How should I proceed for both of us to be happy together?

[pink_panther]

I have been working the past few weeks on consulting the Iching in reconciling with my ex. The circumstances of the breakup were due to not being able to see eye to eye on certain things, and me feeling taken advantage of/for granted. Long story short, he wants to get married and move in together, which I would like, however he has two very vindictive teenage kids that are heavily influenced by the mother. So I am not eager to jump into that can of worms. When I suggested in the past, taking things slow and waiting till the kids were fully grown and out of the house to move in together he flipped out.

Prior to the breakup we saw/spoke to each other everyday and while I wanted more I don't feel more is possible right now while the kids are still living with him and while their mother is still so involved in their and his lives.

At first I just accepted that the relationship was over and was determined to move on. I have been focusing on myself and taking care of getting my life in order. However he keeps reaching out in subtle ways which makes me feel that he may want to reunite.

I understand his desire to solidify the relationship (he is older than me and says he doesn't want to keep wasting time) however I don't want to see myself in a situation where I am waiting hand and foot on his kids.

SO I asked Iching "How should I proceed in order for both of us to be happy together?" and got

56.5.6 -> 31

line 5 seems to be expressing the need for a sacrifice. In line 6 the subject first thinks he has things figured out and is laughing, but later finds himself mourning.

When I asked about the sacrifice that was needed, I get 13.3 -> 25.

You hold to unworthy allies. Is Iching telling me to that these people are unworthy to relate to? He is a good man, and treats me well. However the issue with the kids is a big problem. And of course blood is thicker than water.

I think line 25 is saying be "innocent" in the sense of don't judge his situation. I know he is in a tough situation and I understand his motives. However I have to look out for my well being as well.

Finally I ask, do we have the potential to be happy? and got

60.6 - > 61

I'm not sure how to interpret this. Does line 6 mean that I am being to rigid? Or that I need to stop trying to push this situation. I am also not sure of how to interpret hex 61. Does this mean I know deep down that this is a hopeless situation?



Sorry this is such a long post! Thank you if you took the time to read and respond. As always it is greatly appreciated.

-Pink Panther

 

[goddessliss]

Hi Pink Panther all the readings suggest to me that the difficulties are insurmountable with your present line of thought at this stage.
You have taken the position of being the 'outsider' and will continue to be treated as thus at least by his children.
What you think and feel is probably not wrong for you but the readings suggest to me that things will not improve.
Aside from the reading from my point of view I wouldn't take on other people's children unless a harmonious, happy relationship with them existed because no matter how lovely, kind or whatever positives one may be if the children have made up their mind not to embrace you in a positive way it just aint gonna work.
- Liss

 

[peter2610]

Hi there Pink Panther: 56,5,6>31 In response to your question on being happy together the I Ching is describing your overall situation and pointing out issues that require focussed attention. It is not telling you to reject this situation but it is pointing to difficulties. As a Wanderer you are facing a situation in which you must tread carefully as you fit into an established relationship structure. Sweeping moves are not appropriate at this stage, if you do try to find happiness together you need to spend considerable time reading the established dynamics and assessing how you can fit into this structure without attacking it. 5th yin is urging you to "shoot the pheasant" cut out your self-image of yourself in this situation with the children and approach it with an attitude of "no mind" - hold no assumptions of the children (even when they misbehave badly) but maintain an attitude of openness and simplicity. Gradually, as they sense your tolerance and acceptance, they should begin to trust and accept you.

 

[pink_panther]

Thank you both for the response.

Your description of the wanderer as the "outsider" is incredibly accurate. Unfortunately trying to come to this situation with "no mind" and allowing the kids to warm up to me is not possible. In the beginning I tried this and the kids loved me! However as soon as mama bear got a whiff that I was not a one-night stand/fling and that we were talking of marriage and moving in together she made it a point to turn the kids against me. Literally from one day to the next the kids went from being crazy about me to not being able to stand to see me in person. My ex thinks this is just a "phase" that will pass, but I don't want to live in an environment where I am openly despised and mistreated.

The last time they were at my house, I found out later that they had rummaged through my drawers and closets...looking for God knows what. I can't help but feel like they are searching for intel for their mother or just being nosy. I don't have anything to hide, but still....absolutely no boundaries. And their father is fearful of being the disciplinary because like I said they can be vindictive and destructive. At one point they broke a very expensive piece of equipment because they were angry at him for something or another. If they did that to their own father, imagine what they would do to me! LOL

It sucks because me and this man have alot of affinity together and have a beautiful relationship otherwise, but at this point in time it seems that there is not much that an be done to resolve the situation.

Thank you both for the advice/interpretation. I am learning alot at looking at these hexagrams in a new light from all the input I have been receiving on here.

-Pink

 

[moss elk]

I am not of the opinion that he is so great.
The kids learned the behaviour somewhere (feel angry? =destroy things) from dad?


"When I suggested in the past, taking things slow and waiting till the kids were fully grown and out of the house to move in together he flipped out."

Let's play with this sentence and see what comes up if we change a few words:

In the future, when I tell him that I am not comfortable with something he wants to do, he will flip out.

Play some more:
When someone goes against his will, he freaks out.

This is known as a tyrant, a toddler, an immature person.

 

[pink_panther]

You're right Moss Elk, I guess sometimes we choose to only see what we want to see. And you are right, that the kids learn this behavior from their parents. He is not physically violent (the mother is) but he can definitely be psychologically manipulative.

Thank you for the advice. I really needed to hear that.


-Pink Panther

 

[mirian]

Hi pink panther,

This is my personal experience with your readings:

"How should I proceed in order for both of us to be happy together?" and got

56.5.6 -> 31

Hex 56 - that represents you in an environment that your are not familiar with. Your man, his ex-wife and kids form a group, which members can relate to each other, live by their own rules, speak the same language, function within their own community. You are the outsider, who does not quite understand exactly how this little community operates. First, you tried to engage (line 6), tried to fit in and everything seemed to be all right. But no, not really, because you were still not part of it. That is when things went wrong (line 6).

In answer to your question - how to proceed? - your need to grasp how to work your way through this group (line 5), you need to understand that you are the one coming from outside and will have to find a way that it is not harmful to you but also that makes you accepted and part of it.

When I asked about the sacrifice that was needed, I get 13.3 -> 25.

Your question was based on a premise that a sacrifice is needed, but I don't quite see it this way. What I see is 13.3 saying that your relationship with him, his ex and kids is surrounded by mistrust from every corner. You don't trust them and they don't trust you either. So, understanding is getting harder and harder to achieve. With this state of affairs nothing can be built for long-term relationships.

Finally I ask, do we have the potential to be happy? and got

60.6 - > 61

The answer is yes, but.... First, you need to sort the issues raised on questions 1 and 2...

Then you get to question 3: 60.6 > 61 is all about agreements. I believe that this reading is saying that you can actually have a happy relationship BUT you have to work on the structure of the partnership itself. What is this partnership going to be about? What does it include? Clear well-defined roles for all those involved. Agreements have to be negotiated and all parts have to keep to it.

So, this might sound incredibly boring! You are thinking along the lines of having a loving, romantic, exciting relationship and all of a sudden I come up with all this partnership negotiation that looks like more of a contract But this is what this relationship involves. Whether or not you are prepared to do it, that is an entirely different question, entirely up to you.

As I said, this is what I have personally experienced, so hope that helps you in some way.:bows:

 

[sooo]

Based on your readings, I'd burn down that hut and move one. Besides, going through your personal things in your drawers is being violated and would never fly with me, no matter how much I'd like to be with this guy (or in my case, woman). And since they comes as a unit rather than single person, unless he sets his own family straight on respecting you and your space, I don't see a happy courtship as being possible.

Maybe this weak man thinks that you might straighten his family out, but that makes you the bad guy to his kids, and that's simply not a fair position to place you in. Besides, it's doubtful that could happen anyway.

You don't need to blame or accuse, which 56 advises against, but I'd beat those fiery feet out of that unruly mess. You may see the fun and happy stuff now, but there's only weeping for you in the long run. The limitations are too galling to get onto the same page with them.

This, of course, is just one man's interpretation.

 

[mirian]

Based on your readings, I'd burn down that hut and move one.

I love this bit of interpretation It is an option, indeed, isn't it? The truth is, this relationship comes as a package, it is "all inclusive", and will always be, regardless of passing of time and the kids getting older.

What I was trying to say to pink panther is that if she decides to proceed this relationship will require a lot of working around agreements (hexagram 60.6) to define who is who, who does what, responsibilities, and all the rest of it.

But it is great to hear a bloke saying - "just move on and leave this hassle behind" !

 

[moss elk]

Just noticed this:

"Finally I ask, do we have the potential to be happy?
and got 60.6 - > 61"
60.6 Bitter Limitations (on happiness), that shouldn't be kept up.

 

[sooo]

But it is great to hear a bloke saying - "just move on and leave this hassle behind" !

This bloke's spelling/grammar has become pretty bad during his 3am rambles.

 

[mirian]

This bloke's spelling/grammar has become pretty bad during his 3am rambles.

 

[mirian]

Just noticed this:

"Finally I ask, do we have the potential to be happy?
and got 60.6 - > 61"
60.6 Bitter Limitations (on happiness), that shouldn't be kept up.

Hi Moss,

I see where you are coming from. In my experience with this reading the limitations were the right thing to do and worked, eventually. But it was never an easy ride. As I tried to make clear in my post, there is a great deal of work involved, to establish boundaries, to negotiate the whole scope of the relationship itself, and I agree with you, if you look at different translations, the limitations and restrictions can indeed be too much to bear. So, pink panther has a lot to think about before deciding what to do.

 

[peter2610]

Hello Pink Panther and thanks for your reply to my earlier post.

The changing attitude produced in the kids by their mother is truly regrettable but not necessarily final. You seem to be very socially aware so anything I offer is a suggestion only. There are still two possible courses of action; one is to persevere with them as non-intrusively as possible, keeping a balanced and open attitude towards them, supported by a warm, loving relationship with your partner. If you can sustain this over time the kids will begin to realise that their mother's accusations just don't ring true. Try combining this with a trip to somewhere very exciting where they can take part in something truly exhilarating accompanied by you and Dad. If you give them an exciting day it will be very difficult for either of them to keep sustaining ill-will towards you - for a while at least.

 

[pink_panther]

Thank you very much to all of you for all the feedback. It has been incredibly helpful/insightful hearing all the different points of view and advice.

I agree that if I stick this out eventually the kids will see that their mother's spite towards me is unfounded. They are teenagers and are rebelling against her already but I guess the main thing right now is if I want to stick this hurricane out.

And Peter you are absolutely right. I feel that he doesn't have the gall to stand up to his ex or his kids and wants me there as a buffer to pick up the slack and be the disciplinarian, which again I refuse to do. One thing is helping around the house, with homework, dinner etc and one this is being the "bad guy" because I won't have my house run by two brats and his ex wife by proxy.

Consulting the Iching and speaking with the members of this wonderful board has brought alot of insight into the situation and for that I am truly grateful. ***THANK YOU ALL***

The more clearly I am looking at this the more I am moving in the direction of just letting this go and moving on. It's always hard moving on from a long term relationship, but I'm sure once I meet someone new who is more in sync with me, I won't think twice about my decision to move on.

But who knows how things will develop on their own. Either way I will definitely keep you guys posted! Thank you again so much for the feedback. I can't tell you have helpful this has been.

-Pink Panther