Line 2 of hexagram 42 in comparison to line 5 of hexagram 41

[nAstWr]

I would like to explore the meaning of lines 2 and 5 of hexagram 42 and 41.

42 line 2
Someone does indeed increase him; Ten pairs of tortoises cannot oppose it. Constant perseverance brings good fortune. The king presents him before God. Good fortune.

41 line 5
Someone does indeed increase him. Ten pairs of tortoises cannot oppose it. Supreme good fortune.

Both lines are considered to be the most auspicious of all the lines.
As we notice there is a difference in line 2 of hex 42 in comparison to line 5 of 41: "The king presents him before God" Does this sentence make line 2 much more auspicious than line 5 of hex 41?
Could this show that if you "sacrifice" to God, God accepts and unexpected supreme good fortune comes to you? Even if your situation seems really hopeless and divinations as well?

Could you please share your experiences with both of the lines? I would be really grateful!

 

[diamanda]

The way I see it, in 41.5 someone 'poor' gets lucky to receive a lot.
While in 42.2 someone who already has a lot gets lucky to receive even more.

 

[nAstWr]

I see what you mean diamanda because line 2 belongs to hex 42 increase and line 5 belongs to hex 41 decrease. I have seen that some give the titles of hex 42 as Help from Above (you have a lot and you will gain more as you mention) and hex 41 as Sacrifice (Do you need to sacrifice sth in order to gain what you want? hmm I have never thought this way before).
As 42.2 mentions "The king presents him before God." It's the greatest honor to be presented in front of the God. I can't even imagine it. It feels like: "you are in front of the God, God hears you so ask and you will receive supreme good fortune."
So I believe this is the most auspicious line of iching.

 

[diamanda]

Actually the translation "The king presents him before God" is not very accurate.
The king doesn't present a person/him to god/emperor, but an offering/gift of some sort.

In 41.5 the querent has very little already, so they need to keep the windfall.
But in 42.2 a rich person gets a windfall. So when a "king" receives more, they'd better offer something as a gift to the god(s)/emperor. The "king" can afford to do that because he already has plenty.

 

[bradford]

You may not have noticed that the Zhi Gua in both lines is 61.
This suggests that these are going to be questions of point of view or perspective.
The gift is still a loss in 41, as they are destroyed to be useful. But it's a good loss,
The burden of the gift is greater in 42
Diamanda is right about the bad translation of "presenting him."
The word is xiang, offerings or sacrifices

 

[nAstWr]

Yes of course I have noticed hex 61 bradford.
The gift is still a loss in 41? I have seen line 41.5 as really sth good is happening. Usually, I get what I ask. But I have no experiences with line 42.2. So it is much more auspicious than 41.5, right?
diamanda you mention about line 42.2 that a rich person receives even more. I have received 4 times the answer 42.2 to 61 the last month (I am suprised what yi is trying to tell me. All the answers was about my ex). I think it doesn't show that I am literally rich like a king but the truth is that I believe in god and I pray. Hmm prayers could me the offering to God.
So, could line 42.2 means that if you offer to God you will have whatever you ask?

 

[diamanda]

So, could line 42.2 means that if you offer to God you will have whatever you ask?

No, line 42.2 shows the opposite. Someone who already has all they want, then offers to god.

Since you believe in god, you should already know that god is not a merchant.
Offering to god (prayer or whatever) doesn't guarantee god will do it.

The 42.2 that you keep receiving might refer to your ex.
Maybe he's a lucky guy who recently received even more.

 

[nAstWr]

"Someone who already has all they want, then offers to god.." No I can't see that to apply to me or to my ex. Absolutely the opposite.

I was thinking maybe line 42.2 is an advice to someone who are expecting something good to happen or a confirmation that it will happen. You have to offer sth so as to have whatever you would like?

A friend of mine has this line once. She was really in a bad economic situation without a job and a home to stay. Really desperate she asked if she will find a job soon. She received the answer 42.2/61 and indeed she had a job and she moved to her home very soon. It was really something unexpected for her.

I have never had this line for me and suddenly yi give me this line for an entirely hopeless situation.

 

[diamanda]

You have to offer sth so as to have whatever you would like?

No. As I said before, this line says first you get what you want, and then you offer.
The line speaks about good luck, so I really hope it refers to you!

I have seen a jobless acquaintance get a job with 41.5 > 61.
And I have seen a head of department getting richer with 42.2 > 61.
So far I haven't seen a lacking person get lucky with 42.2, but of course I'm not excluding it.

 

[nAstWr]

Thank you for sharing your experiences diamanda!
My friend was really hopeless when she received the line 42.2. No money, no home. She was staying with friends. So she was really poor. So why I am thinking there was help from above!

I really hope the good luck refers to me!

 

[bradford]

The Zhouyi never actually suggests that there is a god, it merely depicts humans in acts of serving higher authority in ritual contexts. Di, the word translated God here, is primarily an honorific for a Shang Dynasty King, and also a revered ancestor, particularly the highest one, named Shang Di. In a non-theistic sense, it can still mean or be translated Divine or Divinity, but this is nothing like the God of the Abrahamic faiths. Also, there is almost certainly a spectrum in cultural beliefs ranging from folk religion, with a great deal of superstition, to the things actually believed by members of the royalty, court, and their consiglieri, and this would naturally drive much of the ritual public behavior of the king. But bear in mind, the Zhouyi was written to counsel the king and the nobility, not the common people.