Light on the Dark Bird

[freemanc]

Yes, isn't 36.1 heartbreaking in this light! I think political passion betrayed is almost as touching and heartbreaking a theme as romantic love betrayed.

In my mind, I had sort of tied the 3 days fast to the timing of meetings, and 3 days very hard riding. But I like the pathos of the reading of Lord Ji simply so heartsick he couldn't eat for 3 days very much indeed.

Another thought is that I don't really know what ceremonial fasts were like for the Shang/Zhou. I have this idea that battle was preceded by some sort of fasting, for example.

And Hilary, yes, exactly so. He couldn't work with the Zhou. He is said to have taken a group to Korea, and founded Pyongyang.

In North Korea Jizi is apparently controversial, because of the winds of politics, the idea that Pyongyang was founded by Chinese royals is, at least sometimes, anathema. I don't know how Lord Ji's stock is priced in Korea at the moment; it would be worth knowing.

Yes, even for central Texas 21 years between snows is a long time.

I shot a roll of film in my holga on the Valentine's Day snow last year. JerryD, your snow business has lured me into posting a self portrait from that roll on the profile.

 

[jerryd]

Freemanc, you do not know by chance a Dentist now, deceased who once practiced in Austin in the early 80's? His last name was Jenkins? Just a curious thought passing through my mind as I look at your snow scene, He had a property near a lake whos name I have forgotten but seemed to be legondary around Austin. ( the lake ) not the man.

 

[cal val]

Hi Freeman...

I've mentioned here on this forum before that the Zhouyi sort of reminds me of TV writers sitting around a conference table shuffling around scenes written on index cards until they get a story they think will sell to primetime sponsors. There's so much about the Zhouyi that seems to me like a compilation.

And what I've read since I began to suspect as much has confirmed as much... it is indeed a compilation of bons mots du jour about hunting, sacrificing and warfare... mostly. It's unlikely, however, the gentlemen who put it together were members of the Writers' Guild.

All the lines in hex 36 appear to be telling a story about a pheasant, and the mention of Jizi in line 5 as the pheasant makes the story especially poignant and clear that 36 is indeed one of those Zhou conquest stories.

But how do you tie other stories, such as the Shang conquest stories (63.3 and 64.4) and hexagrams such as 44 and 56 (just two examples) into the Zhou conquest?

Although I know there is frequent mention of the conquest throughout the Zhouyi, I'm not convinced it is ALL about the conquest. I'd love to know why you think it is.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Val

 

[freemanc]

Exactly so, and how wonderfully said!

By deploying a parable that opens up 43 lines of thought AND is actually funny, Val, you prove you really *are* a Sorceress.

Suppose Val, that the I Ching worked (anciently worked) just like that? -- like what you just did! (Wouldn't it be astonishing, wonderful?)

Okay. Extending your parable:

So what would Syd Field say about these guys sitting around index cards and trying to cobble together something? He would make them make a damn story arc with 3 acts, and fill in the damn blanks and make a "real movie", make something that "fit the form" something that "worked".

Well, they're not making a movie, they're making an oracle for use with casting lots.

Would any collection of bon mots have done the trick for such a procedure?

Or perhaps there would be an expectation that the pieces worked together, like parts of a story, like control structures in a programming language, like the pieces and rules of Monopoly.

What else helps make it work: An epic tale. Not all cultures process their epic tales the same way, transmit them the same way.

I respectfully submit:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22star+wars+monopoly%22&btnG=Google+Search

Isn't that great? I sort of wished it into existance, I think. Now, here's my question.

Suppose, it is a distant future, and nary a print of Star War exists. Archeological digs are filled, however, with related knicknacks of this obvious major religious or political movement. Further, One copy of Star Wars Monopoly survives!

Does the story about Star Wars "matter?" Does the artifact "tell a story"? Is it "about" the story?

The answer is that there ain't an easy answer! The object is messy, multileveled.

You have to unravel the whole strange business of "complex societies", which had "entertainment industries", with "tie ins" as well as the prior epic tale. Yes, this game tells ("refers to") an epic tale. Yes, it's other stuff altogether, too, also.

Speaking of Star Wars.

I once heard a man, youngish but not a boy, say on NPR that his whole ethical system was based on Star Wars. He could tie everything back to Star Wars.

Well, of course the first thought is that this is rather nerdy and puerile.

But I was reading the Iliad (in 2 or 3 translations side by side; I just sorta do that) at the time. If I hadn't been maybe it would have just gone in one ear and out the other. But it didn't. That radio story really haunted me for a very long time.

How do stories affect our conduct? What are stories, and non-stories? What is literature, and non-literature? When do they quit working, quit changing our conduct?

These are some of the most important questions I have ever encountered. Period. And I don't *totally* have the answer for any of them.

However.

I submit that the caveman I Ching can touch hearts that the exquisite refinements of the late 19th century I Ching of Wilhelm's informants cannot. (I say this with no contempt; I love WB and it's enriched my life a lot. But not everyone can read it.)

I further submit that it may not yield the same response line by line, but across time, the Oracle proves to be much itself in this primitive aspect. (Very respectfully, I would say: in much the same way that the Old Testament Yahweh is very much the same fellow as the rather refined, Logos-tinted deity of the Pauline New Testament).

Val, I hope I answered more or less what you asked... or at least part. You opened about 5 cans of worms. You note how I tiptoed around, evading the "telling a story" vs "referring to a story" business? Rather astute of me, I think.

FC

 

[freemanc]

And JerryD: I didn't know Dr. Jenkins. The only dentist I knew back in the day in Austin was the marvelously named Dr. Root on Guadalupe.

F