letting go of iching

[davy]

For a few days I have been growing. My visions are brighter, but I feel as if the Yi isn't answering my questions adequately.

I have been very emotional lately. My goals and aspirations are so close I can almost stick out my tongue and taste them. It is almost like I am near the top of this mountain, the one I have been climbing for years [over 20]. I have been struggling with my goals and working 16 hour days, everyday. I work when others are sleeping. I work when others are playing, and I do it because I KNOW it will pay off. I am so good at what I do, and it was because I spent a lot of time doing it. There are clouds obscuring my vision a little, but I get these great visions. I am almost there. Soon, I won't have to worry about money, or wife or paying bills. It is just right there. *David reaches out and grabs a hand full of mist* The Yi has made me more and more aware of the presence of it, and still the manifestation is not yet objective. I can't touch it just yet. My intuition says I have to wait a while long, maybe a year or a little longer. But the Yi makes it sound like I can have it right now. I used to calm, but now I am nervous, looking around every corner, and the oracle then says BE CALM. I was calm you twit of coins!

So, I asked the question, would it be best if I let the iching out of my life?

The Yi can be extremely esoteric, and I got back 17.2.5 > 54 Line five states, using the RL Wing translation, If you sincerely insist upon the very best, the chances are that you will get it. Set your sights high. Good fortune.

Well, this sound more like that Yi is trying to answer the questions I have been having about ***** the celebrity, and my personal goals. I insist upon the very best. I know I can get it. Is it trying to pacify me? IS it fooling with my head? OF course I have been working on these goals long before I invited the oracle in my life. And then, to make things more esoteric, the secondary hexagram was 54, the marrying maiden. I'm not making myself subordinate to anyone! I don't play second fiddle. Second fiddle is not the very best.

I can use some input here, but I am about to throw this oracle out the window. It doesn't make sense, and I see it more of mind f*** than having any actual meaning. So, hopefully I haven't offended any of you who really depend upon this, but for me, unless someone can give me a good reason to hang on, I may be moving on.

For now I just need a good explanation of the casting 17.2.5 > 54

Thank you :bows:

 

[Trojina]

i just need a good explanation of why you posted this http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showpost.php?p=150167&postcount=149 in the 'aha ' thread.....and were waiting for responses there. and why no one moved it to a new thread where it belongs....shame to mess up the aha thread

Thats a thread for a specific purpose rather than an in depth conversation with you about your thoughts on using the I Ching

You've asked these questions here before though haven't you...where you want others to spend time convincing you its good to use the I Ching

Can't see why...

if you don't want to use it don't use it ...simple



oh edited to add that thread I linked to is now in Exploring Divination as a new thread

 

[riurik]

unless someone can give me a good reason to hang on, I may be moving on.

Move on, by all means

 

[anemos]

Well, this sound more like that Yi is trying to answer the questions I have been having about ***** the celebrity, and my personal goals. I insist upon the very best. I know I can get it. Is it trying to pacify me? IS it fooling with my head? OF course I have been working on these goals long before I invited the oracle in my life. And then, to make things more esoteric, the secondary hexagram was 54, the marrying maiden. I'm not making myself subordinate to anyone! I don't play second fiddle. Second fiddle is not the very best.

In such cases i see 54 as "consent"

"The man leads and the girl follows him in gladness."

some use the word "compromise" for 54. I prefer Consent. You say "YES", wholehearted.

 

[anemos]

This is from H17

An older man defers to a young girl and shows her
consideration. By this he moves her to follow him.

Interesting !!!

There is a pattern here that maybe describes the answer you are seeking

 

[davy]

anemos, thank you for your respect. Maybe I am in need of convincing. I want something I can trust. THe girl does like me, a lot. I just can't be with her right now. I am so frustrated that it is causing me a lot of emotions. I am being a kid that's been told, you're getting a PSP for christmas, but you can't have it right now, and Christmas is 6 months away!!! AH! "The man leads and the girl follows him gladness." Hits the nail. "An older man defers to the young girl and shows her consideration. By this he moves her to follow him." anemos, there is a pattern. I love this girl, my innermost desire is to pursue a family. Whenever I ask, I get, "you are blocked" and so forth. I'm not blocked, she says yes. But, time and space is the block, and I hate the distance.

My book is being published very soon, but I found out I have to change the name of it. There is someone out there already using it who is already published. Not a big deal, but it also changes the last name of my main character. I am struggling over a new last name for her.

I also found out that a good friend of mine struggling over losing his home. I am concerned because he has a family with kids. So, all this together made me ask the Yi a larger question in the back of my mind while I am still trying to sort them out. I realize that this stuff is just a game, and I found myself trusting in it maybe a little more than to just humor myself. This just might be a game I don't want to play, then again, if Yi does give good advice, it is worth hanging onto. After all, who is giving the good advice? My subconscious and those of you who are willing to share their insights.

Thanks everyone for your post. I deeply appreciate your understanding and comments. anemos, you are very astute and intuitional. Thank you for being calm with me and addressing the issue. Peace to you all. :bows:

 

[anemos]

So, I asked the question, would it be best if I let the iching out of my life?


For now I just need a good explanation of the casting 17.2.5 > 54

Thank you :bows:

This is a very very intriguing reading !!!

you : So, Yi, should i choose you as a teacher /helper/ advisor..... etc
Yi : Don't ask me !!! its your CHOICE !!! I'm here and you are welcome. You can stay or you can leave.

 

[anemos]

Thanks everyone for your post. I deeply appreciate your understanding and comments. anemos, you are very astute and intuitional. Thank you for being calm with me and addressing the issue. Peace to you all. :bows:

you are welcome.

You know something ? I know its the worst thing that will make you feel better but ... you are not alone.

I have receive every Line that talks about obstruction/blockages and difficulties. For more that a year I'm literally Blocked. What I keep have in mind is Hex 39 .. finding another way.

I follow, regarding my studies, my Second best choice. My First is not available at the moment. I'm working towards my first through it but the bottom line is that it is my second . its a 54 thing. I enjoy a lot what i do but there are things I don't like at all.

I think I know what my Lonestar is , and i don't know if i manage to succeed to do what i wish to do ... but I'll give it a go. Nothing force me to choose that 54 thing. I consent and keep walking. its a stage not the whole thing

 

[davy]

For me, I am more assertive. I just tell God what I want, and go for it with all my actions. Sometimes, I meet with opposition, like with the distance of this girl, I can't close the distance without physically going to where she is, and because of my duties here, I can't right now. I also meet with resistance of other's making up their minds, but once they meet with my personality and enthusiasm, things always seem to work out. They can see my vision and my dream, and most people want a vision with someone who is tenacious enough to carry it out. That's been my experience. When my girlfriend/wife meets me, it's almost all over. I say almost because there still the kiss the seals the meeting. She has to want to kiss me. She already does, we just have to meet. It is being so sure and so confident, the universe gives way to such leaders. I know and act as if it is already a done deal. Do this with humility and grace, it is very powerful.

Don't get me wrong, I have a meeting with doubt everyday. Doubt has a very strong personality and sometimes he is so close to convincing me that I should just give in. IT IS MADDENING! I literally get down on my knees and pray. Ultimately, I realize the it will all come about if I just keep going. With this girl, I want her now, but I am going to wait. I can wait, it may be hard, it may push me to limits I have never experienced before, but it is not impossible, and Yi isn't going to tell me that it is impossible! The Yi is not God. The Yi is only my intuition for today; not tomorrow, so no answer it gives is in anyway life everlasting. God's word is everlasting, and one day, I will in tune in enough to hear the everlasting word without the help of Yi. So, do I want to leave Yi to hear the everlasting word of God? YES! I think the usefulness of Yi is that is has taught me a little about how to listen more carefully. yes, I fail, but for me the metaphor is more like being on a path through the mountains. The path is really thin in places, and sometimes I get off the path. Sometimes I am pushed off by distractions, or enticements, or by a storm because I have to seek shelter, but I always try to come back to the path. And if one day I am so engrossed in a distraction, grace reminds me to continue on my quest. Thank God for grace.

As far as your 54 thing, sometimes we need to subordinate to another. The great lesson in that is when we decide that subordination doesn't have to happen. If you find yourself looking at another, wishing you could be her, then it is time to stop being subordinate because you are capable of being the wife. Rebel against that which you don't want. Yi isn't keeping you there, you are. I have done it too, and I may do it in the future. It is one of those things that we choose to do because it fulfills some of our needs. It gets unhealthy when it starts to eat at our craw.

Best to you, and thank you for your friendship. I haven't decided fully if I plan to leave yet, so we may be talking again.

 

[Trojina]

For me, I am more assertive. I just tell God what I want, and go for it with all my actions. Sometimes, I meet with opposition, like with the distance of this girl, I can't close the distance without physically going to where she is, and because of my duties here, I can't right now. I also meet with resistance of other's making up their minds, but once they meet with my personality and enthusiasm, things always seem to work out. They can see my vision and my dream, and most people want a vision with someone who is tenacious enough to carry it out. That's been my experience. When my girlfriend/wife meets me, it's almost all over. I say almost because there still the kiss the seals the meeting. She has to want to kiss me. She already does, we just have to meet. It is being so sure and so confident, the universe gives way to such leaders. I know and act as if it is already a done deal. Do this with humility and grace, it is very powerful.

Don't get me wrong, I have a meeting with doubt everyday. Doubt has a very strong personality and sometimes he is so close to convincing me that I should just give in. IT IS MADDENING! I literally get down on my knees and pray. Ultimately, I realize the it will all come about if I just keep going. With this girl, I want her now, but I am going to wait. I can wait, it may be hard, it may push me to limits I have never experienced before, but it is not impossible, and Yi isn't going to tell me that it is impossible! The Yi is not God. The Yi is only my intuition for today; not tomorrow, so no answer it gives is in anyway life everlasting. God's word is everlasting, and one day, I will in tune in enough to hear the everlasting word without the help of Yi. So, do I want to leave Yi to hear the everlasting word of God? YES! I think the usefulness of Yi is that is has taught me a little about how to listen more carefully. yes, I fail, but for me the metaphor is more like being on a path through the mountains. The path is really thin in places, and sometimes I get off the path. Sometimes I am pushed off by distractions, or enticements, or by a storm because I have to seek shelter, but I always try to come back to the path. And if one day I am so engrossed in a distraction, grace reminds me to continue on my quest. Thank God for grace.

As far as your 54 thing, sometimes we need to subordinate to another. The great lesson in that is when we decide that subordination doesn't have to happen. If you find yourself looking at another, wishing you could be her, then it is time to stop being subordinate because you are capable of being the wife. Rebel against that which you don't want. Yi isn't keeping you there, you are. I have done it too, and I may do it in the future. It is one of those things that we choose to do because it fulfills some of our needs. It gets unhealthy when it starts to eat at our craw.

Best to you, and thank you for your friendship. I haven't decided fully if I plan to leave yet, so we may be talking again.

All this talk of God reminds me of someone here called Superman a while back. he seemed to be coming at things from the same angle as yourself if you look back over his threads...do you think ? Like this one http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=11997 he gives lots of reasons not to use the I Ching

in the end seemed his agenda was almost warning people not to use the I Ching...maybe he was a fundamentalist Christian or something. I have the feeling you are working around to that message here ?

 

[Trojina]

Anyway check out 'supermans' other threads here, you might find them interesting, you might relate to them ?

 

[Lavalamp]

My understanding is in China the leadership did not use the iChing for divination. They considered it a good reference to understand life, changes and the way, but relied on their own sense of morality and ethics - or lack thereof - to guide them. It was only the masses that used the iChing for divination, leaders thought it could cause confusion and impede responsible action.
I reconcile this with my own use of the iChing by figuring it is a window within, for the sake of tapping my own unconscious, which is also connected with the greater unconscious. Sometimes this connection is better than at other times, and where the human heart is concerned nothing is certain if people are flakey.
The iChing is good tool for self reflection as it were, perhaps like asking yourself questions with a pendulum or analyzing one's dreams. But love and the power of human creativity trumps the stars I think, and so considering anything beyond what we can do because of a reading is a mistake I feel. Tempting to be a bit chickenshit based on readings, but I think as we have the entire Universe within us, we can transcend quite a lot, if we can access our own power.
Of course, when dealing with women who also have all the power of the other half of the Universe - all bets are off....

 

[Lavalamp]

Umm sorry, didn't mean to suck all the air out of the room...

 

[tealight]

My understanding is in China the leadership did not use the iChing for divination. They considered it a good reference to understand life, changes and the way, but relied on their own sense of morality and ethics - or lack thereof - to guide them. It was only the masses that used the iChing for divination, leaders thought it could cause confusion and impede responsible action.

I don't see what this is in response to. And I don't know enough about the history to dispute the accuracy of what you're saying. However, I don't think that "using one's own morality and ethics" and consulting the I Ching has to be a case of either/or. Also, of what relevance is it what leaders think(or what they say they think)?

 

[Lavalamp]

I don't see what this is in response to. And I don't know enough about the history to dispute the accuracy of what you're saying. However, I don't think that "using one's own morality and ethics" and consulting the I Ching has to be a case of either/or. Also, of what relevance is it what leaders think(or what they say they think)?

Well I got the impression the original poster was talking about maybe not using the iChing anymore as divination tool. My point is it is valuable regardless of whether it is used for divination or not, and many of the "Superior Men", Kings and Officials did not like the idea of deciding major issues based on the tossing of sticks/the "flip of a coin" so to speak, either.

When I have discussed this with the iChing, what it has told me I understood basically to be there are signs all around us in life, if we are open to read them. The real question is whether we are open to hear what God and the Universe is saying to us, and this could even be through what we see when we are just walking down the street. If we have questions the Universe will answer us. And in the end, intuition is the highest gift and what we need to understand a reading anyway. But when we are blocked or things are cloudy, it's valuable to have someone else help us, when we can't see straight or our waters are too muddy.

- L

 

[Lavalamp]

My other point is I think human free will and creativity transcends the "Time" - in terms of "Changes" in play or astrology, the position of the stars. Because we are the microcosm that contains every change, and all the planets and stars within us.

But other human beings are also a microcosm, and so the interplay of human potentialities can be pretty unpredictable, depending on one's personal evolution, or lack thereof.

I will take misfortune sometimes as predicted in a reading, if it's the only way to be true to my heart. And the result could be good in the end, I think. Matters of the heart involve risk, and when I sometimes see people run from relationships here because of a bad reading, i wonder if this is just affirming a decision they have already made. Certainly you can't tell someone you are breaking up with it because of what you got when you tossed a couple of coins - who'd believe that anyway?

 

[chingching]

Most users here tend not to place the decision making process sole on yi, that's the whole subject of the sticky for relationship q's and why asking ' show me a picture' 'what do I need to know' 'what quality of Tim is it for this situation' etc are more conducive to experiencing an epiphany or a deeper understanding than asking 'should I break up with '. The consultation method used in the former leads the querent to a possible broadening of perspective. You can have sound ethics and behave well but you'd never expand beyond your own perspective, you can by consulting yi amongst other things. I can think of a doco I watched where an inmate after years in high security solitary cell had insight into his actions. That is the hard road to insight. I think though if you don't have a solid basis as to how and why you consult an Oracle it can become unhelpful.

as a thread in cc has quickly discovered consulting yi as an Oracle leads to unexpected answers which are more fertile than using the text as a reference.

Edited to add, the inmate wad more than an insight, he was enlightened, I don't think that often happens in prisons bit it was very interesting

 

[anemos]

Best to you, and thank you for your friendship. I haven't decided fully if I plan to leave yet, so we may be talking again.

Thank you for this and the other message. I'm moved.

Take care and good luck with the Girl !!!

Maria
:bows:

p.s. I respect Little Mei. She has guts and in heart, I believe, she is a rebel.