How to Behave with Her? 40uc

[marybluesky]

There is about someone I see everyday.
We tend to be very close at times, but there is a pattern in our relationship I can't understand: all of a sudden, she gives me a cold shoulder with no apparent reason. I used to try to talk about the issue for years, to ask about the reason, to explain how the sudden changes in her conduct hurt me, but she never opened up, instead got guarded more and more, and if I tried to tell I was upset, she started to blame me, saying that I wasn't a perfect person myself, and as a human, she didn't need to be perfect, either.

Examples of her behavior:

We are talking and laughing. Suddenly she stops reacting to my jokes, doesn't look at me anymore, and if I talk further, she doesn't engage like before. I repeat, I have been trying to understand if I did something wrong, and she didn't respond. She always refuses to say what the problem is.

Once we were going to watch a film. After about five minutes, without any explanation, she started to walk very fast, leaving me behind, not listening to me. She got distance as if we weren't together. I ran to reach her and ask what happened. She told I was walking to slowly deliberately! and she wanted to arrive to the cinema on time.

Once we were hanging out with others, and at some point she stopped talking to me. I tried to talk, engage in conversations, laugh, and she gave me the cold shoulder again and again. Later I learned she thought I ignored her "deliberately" when we were at a coffeeshop earlier that day, while I hadn't heard her talk at all!!!

There are many, many of these examples. It really hurts. Imagine, you are hanging out, in the middle of a hearty conversation, and suddenly the other person gets cold, doesn't look at you anymore, probably with a nasty smile on her lips. You don't know why, And you can never predict.

It makes me really angry, but I know the direct solution never works with her. She is more diplomatic than me, and turns the situation in her favor, like I'm the crazy one who overreacts. That's exactly what has happened during all these years when I tried to ask why.

During recent days, her behavior has been very erratic. We went to mountain, all was going on pretty well. At the night I proposed watching a movie and asked her if she wasn't too tired for it. She said no, it was OK. At first she was warm, then she stopped talking to me and reacting to the movie. I asked if it interested her, I would stop the movie otherwise, she said it was OK again, BUT maintained a stony face afterwards, without the slightest reaction on her face or body. Like a sculptor! I was very upset as I had started the night happily, had brought her tea, sweets and other things+ my lap top and she acted like this.

The other day I tried to remain distant, but she started the conversation gently we were happy in the evening, she got distant tomorrow, and the pattern repeated in short intervals (a couple of times a day).

I want to save myself and stop this. I don't know how this appears from outside, but for me, it's a real emotional torture; it always has been. Knowingly or unknowingly she's toying with my feelings.

I asked: How to behave with her? 40 uc: get rid of her, take a day break.

As she lives near me, we see each other everyday and have been close for a long time, I doubt I can get rid of her completely. 30.6> 55 To hold onto the main issue, and let go of others?

Any thoughts?

 

[Mylife]

I think 40 - the relief, indicates:
To relieve hardship, timing is important; if the time is not favorable, one must remain still.
The Decision indicates that if there is nowhere to go, returning will be propitious. On the other hand, if there is somewhere to go, acting immediately will bring good fortune. Beside timing, harmony between people is absolutely important.

In my view, if this is the right time you should take your distance. Harmony is the most important thing you need to have in life. you did your best to establish harmony now if you consider is the time, take distance.

30.6-55

30- The attribute of Li is brightness, which symbolizes intelligence and wisdom. Being embarrassed by unresolved problems feels like falling into darkness. Finding a solution is compared to a light that casts out the darkness. The preceding gua, Darkness, displays the way to deal with a difficult or dangerous condition. It teaches caution together with sincerity, trustfulness, and wholeheartedness. This gua, Brightness, sheds light upon the distinction between right and wrong. If one’s attitude is not sincere and wholehearted, one is not able to distinguish between what is appropriate and what is inappropriate.

30.6 - Nine at the top is at the uppermost place of the gua. It reaches the peak of Brightness. Eventually, one at this place becomes mature. A parable is used to explain the meaning of this gua, which says that one at this place should be able to see clearly the whole situation of one’s realm, like a king. He is firm and strong but kind and gentle, able to undertake an expedition to bring light to the country. The one in this place should also cultivate the virtue and wisdom of a superior person. “Kill the leader, capture the followers” is the key line of this gua. This is to say that one should deal with the root of a problem, not the minor problems.

55- A decline after extreme abundance is the law of Nature, like the waxing and waning of the moon. However, in human affairs we can delay the coming of decline by careful management. When a relationship or a business is in a period of abundance and prosperity, great caution should be taken to prevent disharmony and overdoing. People become used to the easy situation, but they may neglect the law of cause and effect.

This is what King Wen’s Decision refers to: “The king has reached this point. Do not worry. Be like the sun at noon.”
When a king has abundance, he should not worry about decline. To the contrary, he should share his abundance with his people without delay because the sun at noon does not last very long.

I think take your distance for now. Try to understand the real problem.

 

[moss elk]

I asked: How to behave with her? 40 uc: get rid of her, take a day break.

40 also says to forgive transgressions & pardon crimes.

As she lives near me, we see each other everyday and have been close for a long time, I doubt I can get rid of her completely. 30.6> 55 To hold onto the main issue, and let go of others?

Any thoughts?

Well, she is obviously getting mad at you,
AND refusing to talk about why.


30.6
What group is she part of that might explain her behavior?
a different religious organization?
A certain political party?
A different ethnic group?
A different fininacial level?
What kind of influence is on her
that could explain the behavior?
(Her family even?)

When rump was president,
This line was advice about interacting with his followers (dupes) who were only a bit rotten.

 

[marybluesky]

@moss elk she is a relative in fact, with a similar background as mine. I don't know if she belongs to any group.

 

[emilia_ro]

Hi,

I'm sorry you are going through this. I have also been close to people who behave in this way and know how exhausting it can be. In the end, each adult person is responsible for their own feelings, meaning that if there is something that is bothering her about you, she is the one responsible to tell you. Giving the cold shoulder when she is bothered by something that may have only happened in her mind is a very immature attitude and it will drain you completely if you continue accommodating to it.

Which brings us to Hexagram 40, "Liberation".

For me, the judgement of this hex indicates that if you have "nothing left to lose", it will benefit you to keep your distance. You may need to put this relationship on a balance, or even create a cons and pro list, and see if the good things it brings you actually weight more than the anxiety. It appears to me that you already know what you want to do.

The image says "Thunder and rain set in: the image of Deliverance. Thus the superior man pardons mistakes and forgives misdeeds.". This one is actually crystal clear. So whatever you choose to do, it's important that you do it in such a way that it will bring peace to your heart. Maybe keeping your distance now will prevent you from actually starting to resent her? On the other hand, if you choose to continue with the relationship, the I Ching is advising you to do it only if you are able to forgive the harm and the pain you have felt in the past.

30,6>55 Tells me a bit more of the story. I think there is a past history in this relationship, that you are aware of, that also contributes to creating this friction between you two. This woman clearly craves your attention and gets mad when she feels she's not receiving as much of it as she wants or "deserves". Do you know how this dynamic was created?

As Mylife indicated, everything in 30.6 is telling you you should go to the root of the problem, with clarity, try to understand why this is happening, and in what ways have you contributed to creating this reaction in her. This doesn't mean she's not responsible for her own feelings, but rather that it would benefit you greatly to understand this, so you can also adjust your own behaviours accordingly.

Hexagram 55, abundance, means for me the the place from where you are coming from now. Perhaps you met her a difficult time of your life, and you were able to grow and improve, while she got stuck in the past? Could she be the "cow" (an animal that needs caring and tending) that hex 30 talks about?

You now have all the emotional resources and stability to go deep into this relationship, understand the reasons, and take proper and just actions to solve it (even if this means distancing). I wish you the best of luck!

 

[Trojina]

Mary everything you describe makes it sound like this person is gaslighting and manipulating you. That might be conscious, it might be unconscious but either way the underlying theme here is manipulation isn't it? As in all manipulative behaviour the goal is for them to keep power and you to lose it. So this person is so crazily inconsistent you really don't know what's going on and the fact you just can't figure out what's going on means you're running around pretty confused and wondering about why they are doing what they are doing. If this is a constant theme it might help to do some Googling, I've found putting in (Google) behaviours I don't understand quite instructive, you soon see the patterns.

We tend to be very close at times, but there is a pattern in our relationship I can't understand: all of a sudden, she gives me a cold shoulder with no apparent reason. I used to try to talk about the issue for years, to ask about the reason, to explain how the sudden changes in her conduct hurt me, but she never opened up, instead got guarded more and more, and if I tried to tell I was upset, she started to blame me, saying that I wasn't a perfect person myself, and as a human, she didn't need to be perfect, either.

So she can upset you but she's never accountable and always plays the victim and then makes you feel bad. She won't talk about it because she's not interested in what you feel but in keeping her power over you. As long as you are kept guessing and needing she has power.

Narcissism?

It makes me really angry, but I know the direct solution never works with her. She is more diplomatic than me, and turns the situation in her favor, like I'm the crazy one who overreacts. That's exactly what has happened during all these years when I tried to ask why.

This kind of person won't accept open direct communication as they want to keep power through manipulation. They aren't interested in real communication and more importantly they don't care how you feel. You aren't alone in experiencing all this but it's really important you start to get wise to it since it's really harmful to you and you may always be left feeling you did something wrong which is exactly how she means you to feel because as long as you feel any sense of guilt, shame, she's got you where she wants you. Has she ever really been interested in how you feel?

I asked: How to behave with her? 40 uc: get rid of her, take a day break.

I think Yi's asking you 'what's this for? Is there a point to this ? Is there a point to continuing on with a person for you? Does it benefit you in any way? If so continue, if not then drop it. Also worth noticing if she is just like this with you or with everyone. That can help if you know she's just a weird character with everyone. Not much but it can give some perspective

I want to save myself and stop this. I don't know how this appears from outside, but for me, it's a real emotional torture; it always has been. Knowingly or unknowingly she's toying with my feelings.

So you can stop it any time you like says 40uc. I'd think you need a great deal of distance from her while you evaluate your feelings. From all you've said this is emotional manipulation, she's trying to make you insecure perhaps so that you need her? You don't.

As Mylife indicated, everything in 30.6 is telling you you should go to the root of the problem, with clarity, try to understand why this is happening, and in what ways have you contributed to creating this reaction in her. This doesn't mean she's not responsible for her own feelings, but rather that it would benefit you greatly to understand this, so you can also adjust your own behaviours accordingly.

Totally disagree as Mary did not 'create' this 'reaction' in her.

As she lives near me, we see each other everyday and have been close for a long time, I doubt I can get rid of her completely. 30.6> 55 To hold onto the main issue, and let go of others

'The king makes good use of marching out,
There is a triumph.
He executes the chief, the prisoners are not so loathsome.
Not a mistake.'

It's a good line showing actually you can deal with this, you can get rid of the main problem here. So what is the main problem? What do you want? What's your ideal outcome? Go for that. If you want nothing more to do with her have nothing more to do with her. If you'd like a more distanced relationship there's a way for that I guess although it doesn't sound ideal.


One thing you really don't want to do is try to understand/delve into reasons why she is such a manipulator because you already tried direct communication with her a number of times ..... and this looks like a prime narcissist and one gets nowhere with that approach with such a person. 30.6 is not saying you need to clear things up with her or anything like that, nor is it saying you need to get to 'the root' of it. That really wouldn't work, you tried it..you'd just get hurt more. This answer is about self assertion, it isn't at all about you trying to be more understanding, it certainly isn't about you thinking of how you 'created' it...it says 'the king makes use of marching out'...and there is 'triumph' . So Yi is almost urging you to be bold and quite forceful in delivering yourself from the main enemy, the main issue. How that would be in this instance I don't know. It could be you take the most upsetting behaviour of hers and refuse to accept it. So for example if you are walking together and she runs ahead of you in a huff don't run after her. If she suddenly goes cold in a conversation don't continue the conversation end it, go. Any time you are feeling pain with her stop, walk away, go..release yourself, you are not in bondage to her.


Your actual question was 'how to behave with her?'. 40 says if there's no profit in going ahead with something go back to your usual ways, don't dally. If she's being hurtful you leave. If she finds that hurtful tough because she doesn't ever seem to care how you feel

 

[moss elk]

I'd think you need a great deal of distance from her while you evaluate your feelings...

I appreciate where this is coming from,
And maybe it is correct?

but I can't help but notice that she didn't get hex 12 or 33 for the 1st reading.

 

[Trojina]

No, she's free to make a choice and a choice is definitely needed in 40. 40 is time to make a decision. It's liberation, time to get free, a positive move in the right direction.

I don't think you have to wait for 12 to think something is bad for you and I don't think 12 always says that anyway.

Why would anyone put up with this other than they got used to it/weren't free to leave or benefited/enjoyed it. I think the 40 emphasises the 'you are free to leave unless you have good reason not to'. In my experience one's life is so much better after losing people like this, you just never regret it. If there is part of the relationship she wants to keep then there needs to be clear and fairly quick decisions about what behaviour is and isn't acceptable to her.

 

[kestrelw1ngs]

Mary, I empathize with your situation. Reading from the outside the pattern is pretty obvious that there is a control/manipulation tactic at work, as Trojina has already pointed out. You have tried communication and are putting a fair amount of energy into caring for and looking out for her feelings which she is refusing to communicate. Or is unable to manage her projections and hurt feelings as with using the coffee shop slight as reason to treat you badly later. Using one hurt to justify another is a Neverending Cycle.

Having been there done that with a similar person...it is hard to accept but many people are simply not ready to openly communicate. One reason can be narcissism but it also can be a variety of psychological or cultural or experiential things that are just not going to change due to a good talk.

With the person in question in my life, I received hex 40 after a reuniting talk where they recommitted to me but said some very telling things such as "you're the best I can probably get" comparing me with other options and other phrases that led me to understand they were dissatisfied and forcing the commitment out of scarcity rather than choosing it with joy or freedom.

At the time I was hung up between interpreting 40 as "let it go and forgive them, forget it" and "let them go entirely." In the end I tried and failed to forgive. It was sad, and it hurt to know this person was unhappy and uncertain but trying to be loyal. I tried with no avail to bring up their hinted feelings and say I would rather we end it than be "settled for" but they would either take it as an attack on their words, or avoid it. After another year and a half of miserable back and forth and infidelity they admitted they had been stringing me along, should have been emotionally honest and ended it. At the time they simply lacked the maturity to do so and were not thinking of my feelings.

Narcissism or emotional immaturity, the point is...your situation may be different. But I'd offer my story as a caution not to mistake forgiving and moving on as opposite choices.

Thinking back on that hex 40 now I can see it as "release" of the truth. Allowing the choice to accept the situation and either say "that is good enough for me" or "I don't want this anymore."

If she is a relative that is tough. Perhaps you can't "get rid of" her but a separation to me seems inevitable in your words. Even if it is simply emotional.
30 also tends to in my life be a hexagram about attachment/bonds and the double meaning of "cleaving" - being bound to someone or splitting away to reveal the clarity/light/truth/fire.

All the best in dealing with this difficult situation

 

[kestrelw1ngs]

Hmmm looking back at 30.6 too....a heavy line. Making use of what is left, but making an executive decision, do you let heads roll or salvage a bit of grace in the situation?

Its up to you, but either way its an overburdened cast and something in you is likely asking for it to be finalized in some way.

Some connection in life simply have too much going on (55) to continue, they are at a zenith

 

[moss elk]

40 also says to forgive transgressions & pardon crimes.

there is an element of forgiveness to the followers in 30.6 as well.

 

[marybluesky]

Thanks every one.

I can see forgiveness in 40 but I am resentful and going further adds to it. The way she treats me without explaining why not only hurts, but affects my self-esteem, which leads to more anger. I can't go to the root of problem when she doesn't cooperate.

A healthy distance is needed in order to sort out my feelings and decide how to set strong boundaries. She's the type who can't bear with fights and direct confrontations, so has created her own way of showing anger.

One main mistake of mine has been going toward her after the fights through these years except for recent months when I changed my attitude. I also have craved for her confirmation too much, which she hardly ever gives me. A trap.

 

[Olga Super Star]

She might be jealous perhaps?

I've had a lot of times to do with people like that. They are insecure and want you to look for them, and they are usually a bit jealous and are afraid you can steal people's or life's attention.

Recently, that is after 40, I have started to let these people go instead of asking myself/them for explanations. After 40 you no longer need explanations except maybe from your partner. It's the good side of getting old I guess

 

[Liselle]

One main mistake of mine has been going toward her after the fights through these years except for recent months when I changed my attitude

Has that helped? Trojina laid it out very well in post #6 imo.

Also I think there's a fair amount of the Shadow and Ideal hexagrams in these readings. One of the things that ran through my head while reading is don't think this is your fault - it's her, not you. Except that is exactly 40's shadow, 25, "this is not yours."

Which I think is still partly true: she's being a jerk for no reason, you haven't provoked it. But then I got to Trojina's post and saw how maybe, in an unfair way, it is you in that you reward bad behavior a little. You give her attention and show you care. I don't know what's going on with her, psychologically, and maybe I could even work myself into feeling bad for her, but this is manifestly not good for you and you might need to be a little selfish for your own sake.

That's 40's Ideal 35. 35 can at times be kind of selfish, in its way. If 30 (35's Shadow and noticeably the primary hexagram of your second reading) is about caring for one's cows and trying to understand, 35 can be more about taking as much as you can. Most of the time 35 is a very good thing, being rewarded with gifts and resolving to make the most of them - this is commendable - but once in a while another side peeks out and this might be one of them. Breeding livestock to their maximum is beneficial in many ways but not really for the particular cows being bred.

So I agree in this case Yi's probably encouraging you to be more selfish and less nurturing, and/or don't let yourself be taken advantage of.

 

[Liselle]

I guess I think it's both advice to you and also a description of what's been happening. She's taken advantage of you, and now you need to be a little selfish.

 

[marybluesky]

Thanks Liselle.

I haven't encouraged her jerkish behavior a little bit; but too much. Too much. It has been a rotten pattern for a long time.

Last January after a cold-blowing phase on her part I wrote all the one-sided attention I gave to her in my notebook and decided to change my ways. I took distance. At first I was open to reconciliation but after having reunited two times just for being neglected again after a few hours, I stopped talking to her. It lasted several weeks, after which things improved.

But now that we are comfortable with each other again and spend more time together, the patterns are re-emerging.

By the way, I don't know why you mentioned hexagram 35 as I haven't received it in any cast.

 

[Liselle]

Just because 30 and 35 are each other's shadows, and that interplay stood out to me. You cast 40, and 35 is its Ideal. Then you cast 30, and 35 is its shadow. I think 40 is advice to free yourself and not feel obligated in any way, and 30-35 add to that I think.

People talked about 40's forgiveness aspect - maybe it's a "no hard feelings" sort of thing? Maybe she's not doing this on purpose as you wondered about. Nonetheless, look out for yourself. You're not obligated to her.