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I need help with Hex 3 (changing 2 and 4) converts #58

luz

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Hi,

I'm new to this site and to I Ching.
I got a question from a friend. She wants to know what a particular encounter with her love interest means. He had pursued her a little bit and she had given him a bad feedback but now she likes him and in this particular encounter he seemed to be interested again after a time of indifference on his part.
I did the hexagram for her and got a Hex 3 that converts to Hex 58. I put the two together and I thought I could interpret that it's hard for him to initiate contact (he seems really shy). The situation looks rather favorable but I am at loss trying to intepret the changing lines.
Chaging line two talks about difficulties, he's not a robber... (I interpreted that he has the intention to pursue her but doesn't know if it's the right time) and the Changing line 4 says 'to go brings good fortune). In general I have a hard time knowing if this advice is for my friend or for the subject of our inquiry which is after all the one whose brain we are trying to pick here... I'll appreciate any insight. I really look forward to getting experience in these readings so I can learn how to use the I ching.
 

stuart

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Looks good for a future long term relationship.One person controls the romance;so that the other will always remain interested.Slow growth and other hinderences will eventually lead to a strong commitment.
 

dobro p

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Hex 3 is about difficult beginnings, which applies to this relationship.

3.2 perfectly describes the situation - first the rejection, then acceptance after some time.

3.4 talks about a *very* positive liaison, and even the images speak of marriage.

A slow beginning, but a very positive relationship emerges.
 

luz

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Wow. Thanks o much to Stuart and Dobro. If you get a chance, Dobro, maybe explain to me about how you figure out 3.4 I don't see it.
I wonder if it's worth it at all for me to continue to try to get answers as I seem basically clueless... Maybe I better wait until I know more. How was it when you guys got started, did you make many mistakes or do you think that even not knowing too much you can find your way in the I Ching???
Thanks again. I look forward to one day being able to help others like you do.
 

gene

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Lightangel

It is a little bit dangerous for a man to show an interest in a woman who has previously rejected him. It can cost him dearly socially. The second and fourth lines are both yin, therefore, I think the answer refers mostly to her. Your friend probably wasn't sure of him at first, and wanted time to analyze the situation, to see if he would be in any way right for her. Karcher says of line two, drop the hostility. I am sure she does not feel hostile toward him, but there has been a distancing in the past. I suspect she will need to show him her sincerity before he can safely commit too much. Then there is the potential for friends to join together for friendship and discussion. (hexagram 58).When we go to the next hexagram in the pair, # 4, we see in the corresponding lines 3 and 5 (See Karcher's discussion on pairings in the I Ching. Do a search here for that) line 5 shows there is something hidden in the situation, and the person is waiting for the right time. In line three the renovation of a corrupt situation is needed. When lines 3 and 5 change, we have hexagram 57, the other paired with 58. Here we see that a gradual influence is needed. This pairs well with line 3 of hexagram 3 where it says that it will be a while before the connection is made, but in the end all goes well.

Gene
 

luz

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Gene,

Your comments are really insightful. In fact, my friend happens to be rather young and while she felt interest in the person in question, she was unable to show this and actually came across as indifferent or even annoyed. I can see how this is something that needs to be repaired and she needs to show, as you say, her sincerity.
Also, I am now intrigued about the hexagram pairing and I'm sure that this information will add a little bit to my miniscule skills at this point.
 

luz

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Hi again, it was months ago I posted this thread and got good help from some of you. This is about my friend (I'll call her "X") and her love interest ("Y"). I am now renewing it in the hope that I can get more help from you guys.

It has been a while and the connection has not been made yet, as predicted. Y makes little advances and then retreats. X is pretty passive and my common sense tells me she should try to be a little more active and show her interest more.

We consult the Yi and sometimes this seems to be the right path, but sometimes the answers are ambigous and, quite honestly, I want to make sure I am not giving her the wrong kind of advice. When it comes to my own readings I can try to interpret and if I go wrong it's just my own problem but it really scares me to think I might be giving her too much hope or steering her in the wrong direction. Also, of course, I like to compare my interpretations to those from the more experienced and knowledgable.

These are the last readings:

1. What does his last bout indifference mean?

10.1.2.3->33

It seems to me like he is trying to do things and he finds himself in 'danger' and then retreats, speciall line 3 which talks about the tiger snapping. So basically, he's retreating because he finds obstacles.

2. Is he still interested in her?

17.5->51
This sounds positive to me, although I'm not sure about the role of hex 51 in this question.

3. What is his approach to this situation?

26.3->41
This I looked up in the forum and I have seen it interpreted as progressing in spite of difficulties. So, I would think that he's intending to go on in spite of the obstacles.

And now, the dreaded marrying maiden! We got it in several answers:

4. What should X know about this situation?
54.1.2.4->2
Line 4 sounds promising, but does hex 54 always imply an 'inferior' situation? And I have a hard time with 2 as the resulting hex (and 1 as the resulting hex for that matter) I don't know if it means that in th context of receptiveness she will eventually get the guy but in a less than ideal situation?

5. Are they ever going to get together?
46.1.3.4->54
Pushing upward sounds good, leading to the marrying maiden... I say the answer is yes but I am not sure about hex 54

6. What will happen if she takes the initiative?
16.2.6->64
I'm not sure about this one, I hear line 16.6 is about being deluded but 16.2 seems to offer the advice of changing her limits which seem to point to yes, taking some initiative, plus hex 64 seems positive...

7. What will happen if she does nothing?
49.2.3.5->54
Again the marrying maiden! Again it seems like things lead somewhere but... maybe it's not ideal.

This is a long post. I hope I do get some responses. I really appreciate any comments and/or help with this. Thanks in advance.
 

heylise

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What should X know about this situation?
54.1.2.4->2

IMO the most ideal connection between a man and a woman is, when both can be real Man, and both can be real Woman. Not all men like it when a woman expresses her man. Women usually have less trouble with a man expressing his woman, but there are many women who don?t like it, who want a man who is Man every minute of his life.
Here, it seems that the problem is rather that she does not yet be Woman to him. If he lets her express her man, then she can also express her woman totally, because he accepts her as a whole person. He will not use his position as man to overrule her. Expressing Woman has a lot to do with hexagram 2, in a universal sense, and with 54 in human relations. Like the earth surrenders totally to heaven, so Woman surrenders totally to Man. Which does not mean a woman should surrender to a man, only her Woman to his Man. No idea if what I say is clear?
It might be that he is waiting, or hoping, for that Woman.

In hex.54 all yang lines are changing. All yang becomes yin. Does she dare to be totally yin for him?

Lise
 

luz

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Lise,
Thanks for your intriguing response. I think I understand what you are saying, I'm just not sure what it really means to be totally yin... or to be yin, for that matter.
If I was to imagine what it is to be yin, I think I would come up with some bad stereotypes, so that goes to show how little I know. If I was to interpret this within the context I would venture that perhaps she should be more passive and to not try to take control?
If you could explain a little bit how we act yin or yang in general, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
 

julie

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Think of receptivity more than passivity. Openness.

Marrying maiden is definitely not always negative. It's about moving toward union, but doing it in a distinctly female way, and recognizing that you don't have a lot of power. It's a situation where you can't just push forward and make things happen; you need to accept the limitations of the situation and look for ways to make it positive for yourself. It certainly seems from these readings that 54 is key to this situation.

I'm impressed by the positiveness of the initial reading. Also, 17.5 is very positive about his feelings about her -- 51 is an indication that she shakes him up, that he's into her but scared by her and by the possibilities of the relationship.

Overall, it looks to me like she really needs to stay calm, stay positive, and accept that it's going to be a slow process.
 

luz

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Julie, thanks for your response. I really appreciate people's input and you are one of the people I respect most from your postings. Needless to say, Lise's response is an honor to me, I love her website and i usually find the most inspiring aspect of a reading there.

I can't help but think that not everybody is meant to be a diviner, I think somebody said it in a post (maybe Brad?) and I tend to think it's true. And yet, in the modern world all we need is a couple of books and three coins and we can play the 'sage'. I don't want to be down on myself, I still think I can develop some intuition but it seems like it's a 53 and 46 sort or thing very gradual progress with a lot of work involved. It might not sound like work but it's an effort. I think I know some of the steps I have to take but I'm not sure I have it in me to resolutely start taking them. In any case, I have a lot of respect for the people in this forum. I keep saying that. The truth is this is the first forum I've ever been in, so I'm not used to seeing so many people with such similar talents in one place. It's funny because a lot of people would think that Yi diviners must be a flaky bunch and yet I find that everyone here seems so smart, so articulated, with lots of common sense... If I had only found a couple books and never found this forum I don't think I would believe in the Yi so much. I would have written it off by now. And that would make a big difference in the way my life is lived going forward. So, thanks again to everyone and I'm sorry for the long, off topic post, I'm feeling very verbose this morning, I guess.
 

julie

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Oh Lightangel, have patience! I look back on some of my early interpretations of readings, and I didn't have a clue. I think my process would have been much, much slower -- if it had happened at all -- without help.

Thanks so much for your compliment! I am especially honored since I haven't been a very regular poster around here, though I've been reading it for about three years off and on. I'm glad to hear that my posts have been helpful for others too!

May I make a bit of a plug for our wonderful host? I haven't done Hilary's I Ching course -- yet -- but I've gotten quite a few consultations from her, and she is truly fabulous. My guess is that her course is also fabulous, and just the thing for someone without a lot of experience with Yi.

Julie
 

luz

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Hi everyone,

I've been meaning to update this thread at least to verify some of the answers we received in the past.

From the initial responses, there seems to be a mutual attraction. But things are just SO DIFFICULT for them. She gets a lot of 53 and believe me, if there is progress going on it is very gradual. And difficulty at the beginning! tell me about it.

In any case, I have also come to understand Lise's take on her needing to be very yin a little better. I have seen some signs that he is very 'yang' and just the way he talks, the way his flirting jokes are... I can see how he wants a 'yin' woman in his ideal.

There was some progress, it is obvious he likes her, but then there was a falling out of sorts. She talked to him, he was rather nice for a day but now he's indifferent again. I do think he is not really sure about her feelings for her. She's not really very forthcoming, too shy and insecure, really. Obviously, she's not very sure about his feelings either...

In any case, I think the readings so far have been pretty accurate. Whether there is really a happy ending, remains to be seen.

I have a few readings on this and it would be great if anybody wanted to take a stab at it.

--->What does the indifference mean?
31.3 ->45
31 and 45 so positive, but the line.... the line doesn't look good.

---> Is there substance behind this connection?
64.6 -> 40
Sounds more like a warning to me.

---> How does he feel about her?
7 Explain: 18.2 -> 52
Seven totally mistifies me in this context, hence the clarification. Seems more like a response to what he feels about the situation, maybe he does want to fix it?

---> What will he do next?
38.4.5 -> 61
It sounds good as far as the way being open to him, but what does it mean in terms of what he'll do about the relationship...

---> What should she do?
55.3.4 -> 24
I know this hex is about not being sad... 58.3 talks about not being able to act. Wonder if she should give up.

---> What is the situation between them?
14.1.2.5.6 -> 31
This just throws me off. It sounds pretty positive but in real life it doesn't look that positive at all.

---> What if she approaches him?
14.4.5 -> 9
Not sure about that hex 9... otherwise it might look good

---> What will happen if she doesn't approach him?
36.6 -> 22

Oh! and one more thing, there seems to be an ex-girlfriend in the picture who seems to be interested in him! So one more question:
---> Does this girl pose a threat to this relationship?
15 (baffled - asked for clarification)
26.2.3.6 -> 24
If the question was a little different, I'd say this is very positive for "the other girl"... but I'm not sure.

Well, you get the picture. Any help is appreciated. I find this interesting because things have happened in a way that kind of confirm the readings. On the other hand, although they have always been positive, I know that these are just tendencies, the wind could be blowing from another direction at any time so that's why you need to keep on asking, I feel... Understandably, my friend would like to move on if things are not going anywhere...
Hey, I'm sure this is terribly boring for most of you out there, but be a helping hand... THANKS
 
C

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Lightangel,

I know many who disagree with this, but I believe that Yi often speaks to what is behind the question rather than to the question itself. This is how I'm reading most of the questions you've asked and the answers received. If the question is "here" and the answer speaks to "there", it's no wonder that confusion is the outcome. I suggest you reexamine these readings from this perspective.

Consider that if the foundation of a question is weak or unfounded, then the answer will speak first to the foundation. If the fundaments are improperly structured, then the fundaments need to be adjusted before a clear answer can satisfy the clear question.

Let?s say you?re about to take an exam. You ask Yi ?what is the answer to question number 4?? The Yi gives you hexagram 7 as an answer. Is the answer to the test question ?The Army?? Or, is the answer ?you need to study and prepare for this test??
 

luz

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Candid!

I think I agree with you regarding that the Yi might respond to something else, but wouldn't it be trying to tell me (or the subject of the question) something about a particular issue that it wants to talk about, wouldn't the answers be somehow related, forming a pattern, which I fail to see.

When you talk about the 'foundation' of the question, do you mean assumptions or do you mean the question itself is flawed? Do you mean that the person should be able to figure out the answers if they 'do their homework'? (as in your example)...

and how do you see the disconnect, do you think the answers are in conflict with each other or that the answers don't address the question?

I am confused but in a good way because it's food for thought.
 
C

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Confused, but in a good way. lol.. I like that.

"wouldn't it be trying to tell me (or the subject of the question) something about a particular issue that it wants to talk about"

Not necessarily. "It" may have nothing in particular it wants to talk about. It speaks about what you ask, but not always in the way you ask it. Your questions are chiefly regarding "him", or are asking for future telling. The Yi speaks to the person who asks the question and about their underlying focus and reasons for their interest in knowing. There is always a teaching behind every answer it gives, if we?re able to hear it. That is the bigger picture we are concerned with here. It wouldn?t further you or your friend to know what this other person is thinking, but it could further you or your friend to understand the dynamics at work in this relationship, and what course of action or non-action would be most advantageous for her.
 

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