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yellowblue

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Hi-

Found this quote to be very interesting and thought I'd share it.

"Common experience is the gold reserve which confers an exchange value on the currency which words are."
René Daumal (1908-44); French poet, critic.

I've been working with numerous translations of the Yi and have found that for me personally the words that describe the hexagram provide a fundamental understanding of the hexagram.

LiSe offers many words that relate to the hexagram which I find extremely helpful. Also, I have been using more obscure translations that I have found through links.

Has anyone come upon any translations that list definitive words with the hexagrams? I would love to know about them.

Thanks,
Deb
 

frandoch

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Hi Deb,

I don't know if you have this translation, but it lists all the definitive words associated with the translation, and for each word it gives a list of possible meanings, much like a Thesaurus.

Title: I Ching (Fully Revised Edition)
Author: Stephen Karcher
Publ: Vega
ISBN: 1-84333-003-2
US $19.95 UK £16.99 Can. $29.95

Hope this helps.

Michael (Frandoch)
 

frandoch

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Hi Deb,

Slight correction: It lists all the definitive words associated with each hexagram in the translation.

It also has a very thorough Concordance. For those who may not have come across this word before it's a list of all the definitive words, and for each word it gives a list of all the hexagrams where that word occurs.
 
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yellowblue

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Michael F-

I have seen the name Stephen Karcher in many threads, but do not have his translation. It's difficult to know what translation is reliable and the obscure translations I refered to in my earlier post I use sparingly for specific matter. So your response was very helpful.

Thank you!
Deb
 
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yellowblue

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Michael F-

Hey, that's even better...I have a thesaurus, a cross reference is terrific!

Deb
 

frandoch

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Hi Deb,

Karcher's translation was made from the original Chinese characters. It is the result of 40 years research, including several years of seminars, conferences, individual and group consultations that included artists, thinkers and scholars from all parts of the world.

It ties together the concepts of the gods of the ancient Chinese with the archetypes of C G Jung, and as such is capable of using its divinatory powers as a modern psychological tool.

Because of the way this project was approached, it was able to form the basis of the first Concordance in a western language.

If you want any more info about how Karcher approached this task - just ask.

Michael F.
 
Y

yellowblue

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Hi there Michael F-

I'm in awe, really. This sounds fascinating, especially with the inclusion of Jung.

Of course I will purchase the book after reading your post. I am anxious to read it.

Thanks again Michael

Deb
 

frandoch

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Hi Deb,

Let me know how you get on with it. It's not one of those where you can ask the question and read the answer off the page. You've got to do some work.

It's a very good tool to use to start the intuitive process. I find it very helpful to use it in conjunction with other translations. Be sure to read all the introductory chapters so that you gain an understanding of how the book is structured. It's about 800 pages of pure information.

Good luck - enjoy.
 

malka

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Michael, tell us more about Karcher if you can. Sound facsinating!
 

frandoch

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Hi Malka

The ?Yi? is a diviner?s manual - which equates in modern terms to a way of accessing the archetypes of the unconscious mind as propounded by C G Jung. The Karcher translation is the result of about 40 to 50 years research sponsored by the Eranos Foundation of Switzerland.

The most important part of the consultation is the question, which in whatever form, should ask: ?How can I act in creative relationship with the spirits or forces shaping this moment of time.? This is the same as: ?How can I act in accordance with the tao? or ?What should I do to go with the flow ?? or ?How should I act, so that I am in tune with the cycles of the universe and of my life ??

The response of the ?Yi? to the question is the texts of the hexagrams, which present groups of symbolic images, which reflect the psyche, as do dreams and fantasies. As I said before, it connects the gods of ancient China with the archetypes of Jung.

The original symbols of the ancient Chinese language had none of the grammatical rules or controls that we have in modern languages. They are symbolic and intuitive rather than logical and sequential, much like the symbolism of dreams.

The Karcher translation is of the Palace Edition of 1715, which is the last of the classic versions of the text, and the one used by Wilhelm. Karcher, however, has not relied on the Commentaries. He has concentrated on those parts of the text which can be used for divination - the oracular texts, and he has attempted to allow the modern reader to gain access to the power of the imagination.

When a particular section had been translated, all the definitive words were given a ?thesaurus? covering all the meanings that could be applied to a possible interpretation. But this interpretation is not a logical one - it?s intuitive. It gives a ?field? of possibilities from which the individual may make an interpretation of the text as it applies in response to the question and the person asking it.

For me, and this is no criticism of others who use different methods, I find the analytical approach where we compare correspondences of lines etc, unsatisfactory. This is surprising, considering my background in mathematics and physics, but I am learning from other contributors to this site, and hopefully I can find a middle way, which encompasses both methods.

Karcher established four principles for this translation.

1. Each Chinese character is translated throughout the work by the same English word or phrase - thus the Concordance became possible.
2. Each term is provided with a group of possible meanings, and they include traditional ideas and more modern ones, for example, from recent archaeological discoveries.
3. He has preserved, as far as possible, the word order of the original. Each word he uses represents one, and only one, Chinese character in the same order as in the original text.
4. The Eastern tradition was based on magical images, and Karcher has connected the structure of the hexagrams to these images.

Thus he has combined the very old with the new. His interpretation is not aimed at the usual analytical approach of some scholars, but at allowing the questioner to connect with the spirit - the archetypes - the gods - through absorbing the words and letting them gel intuitively. It can be compared to the sudden awareness of the meaning of a dream. It?s an ?Aha? moment.

But it?s not easy. As I said before it requires some work. It?s not a case of asking a question, and looking up the answer on a certain page - but it?s worth the effort.

Be gentle, gentle is true strength,

Michael (Frandoch)
 
Y

yellowblue

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Michael F-

Thanks for the additional information. My personal opinion is that you can't just ask a question and expect an accurate answer without digging and thought anyway. This seems to be another wonderful resource to use in comparison with the other translations!

Thanks again for sharing.

Deb
 

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