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How do you interpret when the hex and changing lines are contradictory?

S

seeker

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I recently got hex 5 changing at lines 5 and 6. I interpret hex 5 to be about waiting for the right moment. Line 5 seems to be saying to get out and join with others, which might refer to the person I asked about or other people, but line line 6 seems to be about staying inside and waiting for people to come to me. These seem to be diametrically opposed.

In some Tarot spreads, certain cards represent past, present or future events. Should I read the changing lines as a progression, first follow line 5, moving into line 6 later on, or is there another way to read this??? I've had this happen before, and I usually just ask clarifying questions, but I thought it was about time I learned to read these types of responses by themselves.
 

void

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To me these lines don't seem too contradictory - overall the message as i would see it is...
line 5 - relax, take some time just to enjoy, don't push
line 6 - in this relaxed yet quietly expectant mood, when new and unexpected things enter your life you are able to see and welcome them.

It isn't passive waiting or staying inside as such, but rather being relaxed enough to be receptive to opportunity when it comes. For now I'd take the counsel as chill out, have some fun, relax and don't dismiss any unusual offers etc out of hand (unexpected visitors)

Some say they would take the lines as a progression - others that they just show differing aspects of the situation..but I'm sure others can explain all that better than me....I just didn't take these lines as contradictory..quite a nice response to whatever the question was about
 
S

seeker

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Thanks for the quick response. I guess sometimes it depends on which interpretation you are looking at and how literal you take it. Karchers line 6 says get into your enclosed place, and I was taking that as staying at home, but I guess it could be an enclosed place mentally, as you said, just a more relaxed place.

And yes, a good response, but I am now trying to decide what to do. Instead of asking about a specific course of action, I changed my course of questioning and asked what action should I take and got 40 deliverance unchanging. I'm reading this as saying think about things carefully, figure out the situation, but don't take too long. It's time to act. First, am I reading this right, and second, does this refer to the first action I asked about or is it referring to some other action that needs to be done now, or does it matter as along as I act???
 

void

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I'm getting confused ?? Sounds like you are too ? Which action is first ???

Hmm for me 40 often has meant that the matter in question is not so complex as it appears, its resolution is well underway.

You maybe need to relax so that you can intuit what the Yi is saying to you here. I would have no way of knowing which action it refers to.

I often take 40 as an instruction to simplify - do what needs doing, don't hold onto the past. For me 40 often shows up when I really have no need to take any action at all, the problem is already solved (unbeknown to me at the time)It often has meant for me "if it ain't broke don't fix it" - leave it and the knot will unravel itself - if however you know something needs changing then do so without delay. So you just need to be clear whether the current situation requires definate action or whether you can just let it be.

Think about the usefulness and necessity of any action considered to change the situation. I don't see 40 as saying you must act, on the contrary it says only act if you really think it necessary, otherwise let things be.
 

jte

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Hi, Seeker -

Answering the more general question - for me the changing lines are usually (but not always) more important to the answer than the overall hex. For example, 12 and 54 are negative readings, but 12.6 and 54.5 are quite positive. 24 and 42 are positive, but 24.6 and 42.6 are quite bad.

There are exceptions - sometimes the answer turns out to be mostly in the main hex and the changing line is a "minor detail" within an overall situation. Other times the answer seems to be not in the lines themselves but in the transition - ie., which hex is changing into which other. However, these are not the normal case (for me).

To resolve the issues, I find, one must sit and carefully consider the question and the reading to come up with the interpretation that makes the most sense, given both.

- Jeff
 

megabbobby

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different lines refer to different levels of the situation,,,
--
like

line 1--lower self
line 2--ghetto street hustler self
line 3-- regular guy level
line 4-- prime minister level
line 5-- king level
line 6-- sage level

so sometimes you can apply different perspectives in the same hexagram,,,like it could affect your king level (line 5) one way...and your sage level(line 6) another
 
S

seeker

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Thanks for the help everyone. I think the problem is I am getting restless. I think Yi is telling me to wait and I am just tired of waiting. I want to move on with my life. But I guess this is just something I have to work through, take as it comes and not rush into anything. Waiting seems to be a pervasive theme throughout my readings. For the time being I am stuck in limboland, there doesn't seem to be much I can do on any front and it is very frustrating. But today I got wait for an important change, so maybe this cycle will come to an end soon. thanks again
 
C

candid

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Waiting is something we humans are generally not very equipped to do well, especially in this age of immediate gratification. Other animals have waiting capabilities built into their systems because they live in the present. We, on the other hand, can't resist the urge to poke, prompt and disturb what time isn't yet ready to deliver. We want our solutions, and we want them now! That's why Yi's answers more often hold us back than propel us forward.
 

calumet

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So many things in life are ambiguous; so many truths contain their own opposites. I think that "contradictory" readings can alert us to just this fact, by saying, Such-and-such is the situation, but bear in mind that ...

Lacking details of your situation, I can make only the wildest guess. But I'm wondering if the Yi isn't telling you about the overall situation--waiting for the right moment--but also pointing out that you needn't be utterly passive while you wait. Perhaps there are some small intermediate steps you can take. Perhaps while you wait, you should turn your attention to an entirely different matter that does require some immediate action on your part.
 

bradford_h

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To say that a hexagram and one of its lines might contradict each other is to make the assumption that each of them is saying one thing.
In fact every bit of text in the Yi says at least two things, as every bit of its advice presents a choice. I like to think of these as choces between attitudes. Often the "right choice" is only implied, as when a character is doing something really foolish and the opposite of this behavior is being recommended by implication.
It's the same with Tarot cards. If you think of any card as either good or bad you only have half of its meaning surrounded.
 
C

candid

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Choices, yes. The ?right? choice [in Yi's answer] just depends on the outcomes you desire.

Brad, 'a book of attitudes' is mostly how I see it too.

I've also found something else in this. Sometimes one line will represent something unchangeable; a fact. Another line may advise how to deal with it.

IE:
43.4, Wilhelm: If a man were to let himself be led like a sheep,
Remorse would disappear.
But if these words are heard
They won't be believed.

It won't be believed because it is a fact that it won't be believed. Nothing we can do will absolutely convince us, during this time.

Another example:

21.6 His neck is fastened in the wooden cangue,
So that his ears disappear.

We can try, but we're simply unable to hear the truth during this time.

But another line can help us to navigate through the time without running up on a reef. There?s no real contradiction.
 
S

seeker

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So, how about when the hexagrams contradict each other? For instance, I asked what happens if I do this today and got 6 changing to 58? Hex 6 and the 2 changing lines would seem to say bad idea, but 58 is positive. I've been reading this as a progression, like maybe the action is a bad idea today, but may be ok to try in the future. Is that the correct way to look at it?

I've also noticed different people read Yi differently, yet still get accurate readings. In Tarot you develope a relationship with the cards, and they often react to you a certain way because thats the way you always do it. For instance, the 3rd card in my spread may represent something different than in someone elses spread, but each will be accurate for the person reading. Or, while the cards do have generally accepted meanings, they can vary somewhat from reader to reader. As you use them, you and the cards adapt to each other; you sort of work out the rules together. Is Yi like that?
 

Sparhawk

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Seeker,

May I point you to do a search on this site for Hex 23 discussions? I'm sure it will shed some light on your questions of "apparent" contradictions.

As for: <BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

In Tarot you develope a relationship with the cards, and they often react to you a certain way because thats the way you always do it. For instance, the 3rd card in my spread may represent something different than in someone elses spread, but each will be accurate for the person reading.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMHO, symbols are symbols--be them Tarot cards, Hexagrams or a reading of cowry shells or the cracks on a tortoise shell--and as such they tickle everyone's brain in different ways. It is as personal as your favorite color. So, to answer your question: yes, the Yi can be like that. You must remember that is your mind doing the reading, not the Yi, which is only a conduit. People often reach the same conclusions following what appear to be very different paths.

Luis
 
C

candid

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Seeker,

It's like describing the weather. Some days are all cloudy. Some days are all sunny. And then some days are part clouds and part sun. The clouds do not contradict the sun, nor the sun the clouds. They exist together.
 
C

candid

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I have to correct myself. The hex. examples I used ?may be fact? in some cases, but not always for every reading. However, even if/when these are not facts, they can be extremely obstinate tendencies. Like Brad said, it?s mostly a matter of attitudes. Where an attitude can be changed, everything can be changed.
 

jte

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"Is that the correct way to look at it? "

"In Tarot you develope a relationship with the cards, and they often react to you a certain way because thats the way you always do it ... Is Yi like that? "

MHO, yes it pretty much works that way, although it can take a while for the personal style to really become established and (for whatever reasons) Yi tends to shake out of the pattern once in a while ...

- Jeff

- Jeff
 

jte

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blush.gif
 

pakua

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Sometimes when I get several moving lines, I can sense the truth of one of them, but not another.

I've been wondering, could it be that Yi will throw a line solely for the purpose of making me look at a relating hexagram? In other words, if I get two moving lines, maybe only one of them has meaning for me, and the other doesn't, but it was necessary in order to get the appropriate relating hex.

Does anyone think that that might be possible?
 

bradford_h

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Hi Pakua
This has been discussed several times recently.
Was the main subject in a recent Answers
Some search terms: multiple, Zhuxi, transitional
I personally favor the Transitional Hegagrams method for multiple changing lines.
 
D

demitramn

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<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

I've been wondering, could it be that Yi will throw a line solely for the purpose of making me look at a relating hexagram? In other words, if I get two moving lines, maybe only one of them has meaning for me, and the other doesn't, but it was necessary in order to get the appropriate relating hex.

Does anyone think that that might be possible?<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE> in my experience "where there's smoke there's fire". overlooking the perfect symmetry contained in our everyday living, and focusing as we do on the familiarity of our routines, we forget that magic is the dynamic force behind it all

Life need not arrange anything in a certain way to make anything "fit". this would likely throw the whole concept of synchronicity out of whack; and isn't the wonder of synchronicity that everything fits together because everything is naturally and intimatedly connected, making each and every manifestation purposeful and meaningful? especially so the small things we prefer to gloss over and label as insignificant. in this sense, all the moving lines will have some degree of significance and meaning for you. one can never fully know the level of importance of a given thing though unless one decides to make an effort and wave through the smoke-signals to the underlying fire
 
S

seeker

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Ok, so here is another example. I asked if I should wait before contacting someone and got 25 changing at 1,4 and 6. Both 1 and 4 seem to say go forward, but 6 seems to say not to??? 8 is about joining with others, but usually refers to a group.

When I asked if I should go ahead, I got 59 to 12. 59 is about clearing away obstacles, but 12 is stagnating, too many obstacles??? With the changing lines in this one I think its saying I should start preparing to contact this person, but its not quite time yet, but I'm not sure.

I've also noticed that it depends on which translation/interpretation you use. Sometimes the hexes/lines seem more contradictory in one interpretation than another.
 

heylise

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Seeker,

Look at this contradictory thing with a very simple example.
Line 1: You have your coat on. You will be warm.
Line 2: No boots on. You will catch a cold.

Do they contradict each other?
Read each line for the advice it contains:
Put your coat and your boots on ? warm, good fortune.
No coat, no boots - cold, bad fortune.

If a line will turrn out good or bad is your own doing, not a fixed fate.

LiSe
 
S

seeker

Guest
Well, this seems to have generated a lively discussion, and I appreciate all the help. So I wanted to add another insight I had.

I have been focusing on the questions themselves and the answers in direct relation only to the question I asked. But then I got a reading whose interpretation mentioned examining why I was asking the question. And another reading mentioned the husband leaves and the mother neglects the child. My husband is leaving, and there will be some adjustment, both for me and my daughter.

So it occurred to me that maybe sometimes you have to look at the answer in relation to things going on outside the question you asked. In this case, maybe it is saying, that first, when the time is right, I won't need to ask if the time is right, and second, that there are other things that need to be focused on and put in order first. The different lines affect different aspects of my life maybe. One line might refer directly to the question itself saying it is ok to proceed, but another line might be saying it would be better to wait because of other things going on. It's my choice, and neither is right or wrong, but there could be consequences, hence the lines I've been getting about humiliation and people talking about me.

My husband is moving on with his life, and I really want to move on with mine. But I think the bottom line is that I am not ready. I think in this case, the seemingly contradictory hexes and lines are choices/consequences. I can take choice A and it may or may not work out, but choice B is maybe asking me to consider how that choice will affect others and how I will feel about it in the long run. I think maybe the hexes and lines about isolation, obstacles and stagnation aren't about the question I asked, but maybe what I will create in my life if I move forward. In short, the relationship might work out fine, but is it worth it if I create havoc in other areas of my life in the process.
 
D

demitramn

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i sometimes find that when the lines contradict that the 'problem' lies in the nature of the question asked

for instance, someone recently posted a series of questions on the board covering it seemed, all the basis (like to get a 2nd part-time job? to go to school? get a better full-time job? etc) yet there was one question that i felt was not asked, and seemed to me to be relevant. perhaps one might have also asked "how might i better live within my present means?". in this particular instance it might have just led right back to all the other questions that the querent thought to ask but then again, may be not

now, this is not to say that some questions are right and some are wrong but that when we haven't considered all the possibilities, we are sometimes left scratching our heads about the many changing lines in a reading that may in fact be present as a way of alluding to those other possibilities. should those other possibilities be asked, Yi may deliver a less complicated and contradictory response as a result
 

jte

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"... the seemingly contradictory hexes and lines are choices/consequences ... maybe what I will create in my life if I move forward. In short, the relationship might work out fine, but is it worth it if I create havoc in other areas of my life in the process."

If this is the emergent understanding that is coming out of your readings, then, I think, your intuition is probably on the right track...

I also think you're getting lots of good advice from many sources above, which is great. Too bad it's coming in a difficult context for you. (On the other hand, sometimes things like this are catalysts - drastic changes accompanying, even necessary for, growth... Such is life at times...)

- Jeff
 

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