I ching Addiction

[anemos]

When someone adds layers of do and don't, of this way not that way, or spiritual this and moral that, that is their own code, their own piss on the tree for others to read and interpret. Yi's answers help us to connect to those tracks and signs. We use our intellect rather than our nose, but learning to use our animal senses makes us better readers of the signs, senses we otherwise have left so far behind.

Yes, that is my belief too. Our intellect is interwoven with our animal side and sometimes our nose can be more reliable and correct compared to our mind... it's about integration, imho, and not dishminishing the "lower" parts in order to be "higher". Embodied cognition is equally important.

 

[svenrus]

.... when being in my mind I feel wise but when being in contact with true nature I feel childish and unwise.
I prefer the last: not knowing anything but being in a constantly state of learning, experiencing, discovering or what You call it.
Maybe I'm in my mind now ?

 

[sooo]

Personal bumps along the way aside, I regard Bradford's translation and most of his commentaries to set (for me) a reliable standard to refer to. His pdf doesn't permit copy/pasting, but his 56.6 describes this situation to a T.

Then, some would likely say the same of me.

In the end, all of it refers to everyone at one time or other.

 

[sooo]

Yes, that is my belief too. Our intellect is interwoven with our animal side and sometimes our nose can be more reliable and correct compared to our mind... it's about integration, imho, and not dishminishing the "lower" parts in order to be "higher". Embodied cognition is equally important.

Completely agree. The limbic system, or "lizard brain" is critical to our survival skills. Someone said to Joseph Campbell, "A dog gets along just fine, so what do we need to know all this other stuff for?" Joe replied, "of course you are right, but it is a dog's life after all." Yet to rely only on the intellect as our higher self could be likened to a computer. Even if it could reason and compute, it couldn't imagine. Even if it could play Beethoven note-for-note, it couldn't compose a melody, write a sonnet, or paint an imaginary scene; it could only emulate.

We are in the middle, and our cognition is the artist.

 

[rosada]

Thinking about what might be the dangers in IC "addiction":

First it seems to me would be the simple fact that there are only so many hours in a day. If you're using all your time to ask "should I do my homework?" you're never going to get around to doing your homework.

Second, but perhaps more importantly, is there a danger we are losing our ability to connect with our inner knowingness by using the IC to connect with our inner knowingness? How many modern improvements have actually lessened our innate abilities? Cars were invented to help people move faster but reliance on cars has caused people to become so out of shape they can't run at all. The internet was supposed to help store and retrieve information but now people rely on it so much they can't remember their own phone numbers. The I Ching connects people with - hmm..what?..a higher intuition? Anyway, do we trust our instincts more since we started using the IC or since learning to use it do we trust our own intuition less and need to get an I Ching reading before we can act?

4.1 says the map is not the territory. You can't learn just by reading, you gotta test your theories, your interpretations, by taking some action - even when we know we're doomed to make mistakes.

My solution has been to work on memorizing the I Ching. By having the lines and hexagrams recorded in my brain I don't need to spend so much time with my nose in the book PLUS my own intuition seems to speak to me more clearly because while in a situation an IC quote will suddenly pop into my head that goes along with the other intuitive signals I'm getting. Thus, for me, memorizing the IC solves both the issue of spending too much time in consulting and of relying too much on outside guidance.

Not that there's anything wrong with that,
Rosada

 

[taoscopy]

Yes, often there are problems that I am unable to solve by consulting the Yi. Then I take a 2-3 days break from consulting and I find the solution by other ways.

In my opinion, one of the reasons is that the Yi won't give you the solution if you can find it on your own. For example, don't ask the Yi if you have received any mail, but get up from your chair and check your mailbox.

So even a compulsive caster deserves a break every now and then.

 

[diamanda]

Second, but perhaps more importantly, is there a danger we are losing our ability to connect with our inner knowingness by using the IC to connect with our inner knowingness?

(...)

memorizing the IC solves both the issue of spending too much time in consulting and of relying too much on outside guidance.

Excellent point rosada about memorising the IC.
Then the symbols of archetypal knowledge can pop up when our intuition needs it.

I don't believe that the IC hinders our ability to connect to our intuition.
In any case, divination has been around since the very early days of humanity.
If it wasn't something valuable, it would have died away through the centuries.

As long as we don't overdo it, and it doesn't turn into an addiction which eats away
at our daily hours, then it's simply a wonderful gift.

PS - I memorised most of the IC involuntarily after some manic casting, many years ago!

 

[sooo]

Over the last two months I've been bugged by a decision. I reasoned with regard to my extremely frugal lifestyle that spending a significant amount on what is the number one creative activity in my life was not being irresponsible. I must have asked the Yi about it more than a dozen times, using different wording and different angles of viewing the matter. I truly wanted a clear answer. I wasn't trying to finagle an answer one way or another, but it was clear that I wasn't getting a green light on the purchase. Why? I really wanted to know the reason. Finally, like a pane of shattered glass coming together to form one clear sheet of glass, the answer came, which was 37.1-53. But it wasn't this answer nor all the others together alone that made the pieces come together, but the information gathered during this time that finally made me realize that this object was not me; it was not my family; therefore it would not fulfill my intended purpose. Seclusion within my family would be necessary to continue my steady process. Looking back now, all those other answers make perfect sense, but I needed not only to obey Yi's answers but to gather enough information, complete information, to see through Yi's window clearly.

 

[Olga Super Star]

you gotta test your theories, your interpretations, by taking some action

action is the word!

I was shocked by recently reading a comment that said "Yi doesn't seem to want me to do much these years"
Good lord
Even if you get 39 in any field of life you're dealing with, you can't just sit down and wait - not for years at least. I wouldn't!
If it's called the book of changes I have the power to change it :demon:

 

[sooo]

If it's called the book of changes I have the power to change it

I don't know about change it but we certainly have the power to change our direction. That was the point I tried to make, which I don't think I did successfully. Yi's window can be viewed from either side. The Yi can show us the situation, or a situation can show us the Yi.

“It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards,' says the White Queen to Alice.” Through the looking glass ― Lewis Carroll

 

[post-snow]

Yes, I've been through this too. There are a few things to know when you consult the I Ching.

First, it is that the I Ching is considered to be sacred by many. There are people who burn incense before consulting. You are not asked to perform such rituals but the least you can do is to show some respect and pay attention to the answers given to you. The Yi is not a toy and if you play with the Yi then the Yi will play with you.

Second is never ever ask "What does X think of me?" The reason is that soon or later asking such questions will break your relationship with X.

If you want to show the Yi to your friends, do it but tell them about these two rules first.

hello! i might be late but can yeou explein "Second is never ever ask "What does X think of me?" The reason is that soon or later asking such questions will break your relationship with X."? i do not understand how
many thanks in advance!

 

[Olga Super Star]

Hi Post-snow

Taoscopy is no longer in the forum, unless he is with another name.

 

[LadyLigeia]

I’ve been there too!
One thing I’ve found it’s that when asking for a picture of a situation, or about how is somebody, sometimes it portrays the exact moment and the action, but the exact one, not what I’ve mean to, like related to my wide answer: the tree, not the forest.

An example, What is my health state right now? And gives me a peaceful answer even I can be injured, but, at that exact moment I’m sitting in my sofa comfortably and resting.
And sometimes it’s only this frame what is seen. (and kind to read and feel), a tool for peace when you’re too overwhelmed.

I’ve been in anger, reading about, for example: How is my partner now? And giving me answers related to work, concentration when I was expecting him to be mad at me or angry after a discussion like 44, 54, or so. I Ching was telling me he was inmersed in his job at that time. Or having a coffee break.
Of course he was angry like me, but he was doing real things instead of going round and round like me. I couldn’t find anything that fitted , nothing made sense because everything was so obvious, just because I was much more over thinking than he was. He was concerned, of course, but I couldn’t blame him for working, being with relatives and not be recluded, people have different ways of confronting feelings, some of us can’t hide, some are like actors and you can’t suspect a thing, but everybody feels…
Most of the times, less is more, and simpler is better.