Images or text??

[mary f]

It's been a while I've been wanting to ask you this.

Do you happen to have experiences or even some pattern to determine when Yi's answer is shown in the image or when it's shown purely based on the text?

One example is when my dog gave birth. We had an ultrasound and it showed 4 cubs. The delivery went very well in the first three, one every 10 minutes. The 4th did not come in the next hour. I called the vet, who came and tried all ways to induce labor, sore touches, injections, and even tweezers. No success. I asked Yi "Is the 4th puppy about to come?". Answer: 37:6>>63.

Nine at the top means:
His work commands respect.'
In the end good fortune comes.

I was very nervous, read the text over and over, read the interpretations and could not understand at all. We took the dog to the clinic to operate (there are no X-Ray whatsoever here in my village). Asepsis and anesthesia applied to the dog. I was waiting outside for about ten minutes when the vet came and said: I have not operated her. I'm sure there is no other puppy to come. And she was right.

I have other examples, of course, but this is more illustrative. In some situations it is kind of difficult to identify when the answer is in the image and when is in the text, either literally or not. I've seen some freaking cases of litteral answers.

Tks.

 

[Liselle]

Mary F, when you say "image," do you mean the diagram of the hexagram, or the "Image" section of the I Ching?

Since you're contrasting "image" to "text," it sounds like you mean the diagram, but I just wanted to make sure.

 

[bradford]

I think you have to look at both the structure (xiangshu school) and the words (yili school).
But it's also important to not go overboard with either. That's an easier trap to fall into with the structure, but it's also easy to be misguided by the words, which tend to be taken literally rather than metaphorically.

 

[sooo]

Cognition is most acute when all facilities are employed. But some things are so obvious that recognition is instantaneous. Even then it's always a good idea to chew your food.

 

[pocossin]

I asked Yi "Is the 4th puppy about to come?"

The problem here is that maybe there was a mistake in interpreting the ultrasound, so there wasn't a 4th puppy. 37.6 could be read as end of family and 63 is "Already Complete," implying there was no more, but in the stress of the moment I doubt that I would have been able to make this interpretation.

 

[mary f]

Mary F, when you say "image," do you mean the diagram of the hexagram, or the "Image" section of the I Ching?

Since you're contrasting "image" to "text," it sounds like you mean the diagram, but I just wanted to make sure.

Hi lisa. I think it's the so called diagram because I do not mean the "Image" section.
In the event with my dog for example, the text did not tell me anything, but the idea the hexagram transmits is of a complet(ed) family with a finalized process as background.
Tks.

 

[mary f]

I think you have to look at both the structure (xiangshu school) and the words (yili school).
But it's also important to not go overboard with either. That's an easier trap to fall into with the structure, but it's also easy to be misguided by the words, which tend to be taken literally rather than metaphorically.

I've seen those traps. Sometimes I'd prefer to go with the idea given by the structure (when it's more favourable, of course ), but intuitively I grasp the trap most of the times. Sometimes it's the opposite, maybe more difficult to grasp. That's where my concern is, when I do not read the sign, the diagram, like what happened in the dog situation.

But there are occasions when the words are to be taken literally and if you don't notice, when the a-ha moment turns to .

I'll work on those schools you said. Thanks.

 

[mary f]

The problem here is that maybe there was a mistake in interpreting the ultrasound, so there wasn't a 4th puppy. 37.6 could be read as end of family and 63 is "Already Complete," implying there was no more, but in the stress of the moment I doubt that I would have been able to make this interpretation.

Definitely Tom, that's exactly what happened. They've never accepted the claim or returned my money by the way and this reading is always haunting me, because it has put my dog in such a risk and unnecessary pain.

 

[mary f]

(...)
Even then it's always a good idea to chew your food.

Meaning?

 

[sooo]

Meaning?

Meaning, it's a good idea to contemplate and research Yi's answer, even when it appears obvious. Not all obvious answers are the most beneficial. Some are derived simply from our old habits and assumptions. It's good food, so why not make the best of it? Gulping down food misses much of the flavor, enjoyment and nourishment. A h27 approach is what I'm suggesting.

 

[Liselle]

The problem here is that maybe there was a mistake in interpreting the ultrasound, so there wasn't a 4th puppy. 37.6 could be read as end of family and 63 is "Already Complete," implying there was no more, but in the stress of the moment I doubt that I would have been able to make this interpretation.

Ah...I see what you're saying about 37.6: the last line of the hexagram, line 6, meaning "the end" of the hexagram, which in this case is 37, Family. 63 as "Complete" does stand out...but it was the relating hexagram rather than the primary, which (maybe?) muddies it a bit as the place to find "the" answer? (I mean, it clearly does say, "Complete." But I kept thinking, "But the reading wasn't 63 unchanging! So does "Complete" really mean what it seems to?" Was confused by that.)

Even with Mary F explaining what actually happened, I still didn't understand it.

But just this minute I had a thought...the line text might be about the vet. "His work commands respect": the vet came out after doing her work (examining the mother dog) and told Mary that there was no need to operate because she was sure there was no 4th puppy. One respects a vet's knowledge and ability.

To understand it, I think, would have required an expansive interpretation of "his," and "his work." Not because the vet was a woman, of course, but because at the time of asking, you wouldn't have known who the pronoun referred to. The puppy? The mother dog? The act of giving birth (if a pronoun could refer to an event)? And how would "respect" apply?

The feeling I have now about this line is that upon getting it, and having really no idea how it addresses the question, is a feeling of cupping it carefully in your hands as if it were a cloud or a cotton ball - a nebulous, fragile thing, having no weight at all - and then looking it to see what it might become, what shape it might take.

Maybe a useful method we could learn from this is to take the nebulous pronoun, make a list of everyone involved in the situation (mother dog, puppy, vet, Mary F), and try to figure out which of those the pronoun refers to by using the other words as clues? Such as thinking, "Okay, who is doing work here?" The mother dog in a way, and the vet because she's doing her job. Who "commands respect"? We respect a professional: the vet. We could also have respect for a mother giving birth, although we don't usually think of it in quite that way, probably.

Looking at more than one translation might have helped. Hilary translates the line as

"With truth and confidence like authority.
In the end, good fortune."

The only "confident authority figure" in this situation was the vet.

 

[svenrus]

Image or text ? Somehow the Image should be found in the text, I guess.
Another thing: the nuclear, or mutual- hexagram, 64, points toward a situation where things can still go wrong: "... but if the little fox, after nearly completing the crossing, gets his tail in the water, there is nothing that would further. " [Wilhelm/Baynes, hex. 64]
I see in the nuclear hexagram what I Ching is responding on and here it seems to fit with the situation...