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If Wishes Were Horses . . .

lindsay

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Star light, star bright,
First star I see tonight,
I wish I may, I wish I might,
Have the wish I wish tonight.

Have you ever wished for something special to help you understand the Yi? Some piece of information or bit of translation, some useful book or website, some new idea or interpretation? I have.

I can think of three good reasons to wish upon this string:

(1) Someone may be able to grant your wish. There is so much stuff out there about the Yi or related to the Yi, who can find it all? Yet each one of us probably knows some little tidbit that might be exactly what someone else looking for.

(2) Someone may be listening who is looking for ideas. Gene is thinking of writing a book. LiSe already has an outstanding and ever-growing website. Hilary has written some of the best information and advice about Yi divination to be found anywhere in print. Other authorities come by now and then. In my opinion, there is still so much to do that anyone who wants to can make a valuable contribution to Yi studies and research.

(3) We tend to emphasize what we know, but sometimes it is very interesting to talk about what we don?t know. After all, that is the frontier, the edge. I bet we discover many of us are wishing we had the same things.

It?s easy. Just close your eyes and say, ?I wish I had a . . .? Or, ?I wish I could find out about . . .? Or, ?I wish there was . . .?

A few items from my wish list:

· I wish there was a reliable edition of the full Chinese text with an interlinear English translation and lots of notes explaining textual problems and various interpretations. This edition would collate all known early manuscripts. Bradford Hatcher is about 60% there, but unfortunately it?s the other 40% I really want to know.
· I wish someone would put together a dictionary of I Ching terms. I never seem to remember what a Mutual Gua is, or the Fuxi sequence, or Plum Blossom numerology, or a constituting ruling line, or the Yellow River Map. Wouldn?t it be great if all this stuff (and lots more) was collected in one place, and we could just look it up?
· I wish somebody would write a brief history of I Ching interpretation in China. There are supposedly hundreds, even thousands of Chinese commentaries, but what do they say? I don?t have time to read them all, but I?d love to know what they are about, generally speaking.
· I wish someone would explain to me where all the little pictures come from in Chinese etymologies. How do we know what they really are? Some of them are clear, but others . . . Is that a winnow rake or a lampshade?
· I wish someone besides Carol Anthony would write a book about the philosophy of the I Ching.
· I wish somebody would talk about the Westernization and modernization of the Yi. So many people are hung up on the ancient Chinese tradition that we are missing the fact that we are creating an entirely new tradition here in the West. This pioneering work is going on right here on this website, as we try to use the Yi to make sense of our daily lives in the modern world. I think about this a lot, but I?d love to read something someone smart has to say about it.
· I wish someone would give some thought to what an advanced grasp of the I Ching would involve. We have dozens of introductions for beginners ? but who has written a guidebook for intermediate and advanced users? I don?t even know what such a guide would talk about. Do you?

That?s a few items on my wish list. I?ll probably think of a dozen more later. How about you? Is there something you wish for?

Lindsay
 
C

candid

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I wish my intuitive nature would hurry up and develop so I wouldn?t have to throw coins to get my reading. Yes, yes Yi, I know, I know - #5. *sigh*

heh heh
 

lenardthefast

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Hi Candid,

Have been reading a lot of Robert Anton Wilson lately. One chapter distinguishes eight types of intelligence:
1. Bio-Survival Intelligence-"seems mostly genetic and tells an animal or human how to find the nourishing and 'supportive' and how to avoid the predatory and toxic."
2. Emotional-Territorial Intelligence-"partly genetic and partly 'learned'....it tells us how to read the 'body language' of another and know what the other is 'feeling'(and, hence, what it will probably do next)"
3. Semantic Intelligence-"based on genetic potential and early imprints but mostly learned slowly, over years, from peers and instructors. It allows us to understand one or two symbol systems(or even several if we are clever) and perhaps to create a symbol-system of our own, sometimes."
4. Socio-Sexual Intelligence-"allows us to manage our social and sexual relations in ways that keep us reasonably happy, or, at least out of jail."

The next four are supposedly rare in Western society.

5. Neurosomatic Intelligence-"the 'wisdom of the body' that holistic medicine addresses"
6. Neurogenetic Intelligence-"access to the 'collective unconscious' or 'species mind' where archetypes like the 'inward-turning spiral' or King Kong are stored and, when activated, trigger leaps of intuition."
7. Metaprogramming Intelligence-"the capacity to turn on and tune in to each type of intelligence as needed."
8. Non-Local Intelligence-"which enables one to endure 'mystical' experiences without losing one's sanity."

He then goes on to say,"Our schools only teach Sematic Intelligence(and only a primitive Aristotelian variety of that, unless you go on to major in physics)."

Sounds like you are yearning for numbers 6/7; me too!

Namaste
Leonard
 

lindsay

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Dear Candid and Leonard,

You?re right, Candid! I always think the answer is hidden in some old book somewhere, but I?d trade all that for a keener sense of intuition. Do you think one can develop one?s intuition? Intuitive push-ups and crunches?

Leonard, that analysis of various intelligences is really, really interesting! To me, at least. And I wonder about the same thing ? can these various intelligences be developed? I tend to think of IQ as something we?re born with ? like eye color. Doesn?t change throughout life, genetics is fate. Is this the wrong paradigm? And what about those rarer forms of intelligence ? anything we can do to smarten up there?

Lindsay
 

django

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Good post Lindsay,especially about "going to the edge", But I am sure you know that opens up a whole can of worms. I am of the opinion that predudice stems from endemic fear of the unknown...
It is nice to stay within boundries which have been examined and safely lived with.

Those who choose to push those boundries further out will always experience violent opposition from the group be it small or society at large.

The "new" will always be treated with deep suspicion and fear. It must be said that this is not at all unreasonable, and the Trojan horse is surely a good example that "boundry pushers" are not always right.

Right, having said that I am in agreement with you Lindsay, safe boundries = stagnation!. let me float this one by you. One of Jung's worrying contentions, I feel was that,"our Psyche"is not ours[singular] but is in fact plural made up of many entities, spirits, voices etc ie Pink Floyds classic Dark side of the Moon lyric "there's someone in my head and its not me"
If you think I am implying that every one is somewhat Schizophrenic,well yes, I am to a certain extent. We may not call those "irrepresible" really off the wall thoughts we all have, voices, but they really influence us to a certain extent. This is where I think the I Ching comes in. It takes, it as a given that you [ego] are only a piece[and not the whole] of the jig-saw which is your psyche. Those oracles which seem to have ignored your question and given meaningless answers,are in fact dealing with a part of "your" psyche which is not
you[as Ego] The I Ching in my opinion spells this out [multiplicity] very clearly ie in the 7th Hexagram... That authority is not being exercised by the proper leaders, but has been usurped by others,,,If the multitude assumes leadership of the Army, misfortune will ensue.

57th Hexagram 9 in the 2nd,,,At times one has to deal with hidden enemies, intangible influences that slink into dark corners and from this hiding affect people by suggestion

58th Hexagram 9 in the 5th,,,Sincerity to wards disintegrating influences,,,,,dangerous elements approach even the best of men etc

8th Hexagram 6 in the third place,,, You hold together with the wrong people etc

I think that only when this uncomfortable fact is realised[ and accepted] regarding the multiplicity
of "your" psyche can the I Ching set about your redemption.{sorry this post is a bit long but it is a very complex subject,I'm sure you'll agree.
Django.
 

hilary

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Ouf! Just as I turn up to offer some relaxed, unprofound thoughts about my Yi-wishes, this has turned into a petrifyingly profound discussion of quite a lot else...

...ambient thoughts...

Probably Yi divination is the nearest we have to intuitive press-ups. That and imagination, or playful guesswork.

In a way it would be nice to have infallible intuition. In another way, it's a good experience to be surprised (or bowled over backwards) by Yi regularly. The hexagram 51 experience has things going for it, I think.

Multiple parts of the self... isn't there something about that in Hua Ching Ni's I Ching? Humans having several different spirits, and Taoist practice being the way to prevent them from going their separate ways at death? (I've never got very far with this book, so don't take the above as gospel. What I like most about it is the cover, which reads:
I CHING. The Book of Changes and the Unchanging Truth.
Revised edition)
(But incidentally, Django, what you quote is partly just Wilhelm's commentary, not Yi proper, and partly open to translation in some quite different ways.)

By a Herculean effort, back to the wish-list!
I'll sign up to all of Lindsay's (and hope maybe he might write one or two of them himself...).

Also:

- I'd like my character-by-character translation to include the latest in etymological information on every character of every wing. If there's a recurrent base image or radical through a hexagram or through a line, I'd love to know. LiSe, do you have a spare moment to provide this?


- I'd also like an interlinear translation of the Shijing, so I could be more confident about the parts that seem so close to the Yi. And while the fairy godmother is at work, maybe the Book of Rites, too?

- How many actual readings and their results have been recorded through Chinese history? Surely there must be a lot - I want them in translation! (Want it, want it, want it, now, now, now!! Hmm. Lindsay, are you sure you should be encouraging me in this?)


Maybe what I'm really saying is that I want the courage (and time) to get off my rear end and learn to read some Chinese. Which of my many missing intelligences do I need to cultivate here?
 

hilary

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Oh yes, I also want an injection of whichever intelligence allows certain people (Candid...) to write swift, intuitive, succint readings without fussing around over interlinear translations!
 
C

candid

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Dear Hillary,

You answered your own question.

Question/request: Oh yes, I also want an injection of whichever intelligence allows certain people to write swift, intuitive, succinct readings without fussing around over interlinear translations!

Answer: Probably Yi divination is the nearest we have to intuitive press-ups. That and imagination, or playful guesswork.

By repetition the pupil makes the work his (her) own.

If Yi isn't intuitive, then I'm at a loss to know what it is. It not only reads our present and future, it reads our own mind. What linear transaction can do that?

Ok, here's a little exercise. When you first wake up in the morning, examine yourself, your state of mind and your emotional set. See yourself coming to meet the day. Then ask, what hexagram is this I'm seeing? After the hexagram comes to you, study it in your mind. See if it really feels right. Later, throw a Ching with your same question/request. See if they're either the same or closely related. I think you may be surprised.

This exercise isn't linear. Its intuitive. So in a sense, we have to get out of our own way in order to see it. We have to trust and be willing to risk being wrong or off the mark. But I think you may be surprised at how often you are spot on.

How does this happen? Damned if I know. Lots of theoretical explanations.

Ok, so how does this fit into interpreting for another? Same way. Let it come together as you communicate it. You don't have to know in your little self. Your big self already knows and is more than willing to speak it.

The more I analyze it the less substance it has. Its like my earliest big fish dreams. The more I fought it, the closer it got to the boat, the more it disappeared, until finally, it was gone.

Try and grasp it and its gone. But if it flows through you, let it flow, and be brave enough to be wrong. Chances are, you'll be on.

Uncle
 

django

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Hi Hilary thanks for your comments, you are right my comments are based on the Wilhelm translation as I said in a previous post this translation really " vibrates for me" I am afraid Karcher and co and all my other translations all gather dust on my book case. I agree there other translations which give an altogether different reading.

However the point I was trying to make, and I think this applies to nearly all the others except for the sweet and sickly... Is sometimes <U>the querant is the medium between the I Ching and those, other "residents" of the psyche</U>.[

Ones personal Daimons perhaps,..... be there such a thing!!!]
Django.
 

lenardthefast

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Hi Lindsay,

IMHO there seems to be no 'concrete' paradigm. We are what we 'will' ourselves to be. Our 'will' seems capable of allowing us to do whatever we wish. We just have to really 'want' what we wish.
Want it so strongly that we are able to sacrifice all other things for that ONE thing. All other things...that seems a rocky road for us Westerners. And I believe thats why we have such a difficult time attaining our wishes. Wishing only requires the statement, utilizing the full and effective force of our 'will' requires supreme dedication and always involves sacrifice.

When I wish to accomplish something and I understand that this something has great meaning for me, I tuck it into my brainpan and examine it very throughly, turning it over and around and upside down, looking at it from all the possible angles and perceptions I can muster. Sometimes it happens quickly and attainment requires only a small sacrifice, other things have been tucked away for years before I was able to perform the sacrifice needed to manifest them. Still other things required so much 'will' that I had to completely redesign my life in order to reach manifestation.

So, I guess to answer your question I would say forget the 'genetic' predispositions that 'science' has imprinted on us. Discover how to mainfest YOUR 'will' and ALL things become possible. Utilizing the effective force of one's 'will' can, at times, seem to be the most impossible thing one can encounter.

There are no 'impossibilities', we are capable of achieving all we desire, we just have to be 'willing' to make the sacrifice.

Namaste,
Leonard
 

louise

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Intuition ? The more you ignore it the more distant and unreachable it becomes. Like Candid implies I don't think you have to work at it as such, more like allow it and be available for it.

Occasionally, though more and more often whilst throwing the coins, half way through I seem to 'hear' an answer in my head before the casting is even finished. Seems almost like being interrupted, and what I 'hear' seems quite unexpected and new to me. Then I feel quite sure that that is the answer and wonder whether to continue with the casting. I always do complete the casting anyway which is always quite consonant with the answer I 'heard'. Its good when this happens, saves me alot of time trying to figure out the meaning of the words.

Please note I already feel pretty well inhibited posting here, so if you feel my post is 'sweet and sickly' please do me the kindness of keeping it to yourself.
 

louise

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To save confusion that last sentence was aimed at Django - I may have misunderstood him - am just well sick of being referred to obliquely.
 

lindsay

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There seem to be three or four different conversations going on here, and I want to respond to all of them. So much for my wishlist string!

Intuition
Candid and Louise know what they are talking about on this subject, they both have a great deal of experience doing readings. Louise has discussed before her ability to anticipate readings as they are being cast, and I still find that to be an amazing power. Candid suggests jumping out of bed and identifying which hexagram one feels like today ? as though it was the most natural thing in the world to understand the emotional mindset associated with each of the 64 symbols! Personally I might be able to do this for 6 or 8 obvious hexagrams, but that still leaves more than 50 I?m not sure about.

[Note: I wish I had something that would help me identify hexagrams with states of mind. In fact, I wish somebody would explain how to use the Yi in a convincing way for self-examination and self-development.]

Lately, though, I?ve been thinking about a sort of vague theory of ?inner resources?. It all started when a friend of mine told me about a mutual acquaintance who was having a lot of trouble living in retirement. Now that he isn?t going off to work, this man cannot seem to figure out what to do with himself all day. He is bored, restless, anguished, irritable. ?Jack?s problem,? my friend said, ?is that he doesn?t have any inner resources.? Inner resources? Vague, yes, but somehow I knew exactly what my friend meant. Later it occurred to me that to be a good reader of the Yi, one needed ?inner resources,? the more the better. Intuition is one of these, but not the only one. I?m still thinking about what ?inner resources? includes. Any ideas?

Psychic Structure and Dynamics
Responding to Django, I must say that no theory of the psyche seems right to me that does not account for inner conflict. And conflict requires the existence of multiple psychic components contending against each other. Freud had his ego, id, and superego. Jung also identified multiple psychic components. It is hard to imagine a dynamic view of the psyche that does not posit multiple strong contenders for control over our personalities and behaviors. If the software of the mind was fully integrated (and fully compatible), we would never experience doubt or indecision or inconsistent emotions or regrettable behaviors. We would, in effect, be automatons. Fully predictable.

So it seems reasonable to me that we might divine answers directed toward various psychic components. I?m pretty sure the Yi told me to put the beast back in the box a few days ago, even though that wasn?t exactly an answer to my question. Maybe this is actually one of the more valuable features of the Yi, since some of these psychic components seem to be irrational, dark, hard to grasp, and difficult to control.

Wish vs. Will
Responding to Leonard, I find myself agreeing, but feeling very uncomfortable about it. To wish for something is merely to express a desire. There is no necessary commitment to doing anything toward actively satisfying that desire. I want a good Chinese text of the Yi, but there is no way I?d be crazy enough to try to produce one myself. Wishes, simple expressions of desire, were what I was fishing for in starting this string.

Will is the determination to realize our desires. It can be very powerful, as Leonard suggests. Surely there can be no better testament to the power of will than this website! Hilary has created an internet divination business out of nothing against all odds as well as the vehicle to promote and support it. How many professional I Ching diviners do you know? Not exactly a well-marked career path.

But will isn?t everything. If it was, three year-old children would rule the world! In addition to will, one needs talent and ability. No matter how hard we try, most of us will never be world-class athletes or concert violinists or astro-physicists. We just don?t have what it takes. And at least one more thing is needful: vision. We need to be able to see what can and should be accomplished. Not everything is possible. King Canute can command the tides to retreat all day, but . . . they won?t respond to his will. And of course not everything that can be done should be done, no matter how much we want it. That is one reason we have laws.

So I guess I see the orbit of individual human possibilities as being a little narrower than Leonard does. I think the Yi probably acknowledges the limits of the possible.

Lindsay
 

django

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Hi just a line to louise firstly I am sorry that you felt this "barb" was aimed at you. This could not be further from the truth, I try, and never attack anyone on personal issues.[ I left another forum for precisely this reason]

What I was refering to, were those "new age"printed in sepia, smelling of pot pouri
I Ching books in pseudo spiritual bookshops.

I hope this clears this issue up.
Django.
 

heylise

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A very good Chinese text at http://www.yijing.btinternet.co.uk/ , the website of Steve Marshall (the one who wrote ?The Mandate of Heaven?). A good website, and I think it will become big and full of information. It is already very interesting.
The text is the Harvard-Yenching Zhouyi, the text every scholar uses. I have been trying to find it for months, and now suddenly it is here, easy to download. Print it out with BIG characters, so you can see what characters or parts of characters recur in a hexagram.
Combine it with the word-for-word translation of Ritsema-Karcher.
I also want for every character the etymology, so that is what I am going to do, but it will take YEARS. Looking forward to so many interesting years!
The notes I want too, Marshall did already a great job, but there is much more of course.

Chinese text of the Shi Jing with the translation by Legge at http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/chinese/


?I also want an injection of whichever intelligence allows certain people to write swift, intuitive, succinct readings? ?like Hilary! That?s what I wish myself.

Namaste
LiSe
 

louise

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Theres two totally different kinds of anticipating castings for me - totally unrelated. First kind is where because you know the hexagrams so well by the time you get to line 4 or 5 you know there can only be a certain outcome - you've already thrown 5 yin lines - so you know you are going to get either 2 or 23 - no power involved there. Thats the kind I may have discussed elsewhere as a bit irritating because you don't want to jump ahead of yourself.

Second kind is where you are busy throwing the coins or whatever and some sentence comes into your head - not from Yi - that almost stops you in your tracks - seeming crystal clear. When that has happened I don't dismiss it anymore, just take it on board, carry on with the casting and am amazed to find Yi supporting that flash from who knows where.

Doesn't this happen to anyone else ? Should I seek professional help for delusional tendencies ?
 

lenardthefast

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Hi Louise,

I've had similar experiences many times. I don't regard them as delusional in the least. My advice is to stay away from the 'professionals', with the exception being Hilary, of course!

Namaste,
Leonard
 

louise

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Hi Leonard, re seeking help, was only joking, but am so glad someone else has had the same experience. Incidentally as I was trying to get to sleep I suddenly thought "Why is Leonard called Lenardthefast ?" Amazing what profound thoughts come to me late at night -hee hee. Are you a fast runner, a fast liver ? What makes Leonard fast ?
 
C

candid

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Hi Louise,

Many would call it delusional, I'm sure. However, since this thread has been focusing on the subject of intuition, I'd say you have active receptors. Those flashes are insights that comes from "who knows where?" We've already discussed collective-mind concepts and more spiritual implications. I don't know exactly where it comes from but I'm inclined to see it as both, collective and "spiritual". I rarely use the word, spiritual, anymore but I believe its applicable in this context.

I think we have much in common as to how we relate to the I-Ching phenomenon.

Candid
 

lenardthefast

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Hi Louise,

I work in the motorcycle aftermarket industry. It was a nickname given to me by some friends with regard to my attempts at motorcycle racing. After reviewing my performance last year I have been considering changing it to Lenardthealmostfast.

Namaste,
Leonard
 

lindsay

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I am extremely grateful to Hilary and LiSe for calling attention to Steve Marshall?s new Yijing website. The material presented on this site is extremely helpful. And I could almost cry with joy at seeing the Harvard-Yenching edition freely available on the web! I?ve already downloaded, edited, and printed the whole thing ? and begun making notes. As LiSe mentioned, this edition is the gold standard for all serious work on the Yi, and has been extremely difficult to find outside of big libraries for many years.

In the early-1980?s Harvard was cleaning out their book warehouses, and since I lived in the area, I saw many of their out-of-print Asian books pass through the local bookshops. I actually held a brand new copy of the Harvard-Yenching I Ching in my hand, noted the price of $20, and put it back on the shelf. Who would want such a technical book about so obscure a work as the I Ching? Ten years later I would have paid 10 times that price for a copy!

Anyway, looking over this new website almost makes me feel like studying again.

Thanks for making one of my wishes come true!

Lindsay

PS - Lenardthelingering? Lenardthelanguorous? Lenardthelanguishing?
 

lenardthefast

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Dear Louise,

You have no idea how much joy it brings to my heart to discover I have provided a source of entertainment for your ever-active mind. The truth be known though, I expect to live up to my nomdeplume once again; just as soon as this white, slippery goop disappears from the roadways. I truly appreciate the effort, Louisethelinguist.
;-))

Namaste
Leonard
 

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