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Link to some more etymology (hexagram 3)

C

candid

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Interesting web page and discussion. Still, I can?t help but scratch my head after reading it, wondering what has been revealed or gained through the discourse, like so many discourses. It reminds me of four scholars walking around an egg, discussing its meaning and implications. When they are done, they conclude that it is, after all, an egg.

What I enjoyed most is the image itself.



Thanks for sharing it.
 

kevin

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Absolutely Mr C

There seems to be little recognition there as to semantic changes over time.

Also perhaps a lack of perception of understanding of the sequence of the Yi?

Oh, well

But, yes, the image is wonderful -


--K
 
C

candid

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Hi Kev. ltns

Yeah, I don't mean to criticize what anyone had to say about it. It all seemed sensible enough. Unsure of the whole garrison thing, though. Maybe marshalling energy might be a fair comparison? Just that it seemed to go in a big circle, coming back to the image itself, and that seems to speak more about itself than all the discussion of it. I really like the self evidence of that... feels... right.
 

hilary

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Well, of course the assorted commenters are not Yi-people. The garrison idea, though, was explored in full by Harmen, who does know his stuff...

Harmen, is there an English translation of this article available anywhere?
 
C

candid

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Yi people? lol..



Sorry.. couldn?t resist. Image of 23, perhaps?

But really, would a blade of sprouting grass appear differently to a Yi person than to anyone else?
 
H

hmesker

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What matters is not how it appears but what it signifies. And what it signifies can differ per person. Is it a beautiful flower or is it weed? You decide.

HM
 
C

candid

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Hadn't really added layers of subjective value over the image. It?s what?s beneath all that which speaks the tao.

Hilary, nice upgrade, but did we lose post editing options?
 

martin

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It's there Candid, but you have to enable it in your profile (go to 'Edit profile').
 
C

candid

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Harmen, I don't believe we are in disagreement, as stated in your closing comment in the article:

"When used in daily practice, the Yi focuses on what really happens, instead of referring to conceptual layers. This goes along with the concrete imagery which the Yi originally contained. That?s not philosophy, but hard fact."

Interesting that we both used the word ?layers?.
 
H

hmesker

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Hi Candid,

Surely we are not in disagreement, and even if we were, that would be fine also. My view is as subjective as any other, and in this matter not opposing yours. And if I say 'what matters' I of course should have said 'what I feel that matters'. After all, what do I know? It is always 10 times less than what I do know. All I can say, let's be candid. No pun intended.

Best wishes,

Harmen.
 

lightofdarkness

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Look at it from the universal perspective - namely if the I Ching reveals 'all there is' then it can include itself in that revelation - and the XOR process allows for that where we find the full descriptions of the expression of a hexagram supplied through links to all of the others.

As such, the skeletal form of 03, derived by XOR-ing it with 27, the archetypal representitive of 'skeletal' form, is described by analogy to 20 (passive attraction, motivation, setting an example, being an example etc) - when one 'sprouts', gets through difficult birth so it can act to motivate the others to 'try harder' etc etc.

LOCAL distinctions will then colour that universal expression through use of labels.

For the full list for 03 see the line position section in http://www.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/x010001.html

Chris.
 
C

candid

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Chris says (on his site) as one definition: "establish a military camp".

Harmen (or Brad, LiSe, or anyone), is there any thing else you can add to this garrison idea from original text?
 
H

hmesker

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Well, erm, no. This is it, actually. For now, that is. What would you like to see?

HM
 

heylise

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ZHUN1 : to sprout, difficult, obstacle, hard and stingy. TUN2: pair of shoulder blades, one of a pair. Greatly, humble, perfect, generous, well-to-do.
TUN2: accumulate, to bring together soldiers, to station (an army), to stockpile, village; visible, to be there.
Interchangeable with chun1: spring, vitality. Later it was also used instead of chun2 (idem + radical silk) ?pure, faultless?, because this character was taboo being an emperor?s name.

It seems it is not certain that it is indeed a picture of a seedling. It might be a picture of a shoulder blade.

In hundun or huntun the second part is tun with the radical water, and then it means ignorant or stupid. The first part, hun, means muddle up or mix up.
I cannot find any connection of tun on its own, without that water radical, with chaos, or it should be that many characters of which is a part, are kind of ummm, see for your self:
With metal it is blunt, with foot: falter, hesitate, with fish: a blowfish.

And then phone connection was closed down and I had to type everything all over again. DARN, chaos after all?

LiSe
 

heylise

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oh, forgot: zhun1 and tun2 are both the character we know in YiJing.
LiSe
 
C

candid

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"TUN2: accumulate, to bring together soldiers, to station (an army), to stockpile, village; visible, to be there. Interchangeable with chun1: spring, vitality."

This seems like gathering energy to make a forceful advance. Not unlike a sprouting blade of grass. Perhaps more organized than chaotic, though, depending on the stage of development, as expressed in the change lines, with the top line pondering surrender. (life's a bitch!) In military terms, from recruitment to an organized assault. I wonder if there's a relationship or continuity with 46?

(note on upgraded program: review of message doesn't permit correction. have to back-button to prior window.)
 

kevin

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Just done a test C

If one changes the edit pane and then posts the new edit text will post, not the preview window.

I can't find a refresh for the preview window...

Is this what you mean?

--K
 
C

candid

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The bottom of my preview window is clipped off, elimitating the (second) preview option. It only allows posting without editing, or backing up to original page to edit.

Also, upon backing up, there are extra digits in my password. Weird. Maybe an additional security feature?
 

kevin

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This is very interesting.

Can anyone tell me when the King Wen sequence was established?

When considering the sequence 'Garrison' makes less easy sense than 'Difficulty at the Beginning'.

So I wonder whether the establishing of the Wen sequence led to a review of this hexagram.

--k

C- Hmm... I now get a 'Preview/Refresh Button' but the bottom of my window is cut off too...
 
C

candid

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Tried it again, and the extra digits in password don't appear now. The preview pane is huge, taking up the space that normally permits a second edit.
 

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