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I Ching and western astrology

frank_r

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Some time ago I studied astrolgy with I ching and found some intersting things.

First you have the 12 astrology signs, and the 12 houses.

I found two systems of twelve what they use sometimes for dividing time.
The first one is the 12 season hexagrams. the cycle of lunar and solar energies in a year cycle. For instance in the book of the Unchanging Truth of Hua -Ching Ni and also the Can Tong Qi(I love this booK).

Because the are more related to the year cycle you can also put the energy of the houses on top of them.

Start of the year is in spring starting with;
First house - house of personality hexagram 11
Second house - house talent and money - 34
third house - house brother, sisters learning skills and communication - - 43
forth house - house of parents and early years - 1
fifth house house of love and children - 44
sixth house - house of work and health - 33
seventh house - house of partner and cooperation - 12
eighth house - house of mysticicum and death - 20
ninth house - house of higher vision, foreign countries - 23
tenth house - house of occupation and society - 2
eleventh house house of friends and relations - 24
twelfth house - house of religion, sollitude - 19

Another system with known anologies with the I Ching and astrology is the one with the nuclear hexagrams.(from Han Boering making the kosmic and karmick/ nuclear hexagrams)

Aries - - 39
Taurus - 53
gemini - 37
cancer - 44
leo - 28
Virgo - 43
Libra - 38
Scorpio - 54
Sagittarius - 40
Capricorn - 24
Aquarius - 27
Pisces - 23

When you now use the technique who Chris is naming XORing. You get the hexagram for a sign in a house.

For instance Saggitarius is standing in the 7 th house, the house of partners and cooperations
the 7 th house is 12 and Sagittarius is 40
12 000111
40 010100
---------
010011 is 59

When the stagnation will get out of the sphere of danger there will be a solution.

then you can look how great this house is, for instance 30 degrees than Divide this in 6 (6 lines of a hexagram) when a planet is in 12 degrees then you can read the third line of 59.

This way you can read your horoscope with the I Ching

What I found interesting studying Astrology was , that you can get all hexagrams this way. But you can't get hexagram 17, 18, 21, 22, 47, and 48.

Frank R
 

sinsonte

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Hello Frank

All these ?spare? hexs can be derived from the doubled versions of the 8 trigrams (there exists a terminus for these hexs .....) :

Water and fire : 61 >18; 62 >17;
Lake and thunder : 34 >47; 19 >48; Wind and mountain: 33> 21; 20> 22
(Heaven and earth: 1 >64; 2 >63)

Just playful thinking: The 6 spare hexs would make 3 axes. AC/DC or IC/MC ...
(BTW: I cannot help but thinking ?sun at MC? whenever I come across "sun at midday" )

Warm regards,
Ella
 

martin

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I have not really explored this very much but I think there is a certain similarity between the line positions in a hexagram and the "qualities" of astrological signs or houses, as follows:

6: virgo & pisces, 6 & 12 (mutable)
5: leo & aquarius, 5 & 11 (fixed)
4: cancer & capricorn, 4 & 10 (cardinal)
3: gemini & sagittarius, 3 & 9 (mutable)
2: taurus & scorpio, 2 & 8 (fixed)
1: aries & libra, 1 & 7 (cardinal)

Each line in a hexagram corresponds to one axis or dimension in astrology (opposing signs or houses).
For example, in line 5 we have the theme leo-aquarius, perhaps monarchy-democracy or something like that. And in line 2 a theme could be individual versus shared resources.
Line 6 covers details, finetuning, the finishing touch (virgo, 6) and (un)finished business (pisces, 12).
And so on.

What I have explored a bit more is similarities between trigrams and planets in western astrology.
Which planet corresponds to which trigram? In some cases it's quite clear, in other cases there is (a lot of) room for discussion, but for me these correspondences work best till now:

lake - venus
thunder - mars
wood - mercury
water - moon
fire - jupiter (or the sun, but i think the sun is a principle on another level, so I prefer to give fire to the most "sunny" planet)
mountain - saturn
heaven - uranos
earth - neptune
 

heylise

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When I tried to figure out the hexagrams, what they could have to do with astrology, I started in a simple way, the way I imagined it could have happened in the beginning. Seeing the moon move around in 30 days approximately, 12 of them in a year.

Moons come in pairs, positive and negative, yang and yin. Even the Western astrological signs have this distinction, so the Chinese took them 2 by 2 together, as pairs. Six pairs in a year. All first days of the double moons having similarities with each other, and all second lines and so on. So I got 60 days in 6 moon-pairs. That comes close to the number of both hexagrams and lines.

Hexagram 1 and 2 are different from all the rest. Pure yang and pure yin, not something you meet in life, everything very yang has some yin, and vv. If 63 and 64 are in the same way part of the structure, but 'outside' daily life, then you get a very nice likeness. Six times 60 days.

There is a system of images for every day of the year. The Sabian Symbols. When I put them side by side with the structure for the hexagrams, there were some interesting things. Taurus 30: "A peacock parading on an ancient lawn" next to 62.1, the bird which should not fly. 47.Cancer 15: "A group of people who have overeaten and enjoyed it" next to 47.2: Confined with food and drink. These two are the most literal ones, but many made a lot of sense.

The upper canon (approximately) of the hexagrams would be the yang moon then, and the lower the yin moon. Makes sense with hexagrams 1,2, 63 and 64 too, the last two are then the "yin" version of the pair yang-yin.

LiSe
 

frank_r

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hallo ella,

yes I also know these 8 hexagrams as where the energy takes a quantum jump because the change is within the same trigram., Han boering develloped this system of the tree traces method.

With this metod a hexagram is the time between a starting trigram, a static moment where the energy is starting, to a trigram where it ends.
the 8 trigrams are not changing objects and have no future or history. Where a hexagram has a future and a history.

The theory is that old yang(9) is a yang line changing in yin, old yin(6) yin is changing in yang, young yang(7) yang is staying yang and young yin(8) yin stays yin.

For instance lake 110 111100(34) 001(mountain)
So the Power of the great is the path between lake and mountain. Power is the path from a smile to silence.
I will try to get a picture in, I hope it will get ok it's the first time I try.



But Ella this is the same you do this?

BTW I looked into my astrology notes and it are the hexagrams 21,22, 29 ,30, 47 and 48. You can't get this way. So 4 of the quantum hexagrams(from lake, thunder, and mountain) and 29 and 30.

Frank R
 

frank_r

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I try again, hopefully it will go this time otherwise another time wenn I know how to do this.
This computers wenn will I learn it?


<center><table border=1><tr><td>
C:\...\lezing berlijn\bron & doel
bron & doel.doc (72.7 k)</td></tr></table></center>

Frank R
 

frank_r

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Hallo Martin and Lise,

Martin; When you assigned the planets to the trigrams you did this on intuition, or there is a sort of a system in it.

And did you study astrology with I Ching, or more I Ching studying with astrology.

I started to study the I ching when I started with acupuncture. There is a lot of interesting study done with the combination of those two.

That is why I started studying other systems with the I ching.

Lise you wrote how you came at your combination Sabian signs and I Ching. Why you looked to this combination?

After doing western astrology I looked into Maya astrology. they have 13 energy patrons(13 moons in one year, the 13 cycles in a year)with the combination with 20 signs. 4 directions and 5 families.
for me was this were the 4 directions and the 5 elements. In acupuncture there is also the develpment from the 4 directions into 5 elements. The 8 trigrams give the 10 stems. wood starting the cycle and water ending but the same trigrams. Then you get the hexagrams 63,64,2,1, 47,22,34,20,18,17,61,62,21,48,33,19. So All kosmick hexagrams, all Quantum hexagram and some doubled trigrams.

the 13 are like the climbing of the lines as in the normal astrology, only there is a middle part, the spiritual part ,
So hexagram 24, 19, 11, 34 43,1,44, 33, 12, 20, 23 and again 1. interesting book about using this technieque(she's combinating it with the idea of Karma) is from Marysol Gonzalis Sterling; I Ching and transpersonal Psycology.

When you have the XOR-ing techniek from Chris, Then you get all the 64 Hexagrams.

Later I met some people who where into Enneagrams, and found a book called Gods will be done.(from Laleh Bakthair) Thats a book about enneagrams. He is making a distinction between head, heart and belly. And in this book there where 64 patrons. 64 I went on looking if I found a way to put the I Ching in and yes i found a way, and also found a patron in the enneagrams thats similar to the Lo Shu patron.

With finding this analogies I always think there is a joined force in all this fields of exporing life and patrons. Lets keep on searching!!!!!!

All best wishes from Frank R
 

martin

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Hi Frank,

"When you assigned the planets to the trigrams you did this on intuition, or there is a sort of a system in it"

Not really a system, it's mostly based on experience with the I Ching and astrology and not on logical reasoning. Astrology and the I Ching were initially seperate "hobbies" in my case, but overtime it became apparent that the archetypes, the basic principles or qualities, are similar.
I focused mainly on the similarities between trigrams and planets but, as this thread shows, there are many other links between the two that one can explore.

"And did you study astrology with I Ching, or more I Ching studying with astrology"

I do both sometimes. I like to read hexagrams as pairs of planets or signs or houses. And the other way around.
Hexagram 37, for example, as an aspect of mercury (~ wood trigram) and jupiter (~ fire trigram).
How to read this? Jupiter expressed through mercury perhaps. The practical application and working out the details (mercury, gemini, virgo) of a general idea, a vision, a belief (jupiter, sagittarius)?
What you often get when you play with correspondences in this way are meanings that make sense somehow although they are perhaps not "in the book" (neither in the I Ching, nor in books about astrology).

" I went on looking if I found a way to put the I Ching in and yes i found a way, and also found a patron in the enneagrams thats similar to the Lo Shu patron."

Can you tell a bit more about this? You make me curious!
I'm wondering now, btw, if 6 of the 9 enneagram types correspond to trigrams (excluding heaven and earth). Maybe. It's a long time ago since I read about the enneagram. Have to refresh my memory first.
 

frank_r

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Hallo Martin,

"I went on looking if I found a way to put the I Ching in and yes i found a way, and also found a patron in the enneagrams thats similar to the Lo Shu patron."

Can you tell a bit more about this? You make me curious!"

In the book I mentioned they spoke about 64 possible moral balance/imbalances.

First look at the enneagram, the top three are 8,9 and 1 thats the head(wisdom), right part 2,3 and 4 is the heart(courage) and the left part is 5,6 and 7 the gut(temperance), the unconsciousness. see example in document.

<center><table border=1><tr><td>
enneagram
ennegram 1.doc (71.7 k)</td></tr></table></center>

There is always activity in the head, heart and gut at the same time. the only question is where is the energy the most active.


8,9 and 1 is heaven , 2,3 and 4 is earth and 5,6 and 7 is man.
9 is between 1 and 8, 3 is between 4 and 2, 6 is between 7 and 5.

The middle 3,6 and 9 are in balance and can be totally yin(old yin,) or be totally yang(old yang),

9(heaven lines), 6 (man lines), 3 (earth lines),

young yang(top yang, bottum yin), and young yin(top yin, bottum yang). when 1 is aktive
1 is left(top line) and 8 is right(bottum line), of heaven lines. 7 is top line 5 in bottum line of man lines and 4 top line and two bottum line of earth.

In this way you have 64! combinations.

For instance when you take hexagram 57 old yang, heaven lines 9, young yin man lines 7, and young yang 2. See the example in document.

<center><table border=1><tr><td>
enneagram 2
enneagram 2.doc (30.2 k)</td></tr></table></center>

Next time I while show you the Lo shu part where you can see the commun ground of the luo shu and the enneagrams.

Best wishes frank R
 

martin

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Hi Frank,

My wordprocessor (Jarte) that is supposed to be able to read Word docs crashes on these documents. And a friend who tried to open them with Word discovered that they are empty.

Did you put something very mysterious in them?
 

frank_r

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LiSe thank you!

Martin here the movement of the tai qi figure starting with one ending with nine.

The lines are the connections known in the enneagram 2-4-1-7-5-8-2 and 3-9-6.
The figure looks somewhat like the Lo Shu.




Hopefully this goes well( me and computers


A made some drawings of the enneagrams, I love doing it. then I see it in perspective.



Frank R
 

martin

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Hi Frank,

Sorry for the late response, I have been very busy.
I can still not read your documents on this pc (thank you for showing the pictures here, LiSe :)) but I think I understand now how you link hexagrams and enneagram types.
Hexagram 37, for example, corresponds to types 9, 7 and 4.
Same for hexagram 36 (the two top lines are old yin instead of old yang, but these both map to type 9). Right?

I would like to make a table for these correspondences, but the formatting here will probably mess it up (it did that with tables on the old forum). :)
 
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frank_r

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hallo Martin,

Yes that's right and for instance hexagram 50 correspond with type 8, 6 and 2 and hexagram 4(picture 5the line 2end figure) with type 8, 6 and 2 the only difference is old yin 6 hexagram 4 and old yang 6 is hexagram 50.

And for the earth lines hexagram 58(in the picture the 4the line 4th figure) is 1, 5 and 3 and hexagram 45(in the picture 8th line 3th figure) is also 1,5 and 3.

It's interesting to see which part covers the centre, and which don't.

Frank R
 
L

lightofreason

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To get the 'best fit' of powers of 2 with powers of 3 you need to take the 64 and compress them into digram orderings that are 'incomplete' - you end up with 8 invarient forms of translation and 19 'superpositions' to give 27 states mappable to 3^3.

The enneagram etc focuses on adding a mediation element - the core sense being in the 6-9-3 triangle (9 is the mediator, 3 is more 'differentiating', 6 more 'integrating'). The other triadic relationships cover variations on the themes.

To see the hexagrams compressed into this form, and to see the 'invarient' qualities (8 of them) see the lower parts of http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/WaveStructure.html - or consider:

The eight hexagrams in their order are:

02 - 000000

20 - 000011

62 - 001100

33 - 001111

19 - 110000

61 - 110011

34 - 111100

01 - 111111

If we compress these hexagrams they form into the TRIGRAMS.

000000 becomes 000

000011 becomes 001

001100 becomes 010

001111 becomes 011

110000 becomes 100

110011 becomes 101

111100 becomes 110

111111 becomes 111

In other words we witness in this 'compression' exercise the invarience of the core 'meanings' associated with the trigrams.
 

frank_r

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Hai Chris,

"the core sense being in the 6-9-3 triangle (9 is the mediator, 3 is more 'differentiating', 6 more 'integrating')"

Yes I suddenly saw it in the triads from 3, 9 and 6. 3 in the spring position as differentiating , 9 as mediator(central) and 6 as integrating autumn position. The same as in the picture I found in the tai Qi figure.

And the trigrams make also more sense then. Thanks for the insight.

Best wishes frank R
 

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