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Is god or the soul basically benevolent? 22.4 to 30

Pearlescent

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I was reading about my favorite line, (23.6, as some of you may know) and I saw on a website that evil can never prevail over good, as a description of the dichotomy between the inferior man's house falling apart and the superior man receiving a carriage at the end of the stripping away process. It prompted me to ask this question:

Is 'god' or the soul basically benevolent?

to which the Yi responded with 22.4 changing to 30

'Beautiful and silvery,
A soaring white horse.
Not outlaws, marital suitors.’


I'd like to clarify that when I say 'god' or the soul, I was specifically being ambiguous and thinking of whatever energy is directly behind the manifestation of the universe, not at all specific of an actual religious god or even of a human soul, but just being as open as possible to allow for whatever it is that is behind everything to be brought into the question, which is obviously beyond my comprehension as a human being. So I used the words 'god' or 'soul' just to be able to write the question down in my notebook.

And by basically benevolent, I understand the necessity for negative energy in order to make the universe whole and to provide a myriad of situations and experiences which would otherwise be impossible, as we all know you couldn't possibly achieve the I Ching if there were only yang lines, and it is the relationship between the two (masculine and feminine, dark and light, good and evil) that provides all 64 hexagrams. The tao indicates that opposites are really the same thing, just alternating extremes of one another. I kept that in mind as best as I could while asking this question, and so by benevolent I mean that good builds upon itself in the name of growth, and in contrast evil destroys, and even destroys itself when it no longer has anything good to prey upon. In fact that's another example used to describe 23.6 (the line which I was researching that inspired this question):

Inferior persons are destroyed by their own evil, for without power, negativity is self-consuming.

So I wanted to share this because I wonder what if anything anyone might be able to make of such an answer. Searching in the archives I found a fantastic interpretation of this line that I like although I don't claim it to be the answer, as if we might ever come upon the luxury of being able to say that anything was THE answer, but I found it very interesting:

22.4 often shows that that which one thinks is kind of unbelievable or not worth what it promises actually is worth what it promises.

For me it's the kind of scenario where someone tells you they can do something for you and you're thinking 'oh yeah', 'really ?' and you might think they are flashy...like robbers or crooks making out they can do this or that...but actually they can.

translating this to your question I think it may be hard for you to believe that this situation is what it says it is somehow.....but it is. You may have doubts that it was somehow 'too good to be true' or made false promises about how it may change your life.....but it isn't/hasn't. So I think the answer is allaying your doubts about this.

I think your course will be a transforming influence in your life. It isn't a 'robber' as the line says even if it looks like it stole your social life. It actually comes to transform.
 
S

sooo

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Imo, you do as good a job of answering your question as anyone could, though we may use different references, words, analogies and such. 22 can be fire beside a mountain or fire within a mountain. I like fire within a mountain for this question and image: light surrounded and protected by a mass of matter or material energy suggest an individual, unlike light within earth (36). In this sense it could be saying that we are light at our core: beautiful and shining, as a soaring white horse - "Pegasus is one of the best known creatures in Greek mythology. He is a winged divine stallion usually depicted as pure white in color."

In Jungian thought, when the outer is the mountain or dense matter, the inner (or unconscious self - not to be confused with Freud's self or the Hindu Atman) is pure, symbolized by white light, or as Tibetan Buddhists call it, clear light. However, the unconscious manifests images, brought in from the conscious experience, to lend form in the unconscious, to convey back to our conscious parts of our self that are dark and in various forms, which are not our pure light but shadows of the mountain which have not yet been refined. This is a creative act as it moves us to work on our mountain-self, our conscious experience and persona, that it may become equal to our inner light, symbolized by the 22, actually 22.6, heavenly light or clear light. I think it is not like a constant flow of light energy like a light bulb but like fire, it flames upward, and natural/conscious fires have shades of red, blue, green - reflecting the fuel it feeds on. This makes for a mission or personal objective to purify our light. But this does not happen without purification of the heavier or grosser material that comes from first our conscious, but makes its way into our roots, or our unconscious, where everything exists as potential, as the principle within. The worst that can happen is letting our outer experiences saturate our inner world, so that we lose our souls to the dense material of the outer life. When that happens, the inner light flickers, and denied of "soul food", the light goes out, and one loses their soul.

This may be why the gods were believed to inhabit mountains, to purify through our sacrifices, so that our sheng or soul may be constantly purified. Perhaps as much or more that any other culture, Chinese mythology seems to have an endless stream of stories, and rather than copy them here, which looks impressive, expresses the same archetypal stories as other cultures, just with different names and outward forms and names. As Campbell says, in the end there is only one story of man, which I believe is to redeem his outer world deeds and purify his inner world soul. In the end, there is no separation between them, but the duality serves to form a relationship by which we may be made pure and worthy of the gods.

"The Ancient Egyptians believed that when you died, you traveled to the Hall of the Dead. There Anubis (the Egyptian version of Pluto) weighed your heart against the feather of Ma'at. Ma'at, the goddess of justice sits on top of the scales to make sure that the weighing is carried out properly. Anubis steadies the scales to make the weighing fair. If your heart was lighter than the feather, you lived forever. We still talk of "a heart as light as a feather" to mean care-free, and "heavy-hearted" to mean sad. Thoth, god of wisom and writing, stands by to record what happens."

1137.gif


One can see the similarity to the light soul being weighed against the heavy mountain. But a mountain of gods floats between heaven and earth. Therefore we must become gods, whether Christ, Buddha, Avolokiteshvera, Pearlescent, sooo, or whoever we are inside. The light shines against and within the mountain.
 

Tim K

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Richmond:White light is the mix of all coloured light and wings are used together; being carried (the horse) by taking both. Only when our identifications are in abeyance can we notice this.

Both good and evil are only our perceptions, a mask, illusion, costume (22).
Both are just a form of light (30), of energy coming from the Source of All (God, Universe etc.).


This question was answered in D.Cannon books, that to the source it doesn't matter what form will the energy take. It just radiates energy and gives and gives with an unconditional love.
The only difference there is, is the frequency of vibration.
Negative thoughts and emotions are at the low end of the spectrum, they weigh the soul and body down.
For the souls it's best to strive towards love.
But from the God's point of view its all just a game/dream.
 
D

diamanda

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I more or less agree with ashteroid's view here.

The brightly beautiful exterior/costume (22.4) of survival instinct (30).
 
T

taoscopy

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Is god or the soul basically benevolent? 22.4 to 30

The Yi says that the definition of good is when you act fast when others are waiting for help. (That's from me, the following text is from the Yi)

(5.1) When you cannot help immediately, there is a problem (36.3), you don't want to let go the classical comments, but you should let these new comments handle the matter (31.2.3.5.6). You want to see the proofs that they are helpful (25.1, then 56.2.6), yet you don't want to examine these comments (33.5, 9.1).

(5.1.2.5) Those new comments don't help you yet because you haven't examined them carefully. But you should be confident and look at them.

End of transcription (10.2)

22 - To reserve

One shall not move too hastily.

4 - One has to be fast when others are waiting for help.
In the making
30 - Lucidity

Patience will bring success.
 

bradford

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According to the Buddha, God and the soul are basically non-existent.
That would be in line with Gua 30 as dependent or conditioned arising.
The fire has to be cared for or tended in order to give light.
 
S

sooo

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According to the Buddha, God and the soul are basically non-existent.
That would be in line with Gua 30 as dependent or conditioned arising.
The fire has to be cared for or tended in order to give light.
I think this is what I was trying to say, with too many words.
 

Pearlescent

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Thank you all for your well considered replies. I feel that I’ve asked this question and gotten in a little over my head actually, lol. I would have replied sooner but I wanted to do my best when I responded because I do, very much, appreciate the time you’ve all taken to consider my reading. I feel a bit like I’ve confused myself thinking into this, and I want to do justice in reciprocating with a intellectual and life enriching response, but I just feel like it’s not forthcoming. BUT I want to say that I am grateful that each of you took the time to talk to me about this reading, even if my response isn’t that great! lol

Sooo, thanks for your explanation of the fire in the mountain; I felt the line itself was appropriate I couldn’t quite pin 22 in reference to the question. I actually understand hexagram 22 much better now, I’ll have to agree that the mountain probably represents physical matter and the fire also represents the ‘light’ within. I don’t like saying soul because I simply don’t know, although that would be my next best word.


“As Campbell says, in the end there is only one story of man, which I believe is to redeem his outer world deeds and purify his inner world soul. In the end, there is no separation between them, but the duality serves to form a relationship by which we may be made pure and worthy of the gods.”

The parallels between cultures and their myths are important and I think represents our common roots as human beings. Myths do seem use the same language as subconscious, which speaks through symbols as you’ve mentioned.

Which makes me think of this description of the image of 22:

“Firelight flickering over the mountain, creating shifting patterns of light and dark. Or the volcanic fire within a mountain, which shows you that what appears so very solid and established is still taking shape dynamically. Fire below the mountain, inner awareness illuminating what is established, the ‘many standards’. Bright presence illumines form. Casting light on why things are defined the way they are.”

Also when I saw you added the weighing of the heart, I’ve always been fond of that image, because the egyptians understood so much that we are just rediscovering now... I have had to really consider that they may have a grasp on something about the afterlife that we would greatly benefit from examining.

Ashteroid, fascinating point of 22 being a facade or persona. I hadn’t even considered that perspective on the reading. Your take on hex 30 as the relating hexagram, as 22 being various forms light (30) makes a lot of sense and interestingly goes back to what some were commenting on your prana thread about how everything we eat is really just different forms of light, anyway... I find this especially interesting as one time, I asked the Yi ‘what are you’? And received hexagram 30 unchanging. It made me very much appreciate the name of this forum as well as wonder on ocassion how hilary came up with it.

Bradford, at first I didn’t understand your response, but I think I maybe do now... I’ve read that 30 is ‘the clinging’ and I had a really hard time grasping that. I still do, but I think what you’re saying is that the fire is conditional... on our awareness? Would that refer to the text in line 4 “a martial suitor” which wikiwing describes as something coming to increase you through partnership... fire needs something ‘to cling to’ as in, like, we are this divine something, or becoming it through tending our fire and ‘taking care of the cow’ in hex 30. As per what sooo was referencing by purifying our light? I had a feeling you might comment on this thread, so I wanted to understand your answer, but I admit I feel a lot more lost than I did when I first posted.

Thank you all for responding to my reading. It’s given me a lot to think about. For anyone who keeps an eye on the transits, you’ll probably know that the sun is opposed neptune now, and it was just my birthday the other day... So as much as I felt I understood I’m really feeling that slip through my fingers.

I’m also curious, Is there an aspect of transformation hinted at in line 4? That can also be taken as a rhetorical question. lol
 
S

sooo

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Hi, Pearl.. if I may call you that for short?

Funny but I have no problem with the word soul because I see our soul as who we are. I do sometimes have a problem with the word spirit because it's so often flippantly used to infer something we don't really know what, yet it's spiritual this and spiritual that. Soul is something we can see, hear, and feel while in the flesh. What happens to a soul after the body dies, I have no idea. I've held many beliefs over this lifetime, but as I grow toward old age, it's a mystery, and somehow I think that's quite alright and as it should be.

Also, I don't feel my comments were an explanation of 22 but an interpretation. There are a number of interpretations, some which different translators feel quite strongly about or certain of. I'm not certain, but it's how I saw it, and still see it. When Li is below Kun, most are fine with it being light or fire within the earth (36), implying hiding our light, or sometimes wounding our light. I've seen it applied both ways. But Li below Ken is rarely seen as light within the mountain, and I think that's a legitimate consideration, sometimes. I've also learned to greatly like LiSe's idea of what life shows of its chi, which I think often refers to health. Bradford's idea of it, I can see how it too can sometimes apply as nearsighted, which also has to do with the appearance rather than the substance. So, being your reading, it's for you to choose the best fit for your question. Grace is a rather unpopular meaning in these parts, but I think it too can sometimes apply, and line 4 is such an example. As though to say, what IS beauty but simplicity. Line 6 carries a similar message: clear white light, which is also a Tibetan Buddhist motif, that which is experienced upon the moment of death; and just as chakra or tantric meditation strives to climb to that place, Tibetan Buddhism believes upon death that is where the traveler begins their Bardo experience, and failing to hold onto it, the traveler drops to the next lower chakra, until it continues its descent finally into hell realms and/or rebirth. It seems most all religions share the same story though with different costumes and local folk deities and daemons, which are also deities.

I don't know what to expect, so I'll be surprised and excited to experience it when it comes, that is if there really is a conscious experience after our bodies go back to dust or ashes. I hope to jam with Jimi, Janis and Jesus. :)
 

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