How to start a discussion about leaving

[cjisacat]

My question was about how to approach my husband of many years about finally ending a relationship that is, indeed, over. He is delaying the end, pretending not to hear me on the subject. It's frustrating to say the least. My desire (for my/our ongoing financial health) is to divide our house into two apartments. Unconventional, yes, but perhaps the best solution in a very expensive city.

The hexagram I is received was 37.1.6 to 39.

Any thoughts are welcome.

 

[moss elk]

Hi cjisacat,

I have a few comments.
If you are intent on divorce,
you don't approach him about it.
That is the opposite of divorce.
That would be seeking his approval and agreement. (unless you live in a country where only the man can initiate a divorce.) Otherwise, you just manage it and make it happen.

Dividing your house into two apartments and staying there is the worst idea I have ever heard. That is still bound to him, marriage is a bond. Such an arrangement could only breed resentment. I'm not sure you are really clear about this whole thing, but if you are let's look at the reading.

About your reading:
The Family is Blocked.
(or it is not possible to have a real family here.)
Line 1-You'll have to set rules of engagement. (perhaps, no sex?)
Line 6-This is about the power of truth, how you truly feel and what is really happening here, voicing it will have a real effect. (be that him changing or agreeing to divorce.)

Good luck.

 

[cjisacat]

You are probably right about seeking his agreement. I have been trying to move forward without him. As for the house, we wouldn't be the first couple I know of to divide the house and continue to live in it. As I said, I live in an expensive city.

Line 1: Setting rules of engagement. Yes, I can be more proactive. As for no sex, he hasn't touched me in years, so it's not exactly a punishment. Part of why I want out.

Line 6: I have voiced it to him but it is as though he cannot hear it. I think I'll have to try harder. And yes, we've been through therapy.

 

[moss elk]

As I said, I live in an expensive city.

All cities are expensive.
You are speaking of mantaining a lifestyle. (the financial/status benefits of the marriage without the obligations)

Just because people have done it,
doesn't make it a good idea.
Ask Yi if it is a good idea.

Good luck.

 

[cjisacat]

It is far more complex than maintaining a lifestyle and/or status. It is partly about avoiding poverty, and sometimes you have to be creative about how to do that. I am able to be independent financially, he is not (or not willing to be).

I asked if we could successfully share the house and this is the answer: 59.1.2.5.6 to 24.

 

[Liselle]

(missed several posts while writing this)
-----


For what it's worth, I see this completely differently from Moss Elk. My guess is that Yi is endorsing your plan, and I think it's suggesting that the best approach to take is to go to your husband with it.

37's 39, People in the Home, Limping. This is a guess, of course, but in light of what you're saying, I think if dividing the house wouldn't work at all, Yi might not have started the reading with "People in the Home." How to explain...I think Yi's saying that the solution can be found within the home, not outside of it.

And hexagram 39 means limping up a mountain with great difficulty, but it's also advice on what to do: turn around, find an easier, better path, get help. I'm wondering--- I mean, the normal thing people do when divorcing is one of them moves out, or the house is sold and the proceeds divided. You're saying that won't work in this case, because of the real estate situation where you live. So you have to turn around, and look for an alternative, even if it's unconventional, as you said. That sounds like 39 to me.

Line 1, "With barriers there is a home," sounds to me exactly like dividing the house into two apartments. It doesn't say "leave," it says - within the hexagram of "People in the Home" - "with barriers." In other words, if there are barriers, there can be a home within the home.

(Not terribly relevant, but I once got that line when my cat was sick. She had urinated a couple times in inappropriate places. What I ended up doing was putting a large pet crate smack on top of my dining room table, and keeping her in there with her food, water, and litter box. It worked out beautifully until she was better. "A home within a home," so to speak.)

Now, in your case probably only if your house can be divided so that there really are good barriers. I don't know anything about any of this, but I think you'd want two completely separate entrances, and no connections inside - no shared doors or stairways or anything. I'm envisioning something that theoretically could be sold or rented on the open market as two separate houses/apartments, or something very close to that.

Line 6, I think, is Yi saying you can have authority here, if you wield it confidently. Hilary in her commentary does issue a warning, "Such influence will take time and consistent work, and it’s as well not to fall into over-confidence...," but generally I think it's encouragement.

 

[Liselle]

After a brief glance at your 59.1.2.5.6 to 24 reading, where 59 can be about boundaries that dissolve, and 59.6 literally says "get out" - I'm even more wondering what you mean exactly by "divide the house." 37.1 says "with barriers." Will there be good barriers?

 

[cjisacat]

Thank you for this interpretation. I think it is closer to the way I interpreted it - and thank you for making me more aware of the warning.

I'm new to Yi, and new to this forum and I appreciate the thoughtfulness of the people I find here.

 

[cjisacat]

Yes, proper barriers. Two apartments.

 

[Liselle]

Well... but see my last comment, after I saw the hexagram 59 reading.

Yi is taking great pains to talk about barriers and boundaries here - having them, in 37.1, and not having them, in 59. I think a lot of this depends on the nitty gritty of what "dividing the house" will look like.

 

[cjisacat]

Yes, proper barriers. Two apartments.

 

[Liselle]

Yes, proper barriers. Two apartments.

Oh, okay. We keep "crossing posts," as they say in forum-speak.

 

[cjisacat]

Perhaps where I need to put the most effort.

 

[Liselle]

I suppose another thing might be, do you trust your husband to respect the barriers?

Moss Elk might have a point, buried under the Judgey McJudgerson persona . It's all fine and well to say that lots of houses are divided into separate apartments, lived in by completely separate people, but it's also probably true that you and (ex-)husband will never be entirely that.

Your 59 reading - I'm very much not sure what it's saying. One observation is that there seem to be two distinct groupings of lines, which Hilary has said is sometimes a relevant feature. Something like, "in such-and-such circumstances, lines 1 and 2, but in so-and-so context, lines 5 and 6."

Lines 1 and 2 are in the inner trigram, which represents the inner world - 5 and 6 are in the outer trigram, the outer world.

Even assuming there's something to be made of that in your particular reading, I'm not sure what it's telling you. One possibility might be - just thinking about "inner world" vs. "outer world" - that you (inner world) know this is a solution that can be made to work, but other people (outer world) might think otherwise.

That is all so very speculative I probably shouldn't post it. But I don't think that reading should be ignored, especially with 59.6 there. That line really should be put in its proper place and context. I don't know what that is, though. Hence the one question to start, do you think you'll be able to trust your husband to respect boundaries?

 

[Liselle]

Perhaps where I need to put the most effort.

That would also go along better with your original question, which after all wasn't "what to do" in a nuts-and-bolts way with the house, but how to start a discussion with your husband. (Interpretation 101, Liselle, pay attention to the question )

So, how to start a discussion: establish boundaries/barriers (37.1), and insist they'll be respected, make sure of that (line 6)? Does that seem a little better?

 

[moss elk]

...the Judgey McJudgerson persona...

I prefer Discerning O'Discernington,
or Gentle Thunder. (42?)
thank you very much.


People need little shocks from time to time,
they are good to clear cobwebs, and to awaken.
We are all doomed when we begin to think that forms are more important than substance. (this is a societal critique, not a personal one)

 

[cjisacat]

That would also go along better with your original question, which after all wasn't "what to do" in a nuts-and-bolts way with the house, but how to start a discussion with your husband. (Interpretation 101, Liselle, pay attention to the question )

So, how to start a discussion: establish boundaries/barriers (37.1), and insist they'll be respected, make sure of that (line 6)? Does that seem a little better?

Yes and it makes a lot of sense. I think he may respect the boundaries if we can properly negotiate them i.e. come to a solution that we can both live with rather than one imposing something on the other. Thank you so much for your thoughtfulness. It's most appreciated.

 

[diamanda]

how to approach my husband of many years about finally ending a relationship
37.1.6 > 39
The family is over, it's not going anywhere (39). The first line is when a family begins, and it shows how when we establish a family, we need to set firm boundaries. You say that your marriage has been essentially over for years, so perhaps those boundaries were not set properly. The sixth line depicts an authoritative woman. Hexagram 37 is about the correct roles within a family, but here we have a failure of those roles. 39 also means lame. So, how to approach him. Tell him that this is not a proper family and it's not going anywhere. Since you're both in it, obviously he already knows this.

I asked if we could successfully share the house
59.1.2.5.6 > 24
No, it would dissolve very quickly. Initially one of you would run to the other for support (or to their mobile phone or tablet for support), however very soon it would end in shouting (59.5) and one of you running away to stay safe (59.6). After this explosive situation and the complete separation, things would be nice and comfortable (24).

 

[Liselle]

I prefer Discerning O'Discernington,
or Gentle Thunder. (42?)
thank you very much.

Touche, Mr. M. E. D. O'D.

People need little shocks from time to time,
they are good to clear cobwebs, and to awaken.
We are all doomed when we begin to think that forms are more important than substance. (this is a societal critique, not a personal one)

It's just I don't think we have any good reason to conclude that about Cjisacat after a whole...*looks*...10 posts?

Yes and it makes a lot of sense. I think he may respect the boundaries if we can properly negotiate them i.e. come to a solution that we can both live with rather than one imposing something on the other.

I hope so! From your end of the negotiation, probably just don't forget about 59.1.2.5.6 > 24 (which I still don't have any better ideas about - maybe if you look at it enough you will? Or maybe, if you kind of memorize it, keep it in mind, you'll be able to recognize something as it happens: "Oh, that's what 59 (or a moving line) was about!")

24 has a lot to it, I think. It's the relating hexagram, which is often "your" part of the reading, the context or background, what it means to you or feels like to you more subjectively. It can mean a lot of "re-" words, like return and renew. It's said to be seasonal, about the time in winter when things are darkest, but there will soon be a "turning point" into spring.

The oracle section also says "Going out, coming in, without anxiety" - no rush, no hurry - which seems an odd thing for Yi to tell you when it sounds like this has been going on quite long enough, thank-you-very-much. But that's what it says, one part of it anyway.

 

[Liselle]

Yes and it makes a lot of sense. I think he may respect the boundaries if we can properly negotiate them i.e. come to a solution that we can both live with rather than one imposing something on the other.

Just noticed something. The part I made bold is a good description of hexagram 60, Measuring. It's about setting limits, coming to workable agreements, legal contracts, things like that.

Hexagram 60 just so happens to be what is called the "Pair" of hexagram 59. If you turn hexagram 59 upside down, look at it from the other end, you get hexagram 60. Like this:


▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
▬▬▬ ▬▬▬
▬▬▬ ▬▬▬
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
▬▬▬ ▬▬▬
Hexagram 59

▬▬▬ ▬▬▬
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
▬▬▬ ▬▬▬
▬▬▬ ▬▬▬
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Hexagram 60


There are two things going through my head about this. One - these are contrasts of each other, forming a pair, and Yi did not give you the one that describes being able to set limits, establish boundaries, and come to agreements. It quite pointedly gave you precisely the other one, about boundaries being dissolved. That's your primary hexagram, the stuff you have to work with. So on the one hand, that does not sound promising.

On the other hand, your relating hexagram is 24 - return, renewal, a brighter day as winter turns to spring. So could the reading as a whole suggest you might be able to renew the state of formlessness and lack of boundaries, find a turning point? (The relating hexagram is trickier to understand, because it can be personal and subjective. For example, it might simply reflect your belief that you can renew and resolve this, when reality might be more 59-ish.)

To be honest, I'm starting to lean much more towards thinking this is not something you'll be able to successfully contend with and thrive under. Ack.

However. In light of hexagram 24's call to take your time - maybe this is why. Is there anything to lose at this point by taking some time to try? (That's a question - is there?) Maybe you could approach your husband about it, in a 37.1.6 way as we've discussed, and see what kind of reaction you get. Let him know you're serious! (Seriously - some way of letting him know you're really serious might fit nicely with 37.6.)

If you continue to get a horrible reaction and no co-operation, even when you somehow make it clear that this is "crunch point," then maybe there will never be any.

 

[Trojina]

My question was about how to approach my husband of many years about finally ending a relationship that is, indeed, over. He is delaying the end, pretending not to hear me on the subject. It's frustrating to say the least. My desire (for my/our ongoing financial health) is to divide our house into two apartments. Unconventional, yes, but perhaps the best solution in a very expensive city.

The hexagram I is received was 37.1.6 to 39.

Any thoughts are welcome.

I've not read all the responses in detail but my first thought is is it really 'over' or is it just limping ?

I'm not convinced this is going to happen. If you really wanted to split from him you really wouldn't keep him next door. The only way you could have him next door would be if he was totally happy with it which he isn't because he doesn't want to lose you. If you are going to live next door to each other you might as well just stay in the same house but in different rooms ?

I don't think anything in the reading says this is over. I mean I believe what you say but I don't believe it's what the reading says in particular. Going to look at the 59 reading.

 

[Trojina]

I asked if we could successfully share the house and this is the answer: 59.1.2.5.6 to 24.

Above I was saying 'live next door' whereas you mean making the house into 2 apartments.

Good Grief that could be hell on earth, you could make one another miserable in so many ways. I mean what happens if you ever come home with another man, how would he cope with that ? How would a new partner of yours feel about going back to a place where your husband still lives ??

Anyway the reading - well it just flies all over the place into the air and back to where it was before doesn't it. It won't make any difference to your life by making a separate apartment since you will still effectively be with him and if you plan on still effectively being with him that means you don't want to leave very much


This isn't just about expense at all is it ?


And what about if this is a marriage that's struggling not a marriage that is over.

 

[rosada]

Perhaps 37.1 is advising that you don’t wait for permission or agreement - you simply begin dividing the house and setting up the new boundaries. Certainly if he comes home to find his clothes have all been moved to another room and likewise the rest of the house has been re-organized to reflect the new relationship, this will get a serious conversation started.

Also, if your new floor plan results in him getting some very cramped quarters 39, this will further inspire him to talk about what’s going on and how you’re going to proceed.

 

[cjisacat]

Perhaps 37.1 is advising that you don’t wait for permission or agreement - you simply begin dividing the house and setting up the new boundaries. Certainly if he comes home to find his clothes have all been moved to another room and likewise the rest of the house has been re-organized to reflect the new relationship, this will get a serious conversation started.

Also, if your new floor plan results in him getting some very cramped quarters 39, this will further inspire him to talk about what’s going on and how you’re going to proceed.

My plan is for him to have a smaller part of the house. We have already been living in separate rooms in the house for the last year. Making two apartments means he doesn't know who is in my part and I don't know who is in his part. (It's also an assumption that I could find another partner.) I live in a city with an incredibly tight and expensive rental market (today's news was an apt. that cost nearly $2000/mo that one had to be out of during the day because it would be used by the landlord as his office - true story). If that werem't the case, I would have left a year ago.

 

[cjisacat]

And what about if this is a marriage that's struggling not a marriage that is over.

I think that is how he sees it. We are people who like each other but who have lived in a non-romantic relationship for a long time. I finally called it because I could no longer stand it.

 

[Liselle]

I'm wondering if there could be anything to be made of both your relating hexagrams - I think - being about "turnaround" in different ways? 39 is about finding a better path when struggling, 24 is a "turning point"...

They're different hexagrams, of course, in answers to different questions. Still there seems to be a little theme, maybe? (That I don't know what to do with.)

 

[cjisacat]

Perhaps that change is necessary, to not go back.

 

[moss elk]

59>24 makes me think of a boomerang.
Throw it away and it comes back.

 

[Trojina]

I think that is how he sees it. We are people who like each other but who have lived in a non-romantic relationship for a long time. I finally called it because I could no longer stand it.

Doesn't that describe the state of all those who marry or live together for years ?

That's not to say you should stay, I just don't think romance features hugely in any long term relationships.

 

[Liselle]

59>24 makes me think of a boomerang.
Throw it away and it comes back.

Somehow the two moving lines at either end seem to fit with that.