Interacting with people 61.4.5 to 38

[ragini]

In the past few years almost all interactions with people have given me a great deal of pain. Recently I have been noticing that I am almost becoming a recluse. I am hesitating to have even the smallest of interactions with people. This is not good because in the long run it will make things even worse for me, and I realize that I need to get out of this rut and experience healthy relations once again.

I asked the Yi, moving forward how should I interact with people holistically ? I got 61.4.5

Sometimes when a hexagram has contradictory omens, it confuses me. For example the overall message of 61 is very positive and 38 talks of opposition. How should we reconcile such messages from the Yi ? How would you interpret such a reading ?

 

[yxeli]

Hello ragini,

I wonder if the oracle is asking you to delay judgement with people. Over time and after being wounded in social interactions, I think many people assume a lot about how others will interact with them. This can put up an invisible barrier between you and others, because along the way, you have been hurt and have developed a second skin that you try to protect yourself with. Often our own assumptions are to do with letting the past, and what's happened before between ourselves and others, effect how we look at the new people who enter our life in the present. I think with 61, the oracle is asking you to shed this protective skin and to empathise with others, not to assume or judge their dispositions too quickly. Allowing yourself to be vulnerable without preconceptions when interacting is a hard lesson to learn, especially if you have opened your heart to others before, and for whatever reason, friendships have disintegrated in the past. But the oracle has faith in your ability to reach out to people, (line 5), after you have gotten to grips with line 4.

Alfred Huang suggests that in line 4, you are turning away from a companion, or companions, that have not been truly honest and present with you. This might lead to a sense of isolation for a period of time, but distancing yourself from these people who are possibly wearing masks, hiding their inner truth, is the right thing to do just now. According to Huang, line 4 abandons the less trust worthy companions of line 1, ( by the way, line 1talks about not worryin too much about what others think of you, as long as you are truthfull, not wearing any conditioning from past relationships and being your true, no holes barred, grotty beautiful self, wihtout holding onto any of the negative companion bits to do with this line, all will be well) and is now following his dao, looking up to line 5, for a more truthfull and sincere connection between people. The oracle is emphasising that this period of isolation might be a necessary step in the path towards opening up more to people, line 5.

Another way to read this combination would be 'the inner truth of opposition'. Cleary writes of 38 "people should not fail to assimilate to others, yet should not be too much like others either. If they do not assimilate, they will startle and amaze the ignorant and ordinary people, and will be disliked and suspected by others; if they become too similar, however, they will be caught up in their influence and fall into mundane feelings, therefore they are different in the midst of sameness".

I hope some of this Makes some sense to you, ragini.

All the best,

Yx.

 

[bamboo]

resultant 38 seems to be the context of your question, feeling alienated.

I feel your reading is advising you that this is part of your process now - the breaking away from people and former associates is not a mistake. sometimes aloneness is a valuable time, if you can see it as not being lonely as much as finding a new a ground within yourself. as you cultivate your inner truth and learn more about who you are, your sincerity and authenticity will draw new companions, more resonant with who you are.
I recently read something somewhere about a certain astrological transit taking place, nearly ending now, where many are experiencing the falling away of former ways of relating, former relationships. but new ones will form. I wouldn't be too obsessed with the idea that you are in a rut; trust the process and allow time to bring you forward again. Don't be hard on yourself

 

[ragini]

Hello ragini,

I wonder if the oracle is asking you to delay judgement with people. Over time and after being wounded in social interactions, I think many people assume a lot about how others will interact with them. This can put up an invisible barrier between you and others, because along the way, you have been hurt and have developed a second skin that you try to protect yourself with. Often our own assumptions are to do with letting the past, and what's happened before between ourselves and others, effect how we look at the new people who enter our life in the present. I think with 61, the oracle is asking you to shed this protective skin and to empathise with others, not to assume or judge their dispositions too quickly. Allowing yourself to be vulnerable without preconceptions when interacting is a hard lesson to learn, especially if you have opened your heart to others before, and for whatever reason, friendships have disintegrated in the past. But the oracle has faith in your ability to reach out to people, (line 5), after you have gotten to grips with line 4.

Alfred Huang suggests that in line 4, you are turning away from a companion, or companions, that have not been truly honest and present with you. This might lead to a sense of isolation for a period of time, but distancing yourself from these people who are possibly wearing masks, hiding their inner truth, is the right thing to do just now. According to Huang, line 4 abandons the less trust worthy companions of line 1, ( by the way, line 1talks about not worryin too much about what others think of you, as long as you are truthfull, not wearing any conditioning from past relationships and being your true, no holes barred, grotty beautiful self, wihtout holding onto any of the negative companion bits to do with this line, all will be well) and is now following his dao, looking up to line 5, for a more truthfull and sincere connection between people. The oracle is emphasising that this period of isolation might be a necessary step in the path towards opening up more to people, line 5.

Another way to read this combination would be 'the inner truth of opposition'. Cleary writes of 38 "people should not fail to assimilate to others, yet should not be too much like others either. If they do not assimilate, they will startle and amaze the ignorant and ordinary people, and will be disliked and suspected by others; if they become too similar, however, they will be caught up in their influence and fall into mundane feelings, therefore they are different in the midst of sameness".

I hope some of this Makes some sense to you, ragini.

All the best,

Yx.

Hello yxeli,

Yes, I agree that there is an invisible barrier between people and me now. But this has been a very recent thing. For the greater part I have tried to approach people with a fresh mind. Even though I have been on the receiving end of pain in most relationships, I don't think it would be fair for me to blame others. I realize that especially more when I read what you mentioned about standing out and assimilating:

"people should not fail to assimilate to others, yet should not be too much like others either. If they do not assimilate, they will startle and amaze the ignorant and ordinary people, and will be disliked and suspected by others; if they become too similar, however, they will be caught up in their influence and fall into mundane feelings, therefore they are different in the midst of sameness"

Wow, how I wish I had read this earlier. I think there are times when I stand out like a nail, and get hammered, and when I am exhausted of being hammered, I assimilate, and lose myself in the process. I clearly see this as a fault in me, though in all honesty, I have no clue how I could achieve this balance.

I have been thinking about this for a while, and a, realizing that even though I approach people with honesty and good intentions, I have a difficult time connecting with others. I do remember of a time when I could connect with almost everyone, and then a plethora of negative experiences without any guidance have left me bewildered. Yes, I think that is the right word, I am totally bewildered

Thanks for reminding me that I should not worry too much about what others think. I have definitely come to a point where I am literally scared of what others think of me. Not sure if I can take much more rejection. Sorry for the rant

I am sure all this is creating good changes internally. I guess I need to figure out how to hold on to myself and keep myself together till then. I think I need a few positive experiences in life to get myself back on track. If the universe has given me all this pain, I am sure it will give me those positive experiences as well.

Thanks for offering your thoughts and suggestions.

 

[ragini]

resultant 38 seems to be the context of your question, feeling alienated.

I feel your reading is advising you that this is part of your process now - the breaking away from people and former associates is not a mistake. sometimes aloneness is a valuable time, if you can see it as not being lonely as much as finding a new a ground within yourself. as you cultivate your inner truth and learn more about who you are, your sincerity and authenticity will draw new companions, more resonant with who you are.
I recently read something somewhere about a certain astrological transit taking place, nearly ending now, where many are experiencing the falling away of former ways of relating, former relationships. but new ones will form. I wouldn't be too obsessed with the idea that you are in a rut; trust the process and allow time to bring you forward again. Don't be hard on yourself

Hi bamboo,

Yes, I do feel alienated terribly alienated. In fact I am almost feeling like an alien on this planet. I have been thinking to myself from some time, if I was actually born on the wrong planet. It's sad but it's just hilarious when I am able to see the lighter side

Aloneness is indeed very valuable. I have been through times when I was absolutely alone, even if in the midst of people, and such times have been in retrospect very good for spiritual progress. However, at the moment, it's just like I feel that the camel's back is finally broken. Too many straws piling up and unable to bear the weight of pain and isolation (or rather just the feeling of being disconnected).

Cultivating my inner truth and learning more about who I am certainly sounds like a great idea... and a few genuine connections would surely help... dear universe I hope you are listening :bows:

Thanks bamboo !

 

[yxeli]

Thanks for reminding me that I should not worry too much about what others think. I have definitely come to a point where I am literally scared of what others think of me. Not sure if I can take much more rejection.

This is the crux of it. Line 4 is telling you to distance yourself from line 1, in this case, they're not external companions, they're the mental companions we all carry around with us. In this period of isolation, your slowly forgetting this part of your personality. This is why you need to be alone now, to get back to yourself. The most important thing you can do for yourself is question this part of your personality during this downtime your now experiencing. Why do you care so much what others think? Why does their opinion matter more then your own innate sense of knowing who you are, without any external validation? No-one knows you like you know yourself. It seems you may have forgotten this along the way.

There's nothing like a bit of alone-time to allow your natural beautiful self to come forth. And the oracle has complete faith that you'll get there. Line 5 says all this isolation is gonna dissappear, so don't you get depressed or feel like theres something wrong with you, cos they're aint

Yes, I do feel alienated terribly alienated. In fact I am almost feeling like an alien on this planet. I have been thinking to myself from some time, if I was actually born on the wrong planet.

some of my best friends are aliens. Most of the best people are.

Keep the faith Ragini, like changes, this too shall pass


Yx

 

[ragini]

This is the crux of it. Line 4 is telling you to distance yourself from line 1, in this case, they're not external companions, they're the mental companions we all carry around with us. In this period of isolation, your slowly forgetting this part of your personality. This is why you need to be alone now, to get back to yourself. The most important thing you can do for yourself is question this part of your personality during this downtime your now experiencing. Why do you care so much what others think? Why does their opinion matter more then your own innate sense of knowing who you are, without any external validation? No-one knows you like you know yourself. It seems you may have forgotten this along the way.
Yx

Thanks yxeli,

I think you have nailed it. Even though I am brave in voicing my opinion when it is different from others (which is usually the case), I have a seriously deep longing for acceptance. Not acceptance for any great feat, just a human to human acceptance.

I agree I should not be caring so much about what others think. I guess it bothers me so much because I have been feeling extremely disconnected from the sea of humanity. So when one more person rejects me, it's like one more bond with a human is dissolved, which leaves me feeling even more alienated.

I guess I may also have become very sensitive off late. Something which I may have taken in my stride, suddenly seems like rejection, even though it may not be so.

Loving myself and accepting myself without any external validation is definitely something I have to do, and you are right, maybe that is the message for this alone time.

Thanks yxeli for taking the time to help me !

 

[precision grace]

hi ..I sympathise a lot with your situation and will now give you a tool that may (or may not help) when you are feeling most despondent.

Decide to spend a whole day walking around and viewing the whole world and every single person in it as part of a story that you, yourself are making in every moment. Don't analyse (why am I making this person be stand offish with me), rather, when you notice something you dislike, in your mind decide that you that person or situation will change into a positive one instead. Don't be too specific in what you want, just go around noticing what you are creating with your mind and when you come across something that really upsets you simply decide that you expect it to change for the better now.

I know it probably sounds really mental, but I've found this exercise to be very helpful, specially at those times when it feels like the whole world is against one.

Hugs.

 

[troubadour]

Ragini I have just had a reading in which MrYou1 has helped me to identify my own sense of lack of self-confidence which has been very debilitating so I would like to offer you some thoughts which may or may not be helpful. A friend of mine who is a sensitive and caring woman has also been through spells of introversion and seeking isolation. It can be a healthy thing to enjoy a fallow period of down time. I know though that sometimes this can coincide in her case with cycles of depression and she has also started to consider the possibility that some of her social discomfort could relate to a previously undiagnosed Aspergers condition. As you will know Aspergers Syndrome is asymptomatic and affects different people in different ways. She is highly intelligent, aware and articulate but has problems recognizing and responding to some social cues which can make interaction with other people unduly stressful and leads her to withdraw, which is really sad as she is a beautiful human being with so much to contribute. I put this out there not because I really think you may be depressed or have any Aspergers related behaviours - 61.5 says you can and do find real connection in life- but I feel your sadness and hope that if there are underlying reasons for your sense of social isolation or insecurity you will seek support. Hope to hear more from you. If there is nothing to what I have written please feel free to reject it. In that case I hope you will smile at the way that a well meaning stranger has weighed in with irrelevancies. That has happened to me here too!

 

[ragini]

In that case I hope you will smile at the way that a well meaning stranger has weighed in with irrelevancies. That has happened to me here too!

Hi troubadour,

Thanks for thinking about my problem, and offering your views.

I am actually smiling at how relevant your words may be. Aspergers has previously come to my radar once in the past, while I was reading and researching some unrelated things. Somehow it slipped through the cracks and I did not think about it again.

Your post really made me think about it once again. It is very possible that there could be an Aspergers connection. I do have an inability to understand social cues. I can intuitively perceive things that others cannot, but very often cannot understand simple social cues that others do. Feels like my brain was manufactured in a world that works kind of differently It's like in my world there is compassion, sincerity, and action, rather than expression of empathy (not that there is anything wrong in expressing empathy. Really did not mean to offend anyone) ... maybe that points to a connection.

I checked out the Wired magazine's Autism Spectrum test, and my score was pretty high I know it's unwise to diagnose anything based on an online test, but the score was interesting ...

Thanks for pointing me in that direction. I will certainly do some reading and try to figure out if there is a connection.

I am sorry you have also had to deal with issues related to self confidence. I realize how debilitating they can be, since I have dealt with them for a good deal of time. Actually self assertion would be closer in mu case. I totally fail to understand why people around me attempt to assert their ego in the way they do (not to say there is anything wrong with them. They are like most people I know of). I basically find it extremely difficult to find common ground in which I can express myself. It's like when I am in a social setting with a group of people, they are all on firm ground, and I am standing (or rather struggling) on quicksand, which never fails to get me off balance. I do better in one on one conversations, but not with everyone. I think I do best with people who have a bent of spirituality and the worst with those who are wordly wise

I wish you success and a gentle connection with the source, to help you with the difficulties you are going through.

 

[ragini]

hi ..I sympathise a lot with your situation and will now give you a tool that may (or may not help) when you are feeling most despondent.

Decide to spend a whole day walking around and viewing the whole world and every single person in it as part of a story that you, yourself are making in every moment. Don't analyse (why am I making this person be stand offish with me), rather, when you notice something you dislike, in your mind decide that you that person or situation will change into a positive one instead. Don't be too specific in what you want, just go around noticing what you are creating with your mind and when you come across something that really upsets you simply decide that you expect it to change for the better now.

I know it probably sounds really mental, but I've found this exercise to be very helpful, specially at those times when it feels like the whole world is against one.

Hugs.

Hi precision grace,

Thank you for suggesting this exercise. I really like the part about not analyzing. I think I analyze till it drives me nuts. It's like chasing my own tail, and never really getting it (see I am doing it again ).

I tried your exercise for a while today, but then forgot about it. Will try and be more aware tomorrow. It sounds like a nice exercise, and I am sure it will help.

 

[troubadour]

All I can say after reading your thoughtful & kindly reply is, if you are on the Asperger's Spectrum I'd like a place there right next to you Ragini. Some of the best people I know would feel the same, I am certain. The rat race can be a hard hard place for anyone who doesn't have whiskers or like sewers. It sounds like you are also someone with a mystical and spiritual inclination. I hope your inner light always shines bright. Thank you for your good words to me, may blessings rain down!

 

[precision grace]

Hi precision grace,

Thank you for suggesting this exercise. I really like the part about not analyzing. I think I analyze till it drives me nuts. It's like chasing my own tail, and never really getting it (see I am doing it again ).

I tried your exercise for a while today, but then forgot about it. Will try and be more aware tomorrow. It sounds like a nice exercise, and I am sure it will help.

one of the hardest things for a human being to accept is that some things cannot be understood, just accepted. And, you know, some things can be understood, but after more effort, energy and drama is spent than the understanding is worth. Wisdom is knowing when to leave well alone.

Was talking to someone at work recently about the fact I hate maths - there are always too many unknown variables for my personal peace of mind. My colleague said - but you can discard the majority of those because they are simply not relevant to the question at hand. And he is right. Of course, some of us dislike doing that even if it would make our lives easier, right

 

[ragini]

A big thank you, to all of you who have shared your thoughts to help me. I really feel like the Yi is blessing me in this thread.

I do feel calmer, and things are getting clearer in my mind. If there is an aspergers connection - awesome ! I welcome any type of understanding. Being bewildered is really crazy, but understanding will create some pathway for a solution.

Recently I have also been reading and listening to talks on the Internet about meditation, Vippassana, and Buddhism. I realize the ultimately any solution lies in dropping this pulling and pushing, this stress, and feel love and joy of the universe. But perhaps the pulling and pushing has a role to play. If we don't feel disconcerted and alienated, then how will be even realize that there is an alternate path, which is far healthier

I still carry most of the pain that I felt when I started this thread, so cannot really claim to have become wise, but I can feel that the pain is a process ... stressful but necessary.

Very interestingly, and almost a synchronicity, I came across a very interesting book, which addresses similar things, but from the perspective of psychology. I am hoping that spiritual practice and help from a psychological perspective will together help me get my life back in order.

Just a day back, I was thinking "god there is no way I can put my life back in order, all by myself." I am still not sure if I can, but I see a glimmer of hope. I am not sure how many of my problems will end, and when they will end, but if I can gain equanimity, and move about my life with peace and love in my heart, then the problems will not have much power over me.

I am going to pray for help and guidance, so I can go about my life joyfully, regardless of problems, and continue to keep love in my heart despite of how people behave. I hope I get it, and I also hope, everyone who is in need of such guidance gets it.

:bows:

 

[yxeli]

If we don't feel disconcerted and alienated, then how will be even realize that there is an alternate path, which is far healthier

This is very true, ragini, and it goes to the main idea of 38. we have to maintain our individuality but also assimilate to a certain degree.

Very interestingly, and almost a synchronicity, I came across a very interesting book, which addresses similar things, but from the perspective of psychology. I am hoping that spiritual practice and help from a psychological perspective will together help me get my life back in order.

I think this is a very healthy idea, its important to gather lots of different perspectives of what your now feeling. And as a lot of psychology is just the yijing translated into modern english, i think its all connected! Can you talk to someone who might be able to shed light on Aspergers for you? Or talk to a psychologist? It can be very expensive, but worth every penny from my experience.

I wish you the very best ragini. It will get better.

Yx

 

[troubadour]

Carl Jung said two things which spring to mind here Ragini:

“There is no coming to consciousness without pain.”

“Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.”

Thanks again for giving so much of yourself. You've made me aware that I am also engaged in a process of painful growth and healing and that I am not alone, even though I often feel lonely. None of us are alone. Or if we are, we are alone together.

 

[ragini]

Can you talk to someone who might be able to shed light on Aspergers for you? Or talk to a psychologist? It can be very expensive, but worth every penny from my experience.

I wish you the very best ragini. It will get better.

Yx

Thanks yxeli,

I have thought of meeting a psychologist, but I am also very apprehensive. The wrong person/medication could create more havoc than good. My situation is far too fragile right now, so the thought of the wrong person scares me even more.

To start with I am trying to research and read more about Aspergers, and psychology in general. Alongside, I will try and find out if I can get references to good psychologists. I am hoping that books and self therapy will help, but if they don't, I will not hesitate to meet a psychologist.

 

[ragini]

I am also engaged in a process of painful growth and healing and that I am not alone, even though I often feel lonely. None of us are alone. Or if we are, we are alone together.

Hi troubadour,

You are definitely not alone. I think each person who is struggling in life, is doing so because they want to get to a higher plane, above the mundane silliness of this world. But it's not an easy jump, and I am sure all the pain will be worth it

I think the Internet is a real boon to seekers. Even if we do not find people close to where we are, the Internet eliminates all distances and connects like minded souls from around the world.