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specialk

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Hi all

I have been seeing a wonderful man for the past 8 months - someone I could really see myself with, and who felt the same way (mentioned children often, said stuff like "we have our whole lives to visit [insert place name here]", took me to visit his family in the first six weeks of dating, and then twice more in as many months, talked of moving in together, called me the "light of his life", asked where I had been all his life, etc).

However he broke up with me last Tuesday and I am still reeling. He is 10 years younger than me but that was not an issue in and of itself.

Everything I have been reading on the subject of reconciliation with an ex recommends no contact for a period of at least a month. However I was wanting to text him tomorrow as it is a very sad anniversary for him of something in his professional life that happened a few years ago (and he told me he marks the occasion every year), just to say I hope he wasn't too sad. When he broke up with me he said he felt "not listened to" "glossed over" (something no boyfriend has ever said to me before) and also "overawed" (ditto) and so I am torn between observing the no contact rule and wanting to demonstrate, by remembering this significant anniversary, that I did of course listen to him all the time. Any time he seemed upset, I would ask was he ok, and he always answered "I'm always ok". Ditto when I asked "Are you upset with me?" He would always say "Sweetie pie, am I EVER upset with you?!" So I just naturally assumed that things were ok. His feeling "not listened to" was complete and utter news to me and the first I heard of it was when he was breaking up with me.

I asked should I text him tomorrow and I got: hex 55 changing to 52.

I then asked should I wait at least a month before contacting him and I got: 18

I then asked should I wait for him to contact me instead, and got: 49 changing to 37

Finally I asked what would the outcome be of me waiting to hear from him rather than initiating contact, and I got: 23 changing to 4.

What blows me away about 4 is the mention of "the young fool", which could not be more apt given our age differences. Also the mention of my not seeking out the young fool but rather the other way around. Of course, I don't think he is a fool, but I do think throwing such a fantastic relationship away without giving it (or me) a chance to change and work on whatever he felt was wrong is a bit hasty and foolish, given all of the wonderful stuff that was there and the beautiful 8 months we just spent together. I suppose because I am older I know from experience how bloody hard it can be to find a true soulmate and someone you can really see yourself settling down with, and maybe he doesn't yet realise this.

Anyway, any insights anyone has on any of the above would be most welcome. :confused:

Many thanks
specialK
 
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willowfox

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I asked should I text him tomorrow and I got: hex 55 changing to 52.


Finally I asked what would the outcome be of me waiting to hear from him rather than initiating contact, and I got: 23 changing to 4.
55.1,4,6 suggests yes call him and wait for his reply. Go with this option initially.

23.2 suggests that you will wait forever.
 

themis

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Hello,

Sorry to read about this.
All pertinent lines in Hexs indicate there'll be no positive movement, except in 49 ! Auspicious ! He'll
transform somewhat, feel remorse. So just sit tight.
55 - things have reached a climax and he won't be receptive.
18 - decay/spoilt (a necessary process for renewal/repair)
23 - discarding/stripping
Q.3 & 4 are similar questions, in which case the second response may be contradictory.
It's his loss, which will become apparent when you look back in retrospect. He had to blame
you for something ... a pretext .... don't despair.

T
 
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specialk

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Thanks for the replies folks. I texted him but nothing came of it. I do feel however, pursuant to 49, that he will repent of leaving me.

The text was very short. I asked today whether I should email him re our breakup in more depth, and got 61 changing to 3. Can't decide whether the assailant mutating into a fiancé in 3 is a good omen or not. Or whether I should concentrate on the line in 3 which says give up the chase. This is where I find the I Ching so confusing - these two lines seem to be at odds. Hilary says on the one hand to pay attention to the literal words of the hexagrams and not just the images. This would suggest the wooing fiancé thing. But I still can't square it with abandoning the chase of the deer in the forest. As a woman, I would of course MUCH rather be chased than do the chasing.

specialK
 

willowfox

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I asked today whether I should email him re our breakup in more depth, and got 61.2,6 changing to 3.

Anyway, line 61.2 says yes, send an email with feelings, from the heart so to speak.

Remember to be patient as well.
 

specialk

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patience

Thanks, I'll try that. I am willing to wait for months if necessary so no problem with the patience end of things. I had already decided no contact for one month (that is, no contact after I send this email) anyway.
 

specialk

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Also, T, I think you are on the money about him using a weird pretex to break up with me. I have never in my life been told that I don't listen (to boyfriends) or that boyfriends felt "glossed over" by me, so it didn't ring true at all.
 

themis

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Something to bear in mind: Q.1 dd 29/3 is similar to that you considered sending yesterday (re. message posted at 10:48 am) hence ICs response is contradictory; in which case only the first response to a particular question should be taken into consideration. 'The initial oracle-consulting notifies. Twice, thrice obscuring. Obscuring by consequence not notifying.'

He may resurface soon, possibly after several months. Whether it takes long or not, best to wait.
Thereby, you can be sure his conduct will be more appropriate. 'Absence makes the heart grow fonder'. And as the saying goes, we don't appreciate the value of something until we've lost it.

Glad you've realised you're really not at fault. Whatever your age, it seems it wouldn't pose a
problem re. prospective suitors, heart throbs, etc.
 

specialk

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Thanks for that Themis. I'm a bit confused by what you mean by Q1 - are you referring to where I asked in my 29/3 post should I text him and got 55 changing to 52? In which case, pay attention to that answer and not to any subsequent ones? Thus: keep still?

I hadn't consulted the I Ching for literally years up until the flurry of consultations I mention in my 29/3 post, so I was kind of like a runaway train, going a bit nuts with the castings at first. I've stopped now and am just trying to absorb the meanings of the ones I've gotten so far.

The "keeping still" will not be a problem (well I mean obviously it WILL be a problem as it hurts like hell not having him around - but what I mean is that I don't have a choice but to wait, as we can't MAKE anyone do anything). However I was very encouraged by 61 changing to 3 in relation to sending him just one email telling him what he means to me. I don't intend to enter into correspondence (I will even ask him not to reply to the email) but just to send a one-off mail and then completely fall off the radar to give him space to miss me, as you suggest. For months, if necessary. What do you think?

You're right Themis: the age thing is not a problem in itself but I want children. So does he, but despite talking about children a LOT to me during our time together, I suspect he has panicked. I told him in so many words just after Christmas that I wanted children (I can't NOT tell any boyfriend that at my age as I simply don't have years to fritter away any more and I owe it to myself and to them to be honest about it), and his very encouraging response was that he was the type of man who becomes galvanised and motivated by pressure rather than running away from it. His favourite quote from his dad was "You will be a great father because you will know to do the exact opposite of everything I did" (his father was completely absent from his life growing up). If he told me that quote once, he told me it 20 times, suggestive of a man who is looking forward to having children. So all in all, I really did not expect the rug to be pulled from under my feet in this way. Still reeling.

Thanks for caring and for your helpful posts.
SK
 

themis

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Yes, that's the one I was referring to.

I'd keep still and not take any initiative. I can imagine how you feel, but know that he must be
aware of how much the relationship meant and still means to you. He may need some space
right now, hence backtracking. Could be if he'd detached himself gently and slowly it would have
been more painful/difficult for him.

In this day and age it's possible to have kids way past the ideal age. Not suggesting you wait
until it's really quite late. Perhaps you could focus on something else presently and see how things unfold. He may genuinely wish to have kids too, he might just need to digest it all first. Sounds
like he's fond of his Dad - a positive thing, even though his Dad was absent whilst growing up.

So Ms Special ... your prayer/wish to have children has been heard by the universe.

T
 

specialk

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I'm so glad you can believe that on my behalf Themis - I am so black and blue, emotionally speaking, that I don't know what or who to rely on any more and wonder does anyone ever mean what they say and does anyone have true staying power? After 5 years of being strung along by men with absolutely no interest in anything long term with me, I finally meet one who quite clearly has, and then HE disappears as well. Apart from the pain of losing him I've really begun to doubt my own judgment of people. How are you supposed to believe anything any man says to you if a few months later they do a cpmplete 180? Actually now that I type that, I can see that it really must have been the baby issue that has spooked him. He had a huge falling out with his only sister over Christmas and now has lost contact with his adored niece and nephew because of it. Initially he was saying "oh well, I'll just start my own family!" and while it was clearly awful and upsetting for him that he doesn't talk to his sister now (and I actively encouraged him to patch things up there) I inwardly was thankful that here was an added incentive for him to start his own family.

Anyway, I'm so glad you think the Universe has heard my desire for a husband and family. I feel like I've been waiting so long for it that there must be some kind of curse on me, or something, so I find it very hard to believe that the Universe even knows I exist, never mind what my desires are. It's a very rare woman who relishes being alone and childless at 42, watching everyone else get engaged, married and have families. My own best friend got married a few weeks ago. I used to have a lot of anger around this but that all vanished when I met the man I've been talking about.

I will take your advice and do nothing. Anyway isn't there a line that goes "When you don't know what to do, do nothing"? Apart from pestering the I Ching, that is!

Thanks so much,
SK
 

themis

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All our prayers/wishes are heard and we wait for our prayers to be answered and wishes granted.

Wishing well,

T
 

willowfox

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All our wishes are heard and we wait for our wishes to be granted.

Wishing well,

T
Darn it, I am still waiting. Is there a time limit on this offer as I seem to have passed it.
 

themis

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It's not an offer. All is heard, but will all be answered/granted ?... we do not know, time will tell.
'L'homme propose, Dieu dispose' or 'N'shala' = God willing. That's what is said over here. Guess you've heard these before. How can I best translate ... we express our wishes and God decides/dispenses. Meanwhile, whilst continuing our path on earth, we do what we possibly can. Where marriage is concerned there's no time limit whatsoever.
 
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specialk

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You're right T, no expiry date on marriage. Although if a man wants to have children they won't want to be with someone who is too old to. I wake every morning with a stomach full of anxiety about this now that I'm single again. What I want is the most natural thing in the world (marriage and a family) but it seems that every time I get close, another obstacle is thrown in my way.:brickwall:

"Over here"? Where are you from, Themis? And what language is "n'shala"?

SK
 

themis

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Special, do please let go ... release the negative, embrace the positive. I know it's easier said than
done. Perhaps you appear younger than your years and if that's the case it applies to your general
constitution ... more importantly your biological clock ... faith ... And if you don't appear
younger, have faith anyway cos providence does exist. There are men who really don't mind
the lady's age. If their intentions are honourable and they truly love, over 40s are acceptable
and very trendy at present. The actress Emma Thompson married 'the ultimate boy' when she was about 40, she credits him with having boosted her self-confidence. At 46 she declared
'getting older is just lovely' words to that effect, may not be exact. And she's shining, looks
much better than 10-15 yrs. ago - she's changed her 'look'. Marcia Cross 'Desperate
Housewives' tied the knot not so long ago (she's in her late 40s) and promptly delivered twins!

Special and Willowfox, N'shala is Arabic. There's a lot of their influence here being Switzerland; in that many of their language expressions are used.
 
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specialk

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I really, really hope you're right Themis. It's so hard not to worry and get depressed about it, especially watching everyone else getting married over the last 10 years. Thanks for the good wishes.
SK
 

themis

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Hope you're feeling better. Do use this time to nourish your spirit, restore your soul and do
all that you've been meaning to do. Worrying is a waste of energy. But I do know how you feel. Just remember, when you step out you have admirers (may be secret ones too) gazing perhaps furtively ... like in the song 'The girl from Ipanema'. 'She smiles but she doesn't see'
(by Astrud Gilberto).

Take good care of yourself.

T


Tut tut ... herewith correct spelling: N'shallah
 

greenfrog

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Hi specialk

Your story reminded me of a book I am currently reading. You may have heard of it, it's called "Women who run with the wolves" by Clarissa Pinkola Estes.

It's about the spirit of womankind. I am finding it a liberating read and an invaluable support to re-centre myself on what is important. She uses myths and legends as well as her training in psychoanalysis to illustrate the works of women's psyche. Some of the book is about woman-man relationship but mostly it is about being the best woman you can be.

Hope this help.

Best wishes

G
 

specialk

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Thanks Themis, but the more I'm away from him, the more I realise how much I want to be with him. Hopefully it's the same thing his end. It would want to be a pretty outstanding secret admirer (and not one who stays secret too long, or else they will miss their chance) to make me forget about A. I have been dating on an internet site (same way I met him) but it's so futile because all I wish I was doing was heading out to meet him instead of a bunch of other random guys. I'm only doing it on advice to "distract myself", not with any serious intent.

SK

G, sorry but I'm not sure what exactly you're saying about this running with the wolves book. I have no desire to run with the wolves. I am all about settling down with my dream man and starting a family. I am 42 years of age and this is LONG overdue. I am sick and tired of watching it happen for everyone else but me. And then when I finally meet the man I was SURE about, he disappears. And I simply CANNOT be the best woman I can be until I am in a fulfilling and lasting relationship which produces some beautiful children. Being single at this age is entirely meaningless to me. We are created to be in intimate relationships and I have had more than enough time on my own over the years to figure out "who I am" etc. I am fully sure of who I am at this point and now it's time to share all the wonderful qualities I have with my Mr Right.

SK
 
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specialk

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I don't mean to sound churlish to anyone but I was looking at photos of him tonight that I have saved on my computer of our times together over the last 8 months and it was very painful to see what is gone. I am holding the high watch for him coming back into my life. Trying to ask, believe and recieve, like that book The Secret says, and also the Bible: Ask and you shall recieve (if you have faith). I asked how he was feeling about me at the moment and got 57, unchanging. According to the interpretation on this site, it is interpenetration, ie influence both ways, leading on to 58 - open joyful communication. So even if (and I'm not sure this is true anyway ) we are "not supposed" to ask about another's feelings, 57 is still positive as it suggests that I still have a presence in his life. So here's hoping. I will not be contacting him until at least the middle of May, although he is running in a marathon soon so I do expect a text from him afterwards letting me know how he got on, so I expect I should respond to that. And in fact I may not even contact him in the middle of May, but instead leave him space to miss me properly.

Thanks for your support as always everyone.
 
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willowfox

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Hex 57 is made up of wind over wind which indicates a gentleness of feelings, a sentivity but the man seems to need his space thus the separation.
 

themis

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Special,

I dare say there can't be much 'space' left for a potential bf if you're pining away for Mr. X. I do
realise it's a necessary process to a certain extent. But pining for lost/unrequited love can be
debilitating in the long run. I guess this is not the best time to start 'looking' even as a source
of distraction ... not until you feel good about yourself.

The book Greenfrog recommended, according to L. Bryannan's review, provides nourishment for
the soul, and is meant for 'any woman who longs in her secret self for something more' etc. I haven't
read it but I recall seeing it at a friend's place a few years ago. Now that I know it's been translated
into E, I shall read it next ... Well, G can tell you about it, it's her prerogative.

Yes, Hex 57 is all about 'grounding, gently supporting and nourishing things from below' isn't that
nice ? Image of the Situation: "The root. The small, Growing. Harvesting possessing directed going.
Harvesting: viewing the great in the person."

The Reader 'Jesed' suggests the following four questions in this order, along the lines of:

Global analysis of the relation between X and I
My position in relation to X
X's position in relation to me
Best thing for me to do

Works well for me.

T
 

specialk

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Hex 57 is made up of wind over wind which indicates a gentleness of feelings, a sentivity but the man seems to need his space thus the separation.
The thing is, Willowfox, he very much DIDN'T need his space when we first got together. For starters he was on a dating site and wanted a serious relationsip. He behaved like a committed boyfriend from Day 1, which is exactly what I was ready for, what I wanted and hoped for. I never texted him first on any given day, it was always him, and if I hadn't replied for a couple of hours (due to being busy or not seeing the text or whatever) he always texted again wondering where I was etc. He took me to meet his family a month after we started seeing each other. I didn't introduce him to mine for four or five months. He expected to spend most of his free time with me. He took a transatlantic flight to meet me for a holiday two months after we met. He mentioned moving in, marriage and children, all within 8 months. There are numerous other examples of him jumping in wholeheartedly to the relationship which I was delighted with because I am so ready for it, and I felt the same about him. And here was someone who CLEARLY wanted to be with ME (as opposed to just anyone for the sake of having a girlfriend around) and who wanted something solid and long-term too. And so I relaxed into it and felt safe and comfortable and so, so happy. And then bam, he's gone.

You're probably going to say that whether he needed his space or not during our time together, he needs it now, so just get on with your life. I have no choice but to do that but it doesn't mean my heart isn't broken. For one thing, how I am ever supposed to trust someone else to know what they want and to be reliable, even when they make it as clear as day to me that they want me, and behave accordingly for months? Do I have to second-guess people for the rest of my life? How are you supposed to make any kind of long term plans with anyone, when they could just up and leave six months later, no matter how committed they are? It is grossly unfair to attach yourself to someone in so emphatic a manner, induce in them a state of trust and comfort and happiness, and then abandon them. What ever happened to sitting down and working things out, talking them out, communicating? Valuing the good that is there in a relationship and not rushing to throw it away at the first hurdle? Appreciating it when you meet someone so right for you, and how immensely hard that is to find, instead of just cashing it all in for "space"? We (humans) were created to be in intimacy, not "space". There is plenty of scope within committed relationships to provide for each person's space, or alone time, or quiet time (I'm an especial fan of quiet time myself and like to have some every day - I am quite happy sitting doing the crossword while my partner is on the computer, or doing errands, or whatever) especially in a situation where you don't live together. These things can be arranged for. But no, just throw it all away instead.
 

einhorn

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The key component to getting back with an ex is making them miss you. this is why all the books say to go at least a month of no contact. the urge to contact them right away is strong but it must be overcome.

consider how YOU are feeling. you're missng him. you're wondering what he's doing. you're wondering if he's dating other people. it's driving you nuts! you need for HIM to have those feelings about you.

In nearly every case, if you're trying to get a ex back, the correct course of action is NOT to try and show them how much YOU care. remember, He dumped YOU. your feelings toward him were overshadowed by his lack of interest in you. Consider this:

have you ever dumped someone who was really into you? it broke their heart, didn't it. Now, in that situation, would them telling you how much they love you, or how much they care about you, etc. have changed anyting? No. because you dumped them because of how YOU felt, not because of how THEY felt.

People need space in order to miss someone.

the first long term reltionship i had was 3.5 years. i ended up breaking up with her and completely broke her heart. she got super needy after i broke up with her and it pushed me away further. the strange thing is, a few weeks or months later, i really started to regret my decision. i really missed her. but she had moved on (to the guy she married).

if you want to have a chance at getting the guy back:
1) DO NOT BE NEEDY. no contact. no txt even on special occasions. no email. he needs to wonder if you're thinking about him or not, not constantly be hearing from you and getting annoyed
2) see #1
3) Give him time to miss you. let him wonder (the same way you are wondering right now)
4) work on yourself (this can be hard depending on how depressed you are at the moment). go to the gym, whiten your teeth, go do something that doesn't remind you of him. make yourself so awesome that you become too good for him. this will help your confidence and give you more power. if you run into him, he wll think "oh no, she seems like she's doing well and she looks really good; with that confidence i bet she has a ton of guys to choose from!" that will give him the doubt that you are feeling now.
5) #1. even if you don't do any of these other things, DO NOT BE NEEDY.

People want what they can't have (look how bad you want him right now). Don't make yourself so available to him.

i'm not saying play games, because you're probably better than that, but if you guys DO get back together, do not give yourself to him on a silver platter. you want a serious relationship and if he wants to just keep things casual, you are going to find someone else and HE is going to lose YOU.

that being said, it's possible that he just wasn't that into you and just gave you excuses when he dumped you. if you find out he met someone else and dumped you, and then it didnt work out with her so now he wants you back, RUN away. you'll always be his 2nd choice. I don't know about you, but i refuse to date anyone for whom i am not absolutely #1. i'd rather be single than be someone's second choice.

Good luck. it's possible. don't be needy.
 

specialk

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Sorry for the rant but I am so bewildered and thrown by all this. As you've probably gathered :) I'm a person who says what she means and means what she says (or else just keeps quiet if that's not safe), and is pretty sure of her feelings in any given situation, and also able to communicate them, so I just have grave difficulty negotiating situations where people act one way but are thinking/feeling another way. Emotional dishonesty, I think they call it. That may be too harsh because apparently sometimes people don't even know what they are feeling so can't articulate it (usually men). I guess it only becomes emotional dishonesty when the person IS aware of what they are feeling but acts otherwise. I just don't get how it's possible to live a life like that. And then others are the ones who get burned by the disconnect, not the person themselves.
 

specialk

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Einhorn: Dude (I presume you're a dude :) ) thanks for the advice, which accords completely with anything I've read on the subject. I have already cut all contact and as I posted, am even considering not replying to him if he texts me. So don't worry, I'm done with all that. I'm not acting needy to him at all these days and in fact am talking to other guys on a dating site (not because I am over him but just as practice, or whatever). He has told me he still cares for me and the one thing he doesn't do is play games. So yes, I'm very much in the school of making space for him to miss me (which he will when things settle down after this sporting event he's been training for). I probably sound more needy in my posts than I actually act on a daily basis, if you follow me. That's because this is a great forum to get stuff off your chest, but it doesn't mean you then behave like that for the whole rest of the day. But as to making myself available to him, I'm not doing that at all. So don't worry!

And yes, when he comes back, there will be no jumping straight in. He certainly won't get me on a silver platter. For one thing, I need to know whether I can trust him to mean what he says into the future and that will take time to demonstrate.

Cheers,
SK :)
 

einhorn

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the people who say they don't play games are usually the biggest game players of all.

actions speak louder than words.

remember that everything he said is now negated because he left you. all the i love yous, all the future plans, if he *really* felt that way he'd be trying to work things out with you.

contact him after a month or so but don't get your hopes up. have other cool stuff going on in your life by then.

good luck.
 

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