest in the fact that you are the best you can be.

The only real things you can do in order to salvage this relationship is
Recognize the situation for what it is . It is possible the relationship cannot salvage it because of her circumstances.
To give it a chance after your past experience, you get to be relaxed and confident in who you are and project that out. It is only through this quiet, grounded way of being that you will attract her to you. She sounds as if she is having some issues and thus more uncertain energy directed at her only causes her to feel more uneasy. So be the man you know you are and find your foundation and rest on that.

HEXAGRAM 24: RETURN/TURNING POINT

KUN- The Receptive Earth above CHEN-The Arousing Thunder
1 light line (line 1) following 5 dark lines (lines 2,3,4,5,6)

This represents a turning point or return of the light.
As it applies to you it is the time where you can see things more clearly. What was has now passed and you see things in a new light.

THE JUDGEMENT
RETURN. Success.
Going out and coming in without error.
Friends come without blame.
To and from goes the way.
On the seventh day comes return.
It furthers one to have somewhere to go.

The situation between you and your girlfriend resulted it a breakdown of the relationship leaving you uncertain on how to go forward. Given that you are able to recognize her circumstances for what they are and shift your uncertainty in yourself to certainty in who you are. This is a time of transformation. Clarity and awareness is heightened. You are no longer a slave to what happened in the past but a active participant in what you can make possible in your future.

RETURN is a function of the time as it progresses. Time is reflected in the changing of the season, the change from day to night, etc. In life we cycle through many issues. The hope that as we process these issues that we cycle from the uncertainty to what is certain. To be certain is to be confident in what you can do and what you can control.

THE IMAGE
Thunder within the earth:
The image of THE TURNING POINT.
Thus the kings of antiquity closed the passes
At the time of the solstice.
Merchants and strangers did not go about,
And the ruler
Did not travel through the provinces.

During the time when the darkness is prevalent, travel and business was subdued. It represents a time of rest. During the fall CHEN returns to the earth, going underground, where it rests and recuperates until the time of Spring. RETURN is towards end of this time of rest, the winter solstice represents this time because the longest night of the year has passed and now the days are becoming longer and the nights shorter. It is not quite time for CHEN to arouse life again but it is at the very beginning.

1997, Wilhelm, describes this time as anytime where there is a moment of recuperation, a time of adjustment, careful consideration, give it space and rest and not to hurry into change so quickly..

As it applies to you and how to approach your girlfriend, Wilhelm, 1997 captures it best with following description:
"the return of understanding after an estrangement: everything must be treated tenderly and with care at the beginning, so that return may lead to flowering."

Summary:

HEX 63 describes the idea of "ideal" and how easy it is to take the ideal relationship and knock it off balance. The message for you is to be patient with yourself as well as she. Recognize that her circumstances may get in the way and it has nothing to do with you. Make small gestures and allow for them to be received. What gets to come across is confidence, patience, awareness, ... If she is having some difficulties support her in a way that she experiences you as being authentic and not needy.

HEX 24 describes a situation that is changing for the better. This is a time of transformation. You get to actively create your transformation by taking it slow, being in confident in that whatever happens you are coming from a place of authenticity, allow for understanding to be received.

If the loves is there so is the possibility. Given the circumstances and results you get to hold yourself accountable where you can and be supportive of her when she needs it. Most importantly be yourself.

 

[sylvia1ching]

Dirkgrave,

My experience of you is that you are asking the same question expecting something to change. I think you have gotten the information you need. I can see it as time has passed from the initial readings HEX 52-HEX 15 and HEX 17 - HEX 63.. now there is HEX 63 - 24. It has the potential to change from what was to a turning point but all of this depends on you. That is what the Yi is telling you. It is cannot nor will not tell you an absolute answer. It does not know fate. Fate is predetermined. The I Ching is based on free will. HEX 63-HEX 24 is giving you great information. The answer is based in being responsible for your life and actions.

All i hear from you is ME ME ME ME ME ...

The question you may want to ponder .. How may I best support her through this difficult time she is having? Who do I get to be in order that she may be in a better place? What will it take from me to create an environment of safety, love, and possibility for her?

If you want to ask an outward focused question ...