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Is The Sage ALWAYS There Dialoging ?

bodhidogma

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I have read a few times that the I Ching ALWAYS gives the perfect answer, whether you are aware of its wisdom or not.

Well, I take exception to this premise. Very often I feel like my answers are random and there is no Intelligence behind them.

It can be very disheartening, especially when you start to think you are reading something into nothing.

(Conversely, other times of course it feels EXTREMELY responsive and each answer speaks directly to the query.)

I know this is an old conundrum, but I would like to hear what you think...
 

Trojina

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Occasionally i do get the sense that there is nothing in an answer..so I agree with you I think. I don't think there is always a response...just occasionally theres random 'white noise' or whatever you want to call it. I reckon i feel it when that happens...like no connection. Noone can prove it one way or the other of course
 

chacha1

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I totally agree. However,( because I do not study the Yi as intensely as others do- I use my intuition) when I get an answer that doesn't apply or make sense, I attribute it to my lack of understanding or my misinterpretation. I know it takes a possibly a lifetime or more to understand, and I've only been doing this for a decade. I'm so curious to know how long have you been consulting the Yi and how many times have you had "wrong?" answers as compared to right answers? P.S. The wrong answers ( or interpretations) really throw me off, but the "right " answers make me feel like it's all worthwhile!
 

Trojina

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I didn't think Bodhi was talking about 'right' or 'wrong ' answers but times when one doesn't connect with Yi, like one is on a different wave length. This isn't the same thing as misunderstanding IMO..it feels quite different. Generally i think this happens when i kind of know it isn't the right time to consult and do it anyway..so could be I'm not really engaging and so get a 'white noise' answer. Happens rarely though..
 

neegula

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Generally i think this happens when i kind of know it isn't the right time to consult and do it anyway..
this happened to me too.
i add as a suggestion to get a deeper connexion before starting divination, even before clearing up which words one will put in the question.

there are many different way one can "use"for "connecting" before the "practice", don't know if you have yours already...

(sorry, tonight it is so difficult writing and choosing words; don't know if it is the new moon or mi tiredness. hope my post is clear:))
 

edge

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I definitely find that when I get what seem like 'wrong' or meaningless answers its down to my lack of focus and concentration, not being in the right meditative state. I really believe consulting the Yi is part of my spiritual practice, and the clear responses I get happen when I have taken the time to raise my awareness and really centre myself to be able to hear and receive wisdom. I don't claim to have any real knowledge of the source of that wisdom (although I have my beliefs) but it makes no sense to me that it would be there one minute and not the next or that I would be given a 'wrong answer'. If we don't take time to actively listen sometimes we just don't connect!
 

edge

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I also sometimes wonder if I get an answer which seems meaningless because its a time when I'm supposed to be working things out for myself!! :)
 

Trojina

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this happened to me too.
i add as a suggestion to get a deeper connexion before starting divination, even before clearing up which words one will put in the question.

there are many different way one can "use"for "connecting" before the "practice", don't know if you have yours already...

(sorry, tonight it is so difficult writing and choosing words; don't know if it is the new moon or mi tiredness. hope my post is clear:))
no i don't use any particular practises before consulting in order to connect..either its the right time or it isn't. All i was saying is very occasionally it isn't the right time and i realise I'm going against the grain to continue and consult hence I get a kind of 'non answer' but i don't find this in any way a problem, just one of those things that happens sometimes...bit like calling a friend when you feel they aren't there..no problem you just call later.

However I'm not saying the Yi is 'out' as in 'not there' only not there to me, or rather I to it. sometimes my energy obviously does not wish to go to Yi and i don't recognise that and consult. But it really doesn't matter to me there feels like white noise sometimes, i find that quite natural. No point in forcing it or worrying about it. I think there is a natural ebb and flow in all kinds of 'psychic' (for want of better word) work , sometimes connection/reception is strong other times not so. I think thats fine.

I never have found the need to be in any particular 'meditative state' to consult as Edge described
 
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Trojina

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I also sometimes wonder if I get an answer which seems meaningless because its a time when I'm supposed to be working things out for myself!! :)
I think in that instance the Yi just reflects your question back at you.
 
M

meng

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how long have you been consulting the Yi and how many times have you had "wrong?" answers as compared to right answers?
I've received answers I flat out disagreed with, but I can't recall a single time that I would say (later), Yi's answer was wrong.

Thing is, it's not always about what's right or wrong, it's about what we truly want most, and how to clear a better path toward that. And so many times it appears folks don't know what they want, but they're asking the Yi to tell them what's right and/or wrong for them. It's backwards, so it's no wonder there's confusion sometimes. Sooner or later people have to break away from the childishness of needing to be told what to do.

I get what seems to be a rare blackout period with Yi's connection, which I lightly refer to as sun spots. A Ti Ming matter. During such an occasion I'm often calm and well focused, so it's not like I was trippin'. There just seemed to be no one home there, for whatever reason. No answer is an answer.
 
M

meng

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what I want most type questions

a) What can I contribute to this relationship to help it blossom? (I want a successful relationship)

b) How can I best prepare myself for the interview? (I want to be offered the job)

c) (prediction) What can I expect when I go to the interview? (same as above)

d) What is the state of such and such? (I want knowledge)

etc
 
M

meng

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Hope you don't mind if I ramble a bit more on it.. it's not a simple black or white issue for me, and I don't want to leave that impression.

I have no problem with aimless, mindless inquiries of the Yi, just for the contemplative exercise (like walking the dog) or just mind candy. But knowing that is what I'm wanting from the inquiry, I'm prepared to receive answers that I don't necessarily ask for. :)
 

elvis

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From a non-traditionalist perspective - the I Ching is a set of classes of meanings covering all possible classes given the use of assessing reality through a filtering system of yin/yang.

The set is applicable to ANY moment and ALL hexagram apply in that they cover ASPECTS of the whole, I Ching harmonics. Change the scale of analysis and each hexagram is interpretable as a whole and all hexagrams can be used to describe details of that whole.

From the non-traditionalist perspective asking questions about "how can I do this?" or "does X love me?" etc are not valid questions in that all they do, when using magical/random methods, is elicit a class of meaning from the set of meanings with no one being any different from any other since all apply to the moment. IOW all 64 hexagrams apply to each question and traditional methods in deriving one hexagram allow for any hexagram to be considered 'meaningful' - even at a stretch where it may not seem to initially fit but upon reflection can be made to fit!

From a non-traditionalist perspective we can ask general questions that allow us to elicit a 'better fit' hexagram in a more consistent manner and get results that serve better an analysis of some situation/person (more so being consistent and testable).
 

russell

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The Receptive

Have you ever been annoyed at someone who asks a question, then argues with the answer? I always want to say, “If you didn’t want the answer, why did you ask the question?” I try not to be like that with the Yi. I generally don’t ask anything when my mind is fully made up about something, but rather when I am conflicted or clueless. (You wouldn’t ask your professor, “what should I choose as the subject of my paper,” when you already know what you want to write about.) I sometimes ask myself, “am I willing to change what I am doing depending on the answer?” as part of getting into a meditative, receptive state of mind. I think that under these conditions, one is more likely to resonate with any answer.
 
M

meng

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Have you ever been annoyed at someone who asks a question, then argues with the answer? I always want to say, “If you didn’t want the answer, why did you ask the question?”
Because I wanted different answer! :bag:

Howdy, Russell.
 
M

meng

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I think we can take Yi's answers more personally than they are meant to be taken. Sometimes it's the energy of the day, or relation to that day, or it could be our environment that day. It isn't always something personal. It complicates things when we take those answers personally, because we can unknowingly build a complex with conditions around that weren't intended to be there. A lot of self incrimination, with little return on investment. I think we all do it to some extent.

How does "The Sage" dialogue that? Which of 64+ answers would be the truth of the matter? Would someone who is feeling incriminated interpret the answer as "The Sage" intended? I think probably not. So, what does he then do with that answer? Incriminates himself further. And the complex grows. Now there is need for someone to come and pull him out from under that complex pile of nonsense. But which of The Sages answers would be heard as intended?
 

bodhidogma

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I apologize if I wasn't clear, but it's not a question of Right or Wrong answers. (When I get a discouraging reading I try to accept it with as much gratitude as a a"favorable" one).

Its more like getting a NON-answer. Like thinking you are having a conversation on the phone only to realize it was a recorded voice menu. Or, more accurately, the phone on the other end is off the hook and you have been talking to yourself.

I agree with edge: I take this as a sign that I am supposed to answer the question myself.

The only problem is, this is how a majority of my readings have been going for the last few months!
 
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bodhidogma

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How does "The Sage" dialogue that? Which of 64+ answers would be the truth of the matter? Would someone who is feeling incriminated interpret the answer as "The Sage" intended? I think probably not. So, what does he then do with that answer? Incriminates himself further. And the complex grows. Now there is need for someone to come and pull him out from under that complex pile of nonsense. But which of The Sages answers would be heard as intended?
This is the flip-side of The Non-Answer Dilemma; The Contradictory Answers Dilemma
(it feels right, the only problem is it contradicts yesterdays reading which also felt right.) :duh:

For this topic, a whole other thread is needed!
 

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