How important is it to follow the social distancing guidelines? 62.3-16?

[rosada]

I thought this was a spot on response!

62.3 “ If one is not extremely careful...”

 

[Trojina]

It's hard to believe there are people protesting against lockdown in the US - words fail me, the utter stupidity of people who see it as a violation of their 'rights' well yes everyone has a right to die - what do they imagine, that this isn't real ? Why/how are they so out of touch with reality ?

 

[Trojina]

Stupid arses want to go to work and abuse the nurses but who the f&^% do they think is going to look after them when they get the virus. It's not just old people it can affect anyone. Can they not get it into their thick heads that if they end up in intensive care the nurses they abuse will be their lifeline. What is it they don't understand I wonder ? Perhaps they just can't imagine anything more important than their rights. Yes they have the right to go back to work and mingle and kill hundreds of people - but they can't understand that.

 

[breakmov]

Hi rosada,

We are quarantined here in Portugal for almost 1 and a half months, for my part I take all the measures very seriously

"How important is it to follow the social distancing guidelines? 62.3-16?"


In a pandemic situation like this, where there is neither experience nor great capacity (Hex62) to deal with this threat, it becomes necessary to plan our actions (Hex16) in a very pragmatic, ground-to-ground way(Hex15). This "following(hex10) a plan" needs to be done with Inmost Sincerity (Hex61)

Cheers,

breakmov

 

[Olga Super Star]

'Not crossing over, he defends himself.
Someone is following behind and may kill him.
Pitfall.'

Could it be that if you stay behind the line trying to defend yourself from a threat which is supposed to come from ahead of you, you are struck by another threat from the back?

Maybe it's a reminder not to forget to sunbathe, to walk, to meet people even if at a distance and with masks, and care for your soul as well as your body.

I agree it's a spot on answer!

 

[becalm]

Stupid arses want to go to work and abuse the nurses but who the f&^% do they think is going to look after them when they get the virus. It's not just old people it can affect anyone. Can they not get it into their thick heads that if they end up in intensive care the nurses they abuse will be their lifeline. What is it they don't understand I wonder ? Perhaps they just can't imagine anything more important than their rights. Yes they have the right to go back to work and mingle and kill hundreds of people - but they can't understand that.

Problem is they haven't found a vaccination for Stupid disease

 

[rosada]

Hunh. You know, when I first read line 62.3 (Wilhelm's translation) I just glanced at it and thought, "If one is not extremely careful etc." obviously means that being extremely careful, i.e. sheltering-in-place, is essential for staying well. But now that we're discussing it and I read Olga's comments and look more closely at Hilary's words, I'm thinking maybe there is more to this:
"Not crossing over, he defends himself." So okay, not crossing over the doorway, staying isolated is a way of defending oneself from infection coming at us, but the line goes on to explain this defense can lead to problems too: "Someone following may strike him down. Pitfall." Hilary says, "Instead of moving on, you dig in and defend your chosen position. Perhaps it seems as if, in staying with what you know, you are defending your vision; after sll, you have no idea what you might encounter out in the wider world beyond your ramparts. So rather than completing the transition, you take your stand and convince yourself you can make it work. But it's unlikely that you can repel reality when it encroaches on all sides, there will surely be something you don't see that brings you down."

So is 62.3 a place where one ought to see the wider world but instead one is refusing to consider the big picture? Olga suggests this may be a reference to the need to do more than just stay inside, that perhaps it's saying one needs to be disciplined about taking care of ourselves not just physically but also spiritually. Certainly that makes sense. But I'm also wondering, however, if this line isn't referring to more than the problems of isolating? By that I mean the economic disaster being caused by the shut down. I'm not saying the line means people should not take precautions and stay inside, but it does seem to point out that there are real problems which if not addressed could very well make the cure worse than the cause. Perhaps in our 16. Enthusiasm to appropriately respond to the threat we need to pay more attention to all the 62. Details.

Again, I'm not advocating lifting the travel bans, I'm just saying it seems like quarantining is only a partial solution. The economic repercussions are going to be horrific and so far there seems to be a feeling on social media that only a cold-hearted cynic would even mention this. As a result we see Trump and his buddies empowered to vote each other huge sums because polite people would never talk about such things in these times. So I think more Attention to The Details of how the economy is to recover is what's required least we find "someone following strikes us down" and we do indeed get stabbed in the back.

 

[Olga Super Star]

Wonderful analysis, Rosada. Economic slump could well be what is striking us back (except for house prices plummeting over the next three years )

 

[moss elk]

It's hard to believe there are people protesting against lockdown in the US - words fail me, the utter stupidity of people who see it as a violation of their 'rights' well yes everyone has a right to die - what do they imagine, that this isn't real ? Why/how are they so out of touch with reality ?

Because for two months the t.rump and his propaganda network (sky & fox) have been saying the virus was a hoax and now the t.rump is on twitter encouraging them to protest and LIBERATE themselves.
Complete insanity.
That coupled with the long term, culturally accepted alcoholism the protesters engage in makes people angry and dumb.

And now he just suggested injecting disinfectant into human bodies to clean the virus... The maker of Lysol responded to that:

Lysol maker warns against internal use of disinfectants after Trump comments

A spokesperson for the cleaning product company said it had a responsibility to give accurate information to the public.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Liselle]

I posted this yesterday and then deleted it (was in a horrid mood, sorry) - the "liberation" stuff, while typically Trumpian, did have some nuance to it.

A few governors (of the tweeted states, for instance) imposed really drastic regulations over what items people are allowed to purchase, and people got upset about that. For instance if people wanted to go buy stuff to work in their yard or do home improvements during quarantine, they couldn't.

I understand their point, but also understand wanting to keep people out of stores, except for necessities. (In other words I'm glad I'm not a governor.)

 

[rosada]

My latest favorite go to expression:

"It's nuckin' futs!"

 

[Liselle]

And now he just suggested injecting disinfectant into human bodies to clean the virus... The maker of Lysol responded to that:

Omfg. That might be the dumbest thing he's ever said. I actually think he says things that aren't dumb, sometimes, but mfmsadkkdjfj.

 

[moss elk]

Omfg. That might be the dumbest thing he's ever said. I actually think he says things that aren't dumb, sometimes, but mfmsadkkdjfj.

I don't know, I think "I'm a very stable genius." is at least in the top five.
But truly once a certain level of madness is reached, it's best to grab the butterfly net or rubber mallet and call it a day, and
sort it out later.

Six months into his term,
"What do you mean?
Why can't we use nukes?"

Last year, "why don't we nuke the hurricane?"

But, if we survive this person,
we can leave it to Historians and school children for centuries to read about his madness. Now is the time for survival.

Take the virus very seriously.

The first person I know personally just died from covid, a Mr. A. who used to come visit his sister for dinner every week.
His niece, a nurse, told me that every bed in her hospitals ICU was filled.

 

[Olga Super Star]

I am very sorry for your loss, Mr Elk.

But I laughed a lot the rest of your post! Did he really give us all these pearls? I’m a very stable genius is my favourite

I think I love him. I mean isn’t that a wonderful expression of the most bizarre humanity? The only thing is, he got the wrong chair.

 

[moss elk]

Did he really give us all these pearls?

Yes.
Unfortunately, those are just a tiny fraction of the dung drops that have fallen from the lips of King Minus. The late night comedians broadcast about him every day and they can barely keep up. (Rosada has mentioned the children in cages, maybe even the thousands of reports of sexual assault by his immigration agents.) It would be very funny if he were just a character in a movie and people weren't dying because of his criminality, immorality, and incompetence.

The only thing is, he got the wrong chair.

I couldn't agree more.
He has had a solid gold toilet for years.

Why would Trump turn down a golden toilet? Because he already has one

The 18-karat loo offered to the US president by the Guggenheim is a modern masterpiece – as the 100,000 people who have used it can testify. The White House should plumb it in pronto

www.theguardian.com

 

[Olga Super Star]

Why don't we nuke the hurricane? is a real comedian line!!

Maybe he does have a comedian writing him these lines - or at least he is inspiring some.

When you say that life has no need to be enlarged..

 

[marybluesky]

I don't think anyone wants to go out in order to abuse the medical staff.

I can't say for the US, but where I live, some people HAVE to work and are under economical pressure. Some others have other necessary things to do. The virus is unknown and no one exactly knows to contain it effectively, so they order people not to leave homes. The lock-down has its own negative effects socially, psychologically and economically. That said, should we say the doctors want to abuse people by forcing the lock-down? Should we call the medical staff "stupid" for not finding any treatment for COVID-19?

P.S: I have been in lock-down myself for about 40 days.

 

[Trojina]

I don't think anyone wants to go out in order to abuse the medical staff.

Did you click the link in my post in blue. I wasn't talking about people who need to go out but the actual protesters in the US who have been abusing nurses. You misunderstood my post.

I will link again this is the link I posted, the blue bit in this sentence, that is who I was calling stupid arses not people who have to work.

This doesn't make sense to me I haven't said anywhere that people want to go out to abuse medical staff - the protesters were abusing medical staff in their march so why would you say 'I don't think anyone'...I'm talking about the protesters not 'anyone'.

I can't say for the US, but where I live, some people HAVE to work and are under economical pressure. Some others have other necessary things to do. The virus is unknown and no one exactly knows to contain it effectively, so they order people not to leave homes. The lock-down has its own negative effects socially, psychologically and economically. That said, should we say the doctors want to abuse people by forcing the lock-down? Should we call the medical staff "stupid" for not finding any treatment for COVID-19?

Obviously people have to go out, I have to go out for food and we can exercise in the UK and also many have to work in all sorts of area, retail, food production, post men, all those we call 'key workers' who we clap for each Thursday and to whom we are incredibly grateful. The blue bit in my initial post was a link to an article on protesters in the US....

I don't know how you could think I was saying whatever it is you are replying to....I think it may be to do with how I worded the link in the first post, maybe you didn't see it was a link

 

[Trojina]

A few governors (of the tweeted states, for instance) imposed really drastic regulations over what items people are allowed to purchase, and people got upset about that. For instance if people wanted to go buy stuff to work in their yard or do home improvements during quarantine, they couldn't

DIY shops (home improvements) and garden centres have been closed here for weeks, at least a month now. I really couldn't call that 'really drastic' or cause to get upset in the short term. It's no great sacrifice for a short time in a national emergency. They have just reopened the DIY stores ('do it yourself')here and there is some pressure for them to reopen the garden centres otherwise they will go down the pan and gardening is therapeutic but garden centres aren't open yet. Surely if there's a choice between time in intensive care on a ventilator or causing others to do so or spending some money for home improvements the choice is clear.

If death rates in UK soar again, which they may do, then a further closure might happen, I don't know. I know if they say DIY stores must close again I'd think that fine. Why should all their low paid staff go to work and risk their lives each day, think of how many people a shop assistant comes into contact with. It's not fair and they can carry the virus home to their families. So I think it's only reasonable to reopen when there is some confidence things are under control and social distancing is carefully adhered to with shields at the cash desks for the retail staff.

How serious it is depends on which state you are in. I suppose if there's no great threat people might resent lockdown more, the US is massive so I don't know which part is doing what there. I am appalled by what I have seen on the news/in the article about the protests in the US, it's unbelievable.


I don't know if people didn't see the link, Mary seems to have completely got the wrong end of the stick imagining I said people who go out to work are stupid - good God no, where would we be without them. But they put their lives on the line every day, literally, and so must not be made to suffer more by protesters such as in the link I posted.

 

[hilary]

The situation is worse for Americans than Europeans, because a) they can be fired right away, no job security b) there is no financial help from the government beyond a single cheque for $1200 (delayed so Trump could get his name printed on them all, naturally) and c) health insurance is a perk of employment. So abruptly people have no money and no health care, and there's nothing they can do about it.

I think some of the idiocy is just normal human reaction to complete insecurity and helplessness - rejecting it, denying the reality, seeking a sense of control. We all do it. So they get their sense of control by brandishing guns and believing the nurse standing in the way of their truck is an actor hired to promote a hoax virus as part of a conspiracy to implant microchips through vaccination, or whatever.

(Thought: it's maybe quite similar to someone with cancer who throws all their savings at a charlatan selling quackery, buying into their whole schtick about a conspiracy to suppress the cure, defending it to the last. Only now the chief charlatan is in the White House.)

As for the reading... I agree, it points to threats from more than one direction. One issue emerging here already is people at home having strokes or heart attacks and not calling an ambulance. The NHS has had to start promoting the message that they are still open.

 

[Liselle]

DIY shops (home improvements) and garden centres have been closed here for weeks, at least a month now. I really couldn't call that 'really drastic' or cause to get upset in the short term. It's no great sacrifice for a short time in a national emergency. They have just reopened the DIY stores ('do it yourself')here and there is some pressure for them to reopen the garden centres otherwise they will go down the pan and gardening is therapeutic but garden centres aren't open yet. Surely if there's a choice between time in intensive care on a ventilator or causing others to do so or spending some money for home improvements the choice is clear.

I can also see how *I* wasn't terribly clear - I agree with such places being closed. They're not essential. I specifically remember reading about how in some states particular aisles and sections of stores that were otherwise open, were ordered blocked off because what was in the aisles and sections weren't necessities. E.g. places like Walmart which have groceries and pharmaceuticals but also garden areas and such. I assume the reasons were (a) to keep customers down to the bare minimum, (b) to limit how much staff is needed, (c) to let available staff work on the most important things, (d) maybe if sections are closed staff doesn't have to constantly sanitize them...

I was imagining the other side to be "I have all this time on my hands, and yard work / home improvements that need doing: what a great combination! But wait - I'm not allowed to buy a shovel?!" People may not have considered that if it's a great idea for them, it's also a great idea for everyone else, and then everyone is in the stores buying paint. And of course in the minds of some idiot Americans who don't need much reason, it's a great excuse to make a fuss.

(Also should add I have no first-hand experience to do with this; it's just what I've heard about. I've set actual foot in one small store since this started, to buy one thing. Otherwise I've used grocery pickup (where the employee brings your order to your car).

The situation is worse for Americans than Europeans, because a) they can be fired right away, no job security b) there is no financial help from the government beyond a single cheque for $1200 (delayed so Trump could get his name printed on them all, naturally) and c) health insurance is a perk of employment. So abruptly people have no money and no health care, and there's nothing they can do about it.

Maybe not quite true. As far as I know, the government's spent trillions of dollars helping, beyond the $1200. There's beefed-up unemployment assistance available (I think it's $600 per week on top of what one's normal unemployment would be), there's the program for small businesses where they get money specifically to pay people in order to keep their staff intact... the goals seem to be (a) so every small business in America doesn't go bankrupt over this, (b) so they won't miss a beat when it's time to re-open.

Having said that, there's all kinds of things I don't know. I have no idea what happens with health insurance in various situations. Not everyone's employer provides insurance to begin with. I'd hope the small-business program covers employee insurance costs and not just their literal paycheck, but I don't know that detail either. I don't know what companies who aren't "small" are doing or supposed to do. Also I'm anxious to see what will be done for businesses who technically re-open on x date but whose customers voluntarily keep away.

But yes, if you're someone who all you're getting is $1200 in 2+ months that's a drop in the bucket.

 

[moss elk]

I'd hope the small-business program covers employee insurance costs and not just their literal paycheck, but I don't know that detail either.

The program is:
Small businesses can get loans.
Whatever portion of that loan that is dispersed to employees (pay, insurance, whatever) does not have to be paid back.
The rest is paid back at interest.

So, as usual, the banks make profit off of others misfortune. (like in the 2007 recession that was caused by the bankers.)

I am actually helping a relative apply for the loan today.

 

[Lavalamp]

Well some fact checks for you guys. Unemployed people in New York ate geting $1100 a week. $600 from the Feds until the end of July and $505 a week unemployment, Some people that $4420 a month is more than they were making at their previous jobs. Then there will be two payments of $1200 to grown ups and of $500 for each minor child. So a family of four with both parents unemployed will be getting something like ($3400 x2)+ ($8840 x2) = $24,480 for two months, then $ 17,680 for June and July.
That's a government subsidy for an unemployed family of 4 of $42,168 through the end of July. You're staring to talk some real money here. In August, the unemployment would fall to $4,020 a month for around 24 weeks.
A LOT of money for 4 months. But People will be in big trouble if the economy does not get back on track soon.
The small business loans are if you keep your employees on payroll, you don't have to pay it back. So rather than the Gov paying unemployment, the same money goes to keep people at their jobs. A pretty good idea.
If the banks weren't so dysfuntional. However the amount of money being distributed is exponentially more than the Small Business Administration distributed in the last 10 years. Exponentially more, in 3 weeks.
So mistakes have to be expected, they just need to be ironed out.
- LL

 

[hilary]

Socially distanced posts from this thread are here:

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/index.php?threads/hygiene-protocols-from-sr-social-distancing-thread.29941/