I have a favor to ask...

[cal val]

Hi everyone...

I would love a translation for the nine in the sixth place of hexagram 13 from both the Wilhelm intrepretation and Carol Anthony's version.

If you'd like to throw your own insights in that would be cool as well. I'd just as soon not tell the question I asked because I don't even know that the throw was all that relevant to the question actually.

Thanks so much.

Ciao for now,

Val

 

[gene]

Val

I am not sure the Wilhelm Baynes version gives enough or adequate information on this line. The basic premise is that true fellowship has still not been reached. Also, it is not that universal, the fellowship is in the meadow, not in the open country. We do know that usually the sixth line has overextended itself. We also know that the line here being yang is not correct. Wilhelm Baynes says there is still something missing here. Fellowship of men is an ideal goal that is not going to be reached during this age or period. On the other hand it is a start. The next hexagram, which is the inverse, #14 shows great treasures. This is the outcome of true fellowship which we have not reached. The next odd numbered hexagram is 15, humility. This shows the context in which true fellowship can be acheived, for haughtiness or ego can only encite and entice the ego in the other person. While I agree to a point that here true fellowship has not been reached, on a more personal level perhaps it has been. The nuclear hexagram is #44, coming to meet, in which we see the only way we can have fellowship is coming to terms with our fellow man. We have to go half way. Unfortunately, this does not usually work between men and women, because sexual tensions get in the way, but for the men of the clan, or woman to woman, it does. If we are willing to meet half way. This hexagram can deal with love issues, but it more specifically deals with a universal type love. Another way to look at it is that men or women only get together when there is a hard situation described in hexagram 12 that brings them together. Without that, there is usually a willingness to battle with each other, and vie for supremacy, and control over the others in the group. It is when we have to come together for the common good that we do. Women are better at this than men, because their natural tendency is to relate. Men in general are individualistic and tend to want everyone to carry his own weight. That is why they are not as perceptive. Why do they need to be if they expect the other person to take care of himself anyway? The sixth line is beyond the inner core of the hexagram, and is often a lead in to the next hexagram. In this case #14. And what brings us great treasure? When we work together for the common good. If I get this hexagram in a relationship question, I tend to see it more as a friendship relationship, that a true lovers relationship. But in that sense, being platonic, it is still often at arms length. Therefore, the deeper love and caring for each other just is not there. I would be willing to bet, Val, that this does not help one bit in relationship to the question you asked, but I thought I would give it a shot anyway.

Gene

 

[gene]

Oh, one more thing. The sixth line here is not only incorrect, but it has no relationship with the nine in the third, its natural partner. Neither does it have a relationship with the ruler of the hexagram, the nine in the fifth. It is not that it does not want to relate, only that there is no one for it to relate to. Therefore, change the sixth line, and you arrive at #49. For when we cannot relate with our rulers or with our fellow man. There is in all likelihood a revolution of one kind or another.

Gene

 

[lindsay]

Dear Val,

Here are a whole bunch of translations and commentaries on 13.6 from my notebooks, including Wilhelm and Anthony. Most of these are older, and a few are somewhat obscure, but variety is the spice of life, no? Hope something here helps. For others, it is always interesting to look at a lot of translations and commentaries in parallel to see the range of interpretation.

Lindsay


Yaoci 6 (9 - Yang)

Translations:

Legge: The topmost Nine, undivided, (shows the representative of) the union of men in the suburbs. There will be no occasion for repentance.

Wilhelm: Nine at the top means:
Fellowship with men in the meadow.
No remorse.

Blofeld: Her beloved is in a distant frontier region -- no regret!

Albertson: At the top, Nine signifies:
Association with neighbors.
No self-reproach.

Douglas: Nine in the sixth place: Fellowship with those in the near countryside. There will be no need for repentance.

Reifler: He unites with men in the suburbs.
No guilt.

Da Liu: Fellowship of men in the open (countryside). No remorse.

Powell: In the sixth line, Nine signifies:
The beloved is in a distant place.
No regrets.

Riseman: Nine at the top: fellowship with those in the fields. No guilt.

Ho, Palmer, O'Brien: Good friends are to be found in the countryside. There is nothing to regret.

Whincup: With others in the fields.
No regrets.

Huangs: A gathering at a ritual in the field.
No grudges.

Wei: Comrades gather in the suburb. There is no occasion for regret.

Wu Jing-Nuan: A union of men in the suburbs. No regrets.

Cleary: One can be the same as people on the outskirts without regret.

Shima: Fellowship with those in the meadows. There is no regret.

Lynn: If one practices Fellowship in the countryside, he will remain free of regret.


Commentary

Legge: The union reaches to all within the suburbs, and is not yet universal; but still there is no cause for repentance.

Wilhelm: The warm attachment that springs from the heart is lacking here. We are by this time actually outside of fellowship with others. However, we ally ourselves with them. The fellowship does not include all, but only those who happen to dwell near one another. The meadow is the pasture at the entrance to the town. At this stage, the ultimate goal of the union of mankind has not yet been attained, but we need not reproach ourselves. We join the community without separate aims of our own.

Siu: The man achieves fellowship, but only with those nearby. Simply because mankind has not yet attained universal brotherhood, however, is no ground for remorse.

Albertson: The situation is more one of alliance than close association, and it extends only to those in the community. We have not yet come to that point where all mankind can form the close ties of brotherhood, but we must not blame ourselves for this. The time for brotherhood has not yet arrived. The best hope at present is for some degree of peace and understanding, no matter how limited. True brotherhood is not easily achieved; it is, rather, a distant goal, but humanity will attain it some day.

Douglas: Fellowship can only be achieved by this time amongst those close at hand. Universal fellowship is still far off, but what has already been attained gives no cause for regret.

Reifler : The suburbs of a city are a kind of Limbo. This line expresses the fellowship of those in Limbo. Without a common goal, without a common past, with nothing in common but being equally lost and cut off from other men, you have joined with others in similar straits.

Da Liu: Nine at the top indicates that work in a remote place is likely. But if you don't have a job already, it will be difficult to find one. The correct course is to keep your old position and lead a settled life.

Powell: The companions trust one another, even when they are far apart. But the fact that the beloved is in a distant place means that the association is still not fulfilled: the time of true brotherhood of man has not yet arrived. But there is hope and no occasion for self-reproach.

Wing: The unity and fellowship that are possible in this position are not significant in terms of universal needs. However, joining with others, even in a small way, is not a mistake.

Riseman: The image describes an alliance without inner purpose or warmth. The idea of remoteness suggests that there is no real satisfaction to be gained from one's situation.

West: Work for a larger purpose, either alone or with others.

Anthony: Fellowship with men in the meadow. No remorse. Here we see that the way of the Sage is the only path to follow. However, since we still hold doubts, we do not achieve the happiness that comes from a truly enlightened understanding in which we see with clarity the great power that is aroused by following the path of the true and the good. The way of the Sage appears to be more difficult than it is.

Fox, Hughes, Tampion.: There is no reason to feel sad because everybody is not in harmony. If we have, without selfish motives, joined even a small group then something has been achieved.

Damian-Knight: At heart we are at one with everybody else, but at present there is a nagging hollow feeling.
This is because we are on the fringes of events. We need to feel the warmth of true accord by participating in the scheme of things. Although the situation is not perfect, our hearts are in the right place and because of this we can grow closer to the higher aim of mankind as a whole, which is perfect unity.
We can take real comfort from the fact that where the heart is willing, there is a way and that elusive warm feeling will come in the end.
The experience of life is complete only when there is peace in the hearts of all peoples in the world. When this peace is achieved mankind evolves to a new plane of awareness. Many people in the world already know what this awareness means.

Note: One of the principal assumptions of the I Ching is that nothing and nobody in the world is expendable, except evil.
Only within a group can an individual hope to find a suitable sphere of activity. The I Ching has a basic postulate and a basic requirement for all those who come to it for wisdom and guidance and help.
The postulate is this: All situations are in a constant state of change; nothing is fixed eternally.
In every situation (and so in ourselves), there lies the seeds of growth and change. A new situation is constantly being born. Hope, love and joy can never dry up.
The requirement is this: We must always be capable of adapting to new situations and of finding the appropriate answers to every problem; we must forever seek new food for the inner feast and be ready to digest it.
True fellowship is only possible when the world -- all countries, cultures, systems of belief -- is at peace. The inmost hearts of all peoples in the world speak the same language, this is the language of peace.
The broken hearts of the world can only be healed with the love of us all.

Ho, Palmer, O'Brien: A good leader will not want to renew the fighting because he knows how much suffering this brings to the people. He knows, however, that there are always cunning citizens ready to rebel if they are given the opportunity. Not all people can be of the same mind. There fore form friendships with those who are like-minded.

Whincup: Working on together in the open, the members of the group will achieve success. They may be fighting a war, since the top line of a hexagram is often a place of conflict.

Huangs: It is time to make peace and to let go of past bitterness.

Wei: This line occupies the top position of the hexagram ("the suburb"). It fails to form a harmonious relationship with its correlate (Line 3, Yang), indicating that its subject lacks support and cooperation and that his forces are weak. Hence the comrades are either driven to the suburb by their opponents or gather there themselves to plan some action. In either case, their aspirations have not been fulfilled, but at least they have made no mistake to cause them future regret.

Shima: Fair prognosis. End of an infectious illness. Mental exhaustion. Meningitis. Nausea. Vomiting. Depression in the elderly.

Secter: Your ideal of a relationship may be missing, but open up. It is rewarding to establish friendships with those nearby.

Gill: Welcoming these people to a walk in the meadows is safer than inviting them home.

Karcher: People are gathering at the edges of the city. There is no cause for sorrow. This group doesn't have a purpose yet. Direction: If you want things to go anywhere, you will have to peel off the dead skin. Take action. You are coupled with a creative force.

Peden: Be up front and honest in your dealings with other people, and you'll forge valuable new alliances.

 

[cal val]

Lindsay...

Wow! I mean WOW! This list is incredible. It's definitely an eye-opener...AND a keeper. Talk about different ways of perceiving a thing or a situation!

Thank you so much. I'll be back after I've digested it ALL to thank you some more.

Peace, love and understanding,

Val

 

[candid]

Just hang out awhile with others. Don't expect much. You're not in the mood for intense relationships just now anyway.

 

[louise]

Yes Lindsay, WOW ! Do you think you'd mind doing that for all the lines for us, shouldn't take you long

 

[pedro]

yeah, there's only 383 left

 

[louise]

It would be great to have a book with all the different interptetations of the lines laid out like that wouldn't it ? Be a very thick book though.

 

[lindsay]

Dear Louise,

Yup. It's about 5,000 pages long. Ten big binders.

Lindsay