How to get him to leave me alone? 23uc

[heatwave]

I briefly dated a coworker and in no uncertain terms cut off all ties to the best of my ability months and months ago. He has not stopped pining and trying to make contract. It is unsettling. I first asked Yi what should I do about this? and received 1.1.3.4 > 59. I didn't know what to make of this outside of don't act and there is someone "dancing in the abyss." Startling image for what I am going through with this.

So I asked a more specific question... what can I do to get him to leave me alone forever? 23uc. Am I being told that there is nothing I can do? I just have to live with this? It all seems pretty bleak. This entire time I have taken the position of no contact. Even making polite eye contact when passing in the halls clearly gives him hope and makes him try even harder.

 

[moss elk]

Hi,

I've got the first reading,
the second.. maybe not.

So 1 says to be persevering.
(Don't stop)
and 59 is Scattering/Dispersing
(Scattering him away from you)

Don't stop scattering him away.
Nice how that goes along with what you already want.


The 23 is interesting, and it may require some thought.

So because it is unchanging,
I would look at what the Jun Zi is doing.
It is someone above giving to someone below (that prevents them from taking it from you)
Do you ever assist this coworker with things? or teach him? Did you act as an emotional support, counselor, or guide?
I'm just brainstorming...hmm.
Does this ring any bells for you?

But how in the world can these two messages be combined into a meaningful story? How could you keep scattering him away and give to him at the same time?


At the moment all I can offer is
the trick of rubbing day old fish, cheese, and onions. and garlic all over you, leaning in close and saying,
"Hi big boy, you want some of me?"

 

[Hujambo]

My impression on 23uc is split with him in your mind. Help him, but do not engage as though he is part of your life, your work, etc. just another unnamed fellow you help as part of your job, but you know him a little more, so you can help him with more refinement. in the ordinary course of doing your job, compassionate and distant. Release him from your thoughts. When I was young I had a ceremony for this involving archangel michael and cutting ties.

 

[Piscean]

Hey i'm a noob to the i ching so i can't offer elaborate understandings but...
I am a bit of a shadow psychology freak and even though you probably want a straight up answer, sometimes it can be fun to delve into the subconscious reasonings behind something


When i looked at 23 on the James DeKorne's website i saw this quote:
Whenever we go deep enough toward the core of a sub- personality, we find that the core -- which is some basic urge, or need -- is good. For practical purposes, this can be considered an absolute. No matter how many layers of distortion may surround it, the basic need, the basic motivation, is a good one -- and if it becomes twisted, it was because of not being able to express itself directly. The real core -- not what the sub- personality wants, but what it needs -- is good. A basic purpose of the coordination phase is to discover this central urge or need, to make it conscious, and to find acceptable ways in which it can be satisfied and fulfilled. And, provided we have sufficient understanding and skill, it can be satisfied -- if not fully, at least enough to maintain the process of growth.
James Vargiu -- Subpersonalities

As someone who is interested in divination you probably subscribe to the idea that this world is like a mirror, consciousness reflecting itself through form. The same of course applies to our psyche's. When for example we're told in childhood that a certain behaviour of ours is bad and we are made to feel shame for it, we'll suppress it into our subconscious.


When a particular need is not met, we'll exhibit behaviours and expressions that are negative in nature, until the light of consciousness is shone through where it is accepted and understood, and suddenly that negative behaviour now manifests itself in it's exhalted form. For example a person might be super intellectually argumentative where they simply get lost in dogma for whatever reason and it causes them to stop focusing on what's important. The exhalted expression of that behaviour might allow the same person to become a really good life coach who can outsmart his clients on their defeatist mentalities for example where now he helps improve people's lives as a result.


What happens as we grow older is that negative/suppressed part is seeking integration, so the universe lines us up with circumstances and people where we come face to face with those aspects to help us do this. They reflect our suppressed aspects.


You make note of how unsettling it is, well, that probably means you've struck gold in terms of coming to face with something subconscious


I mention this shadow stuff because of what is also said on the website about #23 Disintegration:


The inferior forces creep up from below like termites to undermine a solid foundation. The fifth line shows a gathering of forces for a potentially positive transformation, and the top line suggests the first stages of this transformation. The implication is that times of disintegration needn't always be regarded as negative, or a foregone conclusion. We still have the choice to alter conditions in our favor.


and


The idea is subtle -- it doesn't mean to indulge your weaknesses, but to monitor them encouragingly so that they may become transformed into positive forces.


Commenters above have also alluded to the same idea of how you can give to him without scattering him away, or being compassionate and distant.


To me these are all demonstrating this idea of exhaltation. The inferior forces creep up but then transform into something positive, but we do not allow the inferior forces to overtake us because it is true that they're inferior and negative so possibly damaging to you, but they require that encourage monitoring i.e. shining the light of consciousness so they transform. Basically you're witnessing a negative behaviour, but we are not to shun it because it actually needs encouragement to transform into it's exhalted form.


I think your job here is both outer and inner. On the outer, you are recognising this person as having a basic motivation that is seeking fulfilment through you, but as the quote on subpersonalities mentions, it is distorted and unhealthy i.e. he's being needy and attached, making you uncomfortable. What is the pure and healthy motivation that underlies it? On the inner level, do you recognise an aspect of yourself that has that same basic need, and have you at any point denied yourself it, have you in denying certain needs distorted their expression so that they come out in unhealthy ways the same way this man is doing with you, can you be compassionate towards yourself and him with by recognising such unmet needs. Sometimes certain unexhalted forms of expression just need to be seen with love and understanding, that encourages, allows those aspects of psyche to feel accepted, suddenly they release the need to express so loudly in any negative way, and brings transformation. I think the 'scattering' that is referred to with #23 is demonstrating the negative expression dissipating, while the positive form comes to take its place. The basic need of the suppressed aspect can now be met more directly and it ceases need to be a termite.


I know that probably leaves more questions to be answered in relation to your own subconscious aspects or even the guy but i hope this perspective helps

 

[radiofreewill]

Hi heatwave,

"What should I do about this?"
1.1.3.4 to 59 ~ As much as you can, avoid being seen by him.

From the Daniel Young i-Ching:

1. Active Force

When force is used in a responsible way and in a spirit of sacrifice the forecast is good.
(The energy and luck that you need to transform this situation is available.)

1. Force stays hidden and inactive.
(His fixation needs an object to grasp ~ be invisible ~ review your social media habits.)

3. The superior person is active when things are clear and cautious when they are not. This avoids problems.
(You are already doing this ~ keep it up.)

4. Jumping into action there are no counter-indications.
(The longer this goes on the jumpier you feel ~ respect the jumpiness ~ just don't let it drive you crazy?)
​

and

59. Scattering

Scattering is done in the spirit of sacrifice. The leader returns to the sacred center. It is auspicious to seek great objectives and move forward.
(What other employment opportunities do you have? Can you talk to recruiters? Are you networking? Now is a good time to get creative?)
​

"What can I do to get him to leave me alone forever?"
23uc ~ If you really want him to leave you alone forever, then you could ~ Split ~ leave the company.

Reviewing your two tosses together, sometimes it really is better to look for greener pastures, and let opportunity take you there? Hex 1 says that all the energy you need to make a successful change is available?

May the ninja force be with you!

 

[Trojina]

I briefly dated a coworker and in no uncertain terms cut off all ties to the best of my ability months and months ago. He has not stopped pining and trying to make contract. It is unsettling. I first asked Yi what should I do about this? and received 1.1.3.4 > 59. I didn't know what to make of this outside of don't act and there is someone "dancing in the abyss." Startling image for what I am going through with this.

So I asked a more specific question... what can I do to get him to leave me alone forever? 23uc. Am I being told that there is nothing I can do? I just have to live with this? It all seems pretty bleak. This entire time I have taken the position of no contact. Even making polite eye contact when passing in the halls clearly gives him hope and makes him try even harder.

How serious is it ? Can you tell how serious it is ? That does make a difference to how you deal with it - but I don't like the sound of it


If you go to work and he makes you feel uncomfortable by pursuing you and not taking 'no' for an answer then that is harassment in the workplace.

I think you need to be more proactive in dispersing this whole thing which also means seeking support. Make a note of incidents just in case he increases the pressure or gets more weird than he already is. Also do try and talk to someone at work about this in confidence. Ultimately it's affecting your life and you absolutely have the right to go to work each day without being harassed or indeed having to adjust your mind to his !


You ought not to have to think about him at all. I think 23uc here is perhaps suggesting you look to your support networks and don't underestimate how much this affects you.

You should never have to say 'how can I get him to leave me alone' he must leave you alone and that's the end of it. The longer it goes on the more you may internalise it and take responsibility for it which would not be helpful.


The thing with 59 is one loses all sense of boundaries and here that isn't a good thing so I think the hexagram 1 is a bit of a push to actively scatter him to the winds with no apology and with all the support you can muster. I think that's the hopeful answer


You see first you asked

I briefly dated a coworker and in no uncertain terms cut off all ties to the best of my ability months and months ago. He has not stopped pining and trying to make contract. It is unsettling. I first asked Yi what should I do about this? and received 1.1.3.4 > 59. I didn't know what to make of this outside of don't act and there is someone "dancing in the abyss." Startling image for what I am going through with this

...which is quite a lively picture of dispersal. Hexagram 1 can really push energy and initiative into the relating hexagram so yeah I think Yi is saying be a bit like a leaf blower. Rightnow the leaves are whirling around outside my window dispersing to heaven, the blue sky.


Then after that I think maybe your mood plummeted , perhaps a sense of hopelessness ? So I think the 23 could be saying 'yes this isn't good for you look for support'.

So I asked a more specific question... what can I do to get him to leave me alone forever? 23uc. Am I being told that there is nothing I can do? I just have to live with this? It all seems pretty bleak. This entire time I have taken the position of no contact. Even making polite eye contact when passing in the halls clearly gives him hope and makes him try even harder.

I wouldn't normally say 23uc is to do with looking for support but it can be looking to see how secure your foundations are.


I actually don't like the sound of this and find it a bit worrying that you are trying to cope with this by yourself. Remember it isn't you who need to change or adjust your mental attitude it's him, his responsibility to stop harassing you and if he won't perhaps you could go to your human resources manager or who ever is the right person to share your concerns with and if it goes on he would be the one to leave not you perhaps.

 

[heatwave]

Thank you all for this input. I’ve been vascilating between feeling empowered and panicked/hopeless. He doesn’t do anything at work that I could talk to HR about. It’s all very subtle. He moved to my neighborhood, hangs out at places he knows I liked to go for walks, tries to strike up conversation via text or in the break room, etc. even after I made it clear that I want to be left alone. All social media was blocked ages ago. My close coworker friends know, but people in general have a hard time picturing his behavior feeling creepy and threatening because he’s a “nice guy.”I am actively seeking a new job and my friend/coworker who is on his team offered to say something to him about it. Im considering letting her. In the meantime I’m looking forward to the day I have a new place to work. I’m still mulling over suggestions in this thread. My instincts have been to just continue to ignore it.

 

[heatwave]

Piscean does have a point about maybe my own internally avoidant issues, but it’s difficult to learn and grow when I feel this level of anxiety. I also have learned that giving him any interaction at all has been a mistake, so the idea of getting a new job for 23uc resonates more than helping him in some way.Apologies for the wall of text. I’m trying to post from my phone.

 

[Hujambo]

Absolutely heatwave! I've never had 23uc where the situation wasn't ended - a total separation and the only thing I could do to calm my emotions while this unfolded was to leave the story behind in my mind. Leaving it in the past and in that way restoring balance. Your intuition is a good guide. All the best to you I think this will not be an issue for you for long.

 

[Trojina]

He moved to my neighborhood, hangs out at places he knows I liked to go for walks, tries to strike up conversation via text or in the break room, etc. even after I made it clear that I want to be left alone. All social media was blocked ages ago. My close coworker friends know, but people in general have a hard time picturing his behavior feeling creepy and threatening because he’s a “nice guy.�I am actively seeking a new job and my friend/coworker who is on his team offered to say something to him about it. Im considering letting her. In the meantime I’m looking forward to the day I have a new place to work. I’m still mulling over suggestions in this thread. My instincts have been to just continue to ignore it.

Well if he moved to your neighbourhood, hangs out where you go for walks he's a stalker isn't he ? At least he is displaying stalker like behaviour in which case he's breaking the law I think - at least in the UK stalking is now taken seriously because it escalates. I had a friend who had a really bad time with it. She was even living with her boyfriend but this guy used to drive past her house all the time jump out at her on the street and he worked with her. It was horrible and she did nothing because at one point she had tried to help him and that's what triggered it all.

When I asked why she did nothing, not even tell her boyfriend, I think it was a mix of shame and fear that somehow prevented her. He'd actually got inside her head to the point where she was sort of unable to take action against him.


Of course there's a fine line between stalking and hanging around hoping to see someone BUT you have made it very clear you don't want to connect with him and he has ignored you and so is violating your privacy and your space.


Maybe do some research about what women do in these situations and what is the best way forward. There will be many others going through this who may be able to help.

If you think it's not so serious you could go on ignoring it but I think he's out of line and I really don't like the sound of what he's doing.

 

[heatwave]

Sorry for the delayed response. This past week has been very hectic with the holiday and visitors and to be perfectly honest I sometimes can't stand to think about this topic because it causes me such stress.

Trojina, what you say is my biggest fear in the situation. What your friend went through is terrifying and stories like that are definitely a part of my anxiety with this. But, like you said, there is a fine line. I really hope that I am still on the side of the line that is less threatening and don't feel like I want to take any official action right now.

I'm taking a lot of advice from this thread including to continue "scattering him away" as well as actively seek new employment. I've also taken the advice to try and not be seen by him as much as possible, although this one is difficult because I am visible to him from his workspace. Looking internally at my own issues will hopefully become easier when I can feel less stressed about this. I have been looking for support by sharing my experience with friends, but I have mixed responses (including from my managers who have become personal friends). Some people don't really take it seriously and think I am being too hard on him. It is isolating but it really doesn't feel like there is something official I can report to my job, not that I want things to get worse.

I will update this thread if there is any resolution. Fingers crossed about the new job! Thank you all again.

 

[becalm]

Not responding to your actual readings.....more than once I've had guys like this bother me. Best thing I found and stopped them straight away......every time you approach me in anyway I add it to the police report I started some months ago - it's all bs of course but they don't know that.

 

[Trojina]

Looking internally at my own issues will hopefully become easier when I can feel less stressed about this.

When someone you have asked to leave you alone won't and is stressing you I don't think it's you who needs to look at your issues.

Actually even if you don't want to take official action I think it's helpful to make a note of location time and place where he appears that is outside of work.

This can have several benefits


1. It gives you just a little sense of control and also some clarity about his patterns. If you look back over a month and can see a pattern it might help.

2. If his behaviour escalates your written record is proof that you were already taking this seriously. Thinking worse case scenario, which I doubt will happen, supposing he became more of a threat and you did need to go to the police, well at least you would have a record of his previous harassment and yes this is harassment.

This man is making you feel stressed and he has no right to. You have a right to live your life in peace.

3. Writing down what happens help you get more perspective on how much of a threat it is. You get more of a perspective because it just gets bigger and bigger when it's in your head.

What bugs me is that even if he isn't a threat in terms of physical harm and so on he is already threatening you and stressing you with his behaviour. That matters and your friends/colleagues should take it seriously.

 

[steve]

My experience with 23 Unchanging and a person and you feel threatened with, I believe the advice is cut ties with the person. I have had a similar situation with a person and received the cast.

It actually could mean looking for a new job, I agree with Trogina above, they should take it more seriously. My thoughts are cut ties as best you can and take it as a lesson in life.

Line 4 in Hexagram 1 I think could be advising to ride it out, but after you asked again, The Yi seems to be advising thats it best for you to make a clean break.

Steve

 

[Lavalamp]

Your first reading 1.1.3.4>59 is context for your second reading I think.
"What should I do?" That was your initial question. If you responded to the Yi with your next question igoring the Yi's advice, what it has to say after might be confusing. So let's see.

59 - the context of your question is the dissolving of the relationship.
1.1 - I think means Be yourself. Don't hide your life light, a submerged dragon is of no use.
1.3 - Nothing wrong with shining your light. Don't be afraid to do so.
1.4 - Something unreachable stirs in the depths. "...but it's too late baby now, it's too late..."

I think the Yi is saying this is about you more than about him. You are reacting to his presence and interest in a kind of negative attachment way, I mean repressing yourself rather than just being who you are because you fear something. You are advised not to do that.

As for 23 how to make him leave you alone forever -
The advice is undertakings bring misfortune. It is not helpful to try to bury someone else, in the first reading you are burying yourself, here don't try to bury someone else.
In fact the advice is when you are splitting up,
Wilhelm/Baynes: ... those above can ensure their position only by giving generously to those below.
Legge - Superiors therefore strengthen their inferiors to secure the peace and stability of their own
position.
Blofeld - The truly great shower generosity upon those under them to enable them to live in peace and comfort.
Be kind to people you break up with - is how I read this hexagram. Hey, it is hard when you love someone who does not love you.
Could be a little biased on the subject though.

- LL