Is the Yi repeating my question back to me?

[maiajay]

Hi everyone,
I know it is not unheard of for the Yi to reply by repeating your question back to you.... Under what circumstances do you think the oracle does this? When you have asked the same question too many times? When it cannot easily answer your question?
...For example--I asked what can I do to improve my situation? And received 57.5 to 18
I started reading some of the archives and saw several interpretations of this combination as being "on the right track, in the midst of a process, needing to sort things out, pay attention but leading to a positive outcome..."
Then I started thinking about what I had asked...I asked what can I do to improve my situation? And wonder--the Yi could very well be telling me how to improve my situation (work on what has been spoiled), or it could also just be painting me general a picture of an improving situation...
This curiosity does come up for me now and again--
How do others make this discernment?
Peace,
maiajay

 

[willowfox]

Hex 57.5 > 18 first, decide on a plan of action but in the knowledge that you are due for a fortunate change in your situation, what you have to do is to keep persevering as it will take time for success to reach you, so you should continually keep a watch on your progress and correct anything that is not right straightaway.

Hex 18 means to correct your previous mistakes, see what they were and learn how to avoid them, then you will be successful.

 

[jimnammack]

Maiajay:

It is my experience that when you ask a question and receive a hexagram that seems to repeat the question, there is actually some information imbedded in the text that will be useful to you. I do not know what the situation is that you asked about, so I will not be able to do any sleuthing for you. Hexagram 57 basically speaks of effectively influencing your environment by taking small steps for now. It indicates also that these small steps will have a bigger impact than you might think.

Moving line 5 says that if you adopt this strategy, all things will work in your favor.

Hexagram 18 pretty much means what it says. Part of your strategy should include fixing or mending what needs fixing or mending.

Jim

 

[maiajay]

Thanks for the replies.
Jim, I appreciate that perspective--and can feel the wisdom in it.
I did not go in to detail about "my situation," as part of the issue is that I don't really feel clear. I know what I have been through recently (last night I had a dream that I was listing off for a practioner the many challenges and traumas of the past two years...one after another--and I knew that even though I was listing things off linearly in hopes of helping her to put a picture and treatment plan together, I simulaneously had a knowing that relating to my situation linearly--in terms of cause and effect--was an over simplification.) And that is sort of how things feel to me. I know that the Yi is encouraging me to sort things out, bite through, deal with obstructions, work on what has been spoiled, release what is old and unusable...these themes recur...But I also really feel that the Yi is trying to tell me something that I cannot quite grasp.

This mysterious physical condition is what is showing up at the forefront but I really feel that it is related to the events of the past...like compounded interest. I have a diganosis that seems accurate but then I have drawn at least three times the changing line in 25 that Karcher translates as "you are experiencing sickness, disorder or violent emotion. This is not your fault. Do not treat it medically or literally. Then you will see the reason for it and have cause to rejoice."

I am dealing with general confusion and loss of clarity around how to proceed you know? So the other day I asked, "what question should I be asking about all of this," and drew 60.3.6 to 9. I've never done that before--asked for guidance about my question--and I didn't know how to interpret it. What I feel like I need help with from the Yi is in unraveling the knotted and overlapping elements of my situation into manageable pieces...Any suggestions around question formatting?
Thanks and Peace,
maiajay

 

[jimnammack]

All I can say here is for you to trust the information you have been given so far. Your physical problem may be psychosomatic, meaning that it is induced by your worries or subconscious insecurities. Psychosomatic does not mean that you are imagining the illness. From what you have said here about your recent divinations, it would seem that you are being told that these problems will subside and dissipate in time.

My experience with the I Ching and other oracles is that when you use one to do a divination, you will do best by sticking to the meanings and definitions given in that particular text, and do not pull in material from other books. Some authors define some of the moving lines in almost opposite ways. So, if you are going to use one of Karcher's books to tell you what a particular set of coin tosses means, I would encourage you to use the information in that text alone to interpret your answer. And the same for Wilhelm and the others.

Since your situation seems to be so confusing and upsetting for you, I will see if I can help out with a divination of my own with my own I Ching. I developed this over the course of fifteen years, and while it uses the same hexagram and moving line setup as the traditional I Ching, the meanings of the hexagrams and moving lines are quite different.

Question: What does Maiajay need to understand about the physical situation that concerns her?

In essence, my divination says that concerning the matter you asked about, you should follow your heart, follow what feels to be the best for you. In this situation, you truly need to trust your feelings. Whatever it is that you are doing now, or that you will be doing in the near future to alleviate this situation, is going to work out quite well for you. The only other thing it says is that you will be coming back into contact with something you thought you had left behind. What exactly that means for you, I do not know. You will have to wait and see.

Basically, you need to stop fretting over this, and realize that your problem is going to be short-lived. Move in the direction that seems to feel good for you at the time. What you feel will be no fluke.

I hope that helps.

Jim

 

[Tohpol]

My experience with the I Ching and other oracles is that when you use one to do a divination, you will do best by sticking to the meanings and definitions given in that particular text, and do not pull in material from other books. Some authors define some of the moving lines in almost opposite ways. So, if you are going to use one of Karcher's books to tell you what a particular set of coin tosses means, I would encourage you to use the information in that text alone to interpret your answer. And the same for Wilhelm and the others.

The whole raison d'etre for acquiring knowledge about LIFE is NOT to stick to one source but to cross-check and cross reference in order to know how best to navigate through life. The I Ching and it's principles is no different.

We cannot do that if you stay with one interpretation only. You need to study a wide variety of meanings in order to arrive at the median. You cannot do this if you stay with one book. That's why it requires study. That's why this forum presumably exists so that a wide variety of people can share their different viewpoints to give a richer meaning to text and lines - to add new dimensions that are nevertheless wholly sourced from the I Ching itself. Some lines are much more obscure than others and need to be cross referenced to obtain the overall meaning that best fits with the current question.

Personally, I like to consult a wide variety of different renderings in order to develop my own understandings for the future - to build my knowledge base and to record the results of questions that were asked. That way, we begin to learn FOR OURSELVES and also to develop some intuition on the subject. Apologies if I've misunderstood, but you seem to be advocating a contraction towards one book only while interpretating (or even your method perhaps?) and not to explore other renderings. This seems ludicrous.

Topal

 

[bruce_g]

Hi Miajay,

You’re right, often the Yi does play your question back to you, and that can sometimes be quite frustrating. But the object of it is to help us gain a more objective picture of what’s really going on - the bigger picture. Once we “see” what we’re dealing with, the way to improvement becomes visible.

In fact, your reading of 57.5-18 appears to reflect this very thing. Persisting has benefits, remorse leaves, s’all good. Line 5 speaks to the process of coming to clear conclusions, and fixing (18) false or outdated understanding. Improving your understanding ‘improves your situation’.

 

[maiajay]

Thank you Willowfox, Bruce and Jim for the replies--

...So appreciating your generosity, Jim. The reading you did resonates.

And your suggestions about using one translation... brings up a curiosity for me--
one that I have considered presenting on the board to hear others' feelings (am guessing has come up among you before, but I have not come across it--feel free to direct me to the archives if this is a covered topic--). That is: If one presupposes both the Yi's intelligence and its relationship with the individual consulting, I have wondered if the oracle 'knows what we know.' In other words, if I have in my mind a particular idea of what a given hexagram generally communicates, if the oracle will adjust around my understanding. Jim's suggestion to use one translation seems to address this--I felt like Jim was saying, that the Yi will take into account what it knows about how and what you are consulting...and will and respond with that "in mind." I have had strong intuitions in the past that this is happening...and not only around translations but also in terms of our basic associations with the hexagrams and lines...Still, I do also cross-reference other translations and have learned a lot from reading the archives here about different interpretations. So, maybe the Yi can shape-shift...for every additional bit of understanding I add to my repetoire it adjusts...?
What say you all?
maiajay

 

[maiajay]

Did my reply--at least the second part of it, belong more appropriately on the Divination discussion board?

 

[jimnammack]

Maiajay:

There are different ways of going about it. Some ways work better than others. Some ways do not work very well at all.

My point was that there are lots of printed versions of the I Ching out there. Some of them vary widely in how they interpret bits of information, such as specific moving lines. One text might say that moving line X has one meaning, while another text will say that moving line X has an opposite meaning.

If you use Text A to do your divination, and that text says that moving line X means a, b, and c, then for you, moving line X will mean a, b, and c. It will not and cannot mean anything else. So, if someone else comes along who is using Text B, and they tell you that moving line X actually means d, e, and f, then for you, that will be a totally irrelevant interpretation.

In other words, we cannot cherry pick what we want the I Ching to mean.

In the world of the tarot, there are authors out there who make use of the meanings of two different decks simultaneously. They explain how to do that in their books. And in their books, when you get The Hermit, for example, the way The Hermit is defined will be somewhat half way between the two references they are using to define The Hermit. That is fine. Whatever frame of reference you are using to do the divination is the frame of reference that will be used to communicate to you through whatever oracle you are using. But, if someone else comes along with a third version of The Hermit, and tries to convince you to use that version, then you should not use that version. That version will be irrelevant.

If, on the other hand, you want to use that third version of the tarot to do your divination from the gitgo, then only the meanings associated with that third version will apply to interpreting your divination.

Regardless of the oracle you are using, there are no universal meanings for the symbols being used. You have to decide on the set of definitions you are going to use before doing the divination, then the oracle you use will converse with you in that particular language.

I have an I Ching, translated from the Chinese, that is used to do medical diagnoses. Clearly, the hexagram and moving line meanings in that text cannot be freely interchanged with the hexagram and moving line meanings of other I Ching texts. Stephen Karcher created an I Ching version that he worded in such a way so that it only addresses questions of a romantic nature. Clearly, the hexagram and moving line meanings he uses in that book are not interchangeable with the hexagram and moving line meanings used in other I Ching texts. These two example clearly demonstrate that there is no such thing as one "correct" way to define hexagrams and moving lines. You can define the hexagrams and moving lines in any way you wish, and when you use that collection of meanings as your oracle, your resultant divination will speak to you flawlessly, using that specific language you created.

I hope that answers your question. If not, please ask whatever additional questions that are still on your mind. I am enjoying this discussion very much.

Jim

 

[maiajay]

How interactive, Jim?

Maiajay:


If, on the other hand, you want to use that third version of the tarot to do your divination from the gitgo, then only the meanings associated with that third version will apply to interpreting your divination.

Regardless of the oracle you are using, there are no universal meanings for the symbols being used. You have to decide on the set of definitions you are going to use before doing the divination, then the oracle you use will converse with you in that particular language.Jim

Hi Jim,
Back to this...it is interesting to me, too. So in light of what you wrote, what if someone is just beginning to work with the I Ching and does not have set definitions of what the hexagrams mean? Or if someone is widening their repetoire of understanding, so meanings are expanding?

That was what I was referring to when I wondered, earlier in the post, if the Yi adjusts itself to the person casting? You know, let's say if the Oracle knows that I associate #1 unchanging with a particular tone or flavor--let's say I think it points to "successful outcome." But someone else, through their experience might have different connotation, perhaps, "there is a lot of creative energy moving here." Both or either might be accurate, but if I never knew the latter as an option and they Yi, had, no prediction that I would find it, would it still try to give me that meaning? Gosh, this is getting kind of koan-like...
Anyway, let me know if this is making sense--
Peace,
Maya