...life can be translucent

Menu

Litigation 51 Thunder

susannah

visitor
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
34
Reaction score
0
Hello everybody
This is my first post and, like a lot of people, I have been loitering for a while, reading old threads and trying to expand by understanding of the Iching by applying all the insights offered. I have deliberately refrained from posting anything of a romantic nature. (You'd all be fed up with me already!)

So, the time has now come for me to seek advice from the community.

I am in dispute with my Local Authority (town council) over the way I was treated when trying to pursue concerns regarding my elder son's education. The next stage of the "litigation" or complaints process is to apply to the Local Government Ombudsman.

Yesterday, I asked if my complaint to the LGO would be successful? ie will I win?
I received 51 Thunder, unchanging.

So something is going to be shocking.
OK. Shocking for whom? Me I guess, since I asked.
Good shocking or bad shocking? Can't really say.

I'm worried that too much time has gone by due to delays on their part initially, and lately I've been delaying because there is so much paperwork to collate. I am concerned about putting my case clearly because this is a closed investigation... it's all about the paperwork and what is written.

Not really feeling any clearer, today I asked;
"So, you told me that the outcome of the LGO complaint will be a shock. A shock in what way? Please clarify. Thank you."

I received 19.4.6>18

Well, yes, I am at cross purposes with the other side, we are in a form of litigation!
It seems to be advising to just be honest and straightforward.
But I'm still not sure if the outcome will actually go in my favour? Looks like a result where we are encouraged to work together. Not really what I had in mind.. I want them to be told off in no uncertain terms and to be made to offer some restitution, an apology (even a financial compensation) for what has happened.
(Not very spiritual! But it really is horrible what has happened and the way I was treated because I asked questions about how things were being done)

Could it be saying that I'll have a hard time getting the LGO to understand the complaint? It's long and complicated that's for sure!
And so that's why I need to have an honest approach?

Thank you for any help you may be able to offer.
Susannah
 

susannah

visitor
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
34
Reaction score
0
Further attempt at self-interpretation

I suppose the last reading could be saying that it will be easier than I think?

I'm not sure how a "positive" first hex like 19 Nobel Calling, can turn into something that sounds as negative as "Corruption".
I have at times felt that it was indeed my calling to uncover the corruption that I saw.
So I am using the premise, obviously, that 18 is the "describing" hex, putting the issues in context.

My original naivete and innocence seems to have turned to cynicism... omg, is it really worth the time to put all these papers together again for a result that will kick me in the teeth because it's obfuscation of the facts (ok, as I see them)...
IS THAT 19>18 ???
My honest attempts to bring clarity will be corrupted? Well, that's already happened.
or is it my sincerity that will lead to working on what has been spoiled with this Ombudsman?
I really am concerned, due to my previous experience, that I won't be heard.

I think, bottom line, I was looking for a kick up the bum from the Iching to say get on with it! Perhaps that was the Thunder!

Interesting that 18 is called "Corruption".
I do feel that I have uncovered corruption in public organisations. I was naive perhaps, 19?, and expected to be treated in an open and honest manner. In fact, there was back covering and closing ranks and slander. And tbh, what else could I have expected from a large organisation that is probably under-funded... haha, no, not following that line of thought. I pay their blooming wages with my taxes!

Funny, seems to be a theme right now of uncovering corruption what with the BBC scandal, Hillsborough being re-opened, politicians expenses scandal a while ago and the Great British Tax Swindle; Starbucks, off-shore companies etc etc

So maybe, I am just operating in the zeitgeist. 19 does feel like it may a higher spiritual dimension. But that 18, as a resulting hex, is worrying me.

Would be nice to have someone to talk to about the Iching readings. There are so many layers.
 
Last edited:

susannah

visitor
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
34
Reaction score
0
Old thread

Have just found this post from esolo
"I once had 19 unchanging to indicate someone in a position of authority and power stepping up the plate and taking charge of something that had gone wrong and needed fixing...which seems to follow from 18, Work on what has been spoiled."
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=3723

If the LGO does behave in this manner it's the answer to my prayers!
 

pocossin

Senior member
Joined
Feb 7, 1970
Messages
4,521
Reaction score
6
Will my complaint to the LGO be successful?
51 unchanging


I think 51 is auspicious in this situation that you will get a fair hearing from the ombudsman. The 'shock' in 51 (imo) is a successful connection with the ancestral spirit, an authority figure. 51 visually is the taotie, the face on the ding of 50.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taotie

Your complaint against the town council isn't clearly stated. If they failed to respond timely to a reasonable request concerning your son's education is one thing. Another, if they have bad manners and disrespected you because disrespect might not show up on paper. So I think you will get some satisfaction but maybe not everything you want.
 

meng

visitor
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
1,257
Reaction score
4
I dunno but I got the same impression as with my own readings once in awhile, that Yi is speaking to me, to my mental and emotional condition, rather than to the urgent feeling question I have, and especially if I am asking for an outcome rather than an objective view of what really is going on.

If this is true in your case, you were wired, high strung, when you asked for this prediction, and Yi spoke to that: don't lose your cool, don't drop the silver spoon and chalice, keep your zen mind now.

19 is a case of overseeing or assuming responsibility, and 18 is fixing what's wrong. That's a picture of exactly what you're working on.

As far as the outcome, I don't think Yi has said peep about it. With some things, you have do do the work first before you know the outcome. That too is within 19. There's a time window to get this done; after that it's a long winter.
 

rodaki

visitor
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
2,176
Reaction score
9
I am in dispute with my Local Authority (town council) over the way I was treated when trying to pursue concerns regarding my elder son's education. The next stage of the "litigation" or complaints process is to apply to the Local Government Ombudsman.

Yesterday, I asked if my complaint to the LGO would be successful? ie will I win?
I received 51 Thunder, unchanging.

hi Susannah

just a quick note from me: another layer of 51's meanings that might be useful here, is that 51 is also the hexagram of the older son (Thunder), as much as it is about the initial form (or stages) of any activity: initiating, creating a spark etc, while 19 is about being protective and caring like a mother is to her young.
This feels to me like your answer still lies within 51 - perhaps not as a 'promised' outcome but a process-oriented kind of answer . .

hope that helps!
 

bradford

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
2,604
Reaction score
49
One of the commonest mistakes here is to oversimplify a reading by running with a hexagram name instead of digging out the many deeper meanings. I suggest making an exercise of setting the word "shocking" aside and seeing what can be done without that.
 

meng

visitor
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
1,257
Reaction score
4
One of the commonest mistakes here is to oversimplify a reading by running with a hexagram name instead of digging out the many deeper meanings. I suggest making an exercise of setting the word "shocking" aside and seeing what can be done without that.
Shocking! :eek:

But really, I wondered why you said the latter part, especially since your own h51 directly uses and infers the word "shock".

But just seeing what can be done without it is an interesting exercise. I first associate the word shock with surprise, sudden game-changer. I don't first associate it with arousal - going with the image of thunder over the earth for that - and this is what you name 51: Arousal. Arousal works for me too, as an aspect of 51.

I like your use of "resounding" thunder. It's not only a state of shock, it's a state of perpetual awakening with each resounding Ahh Ha Ha! Thunder resounds even within our body, we feel it as well as hear it. We smell the ozone change just before it; we engage it, or rather let go of fear so it engages us, or drop everything and run inside to hide... which isn't always a bad idea, lol.
 

bradford

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
2,604
Reaction score
49
But really, I wondered why you said the latter part, especially since your own h51 directly uses and infers the word "shock".
It is about shock, but many more things as well. To fixate on one word is to limit oneself to a small slice of the possible meanings.
51 is also about growing up, maturing, learning to respond to what life throws at us in seasoned ways.
My zen teacher was a big man with big hands. Sometimes right in the middle of a session of zazen he would suddenly clap his hands as loudly as he could. If we were in the right state of mind the sound should just wash right through us with no reaction. If we were drifting it would cause us to jump out of our skin. It was this shocking experience that directed us to the perfect state of readiness, so that we didn't "spill the wine."
 

long yi

visitor
Joined
May 21, 2012
Messages
344
Reaction score
6
19.4.6 is 38 and not 18

出生时间:年 性别:女 起卦方式:直接指定
起卦时间:2012年11月21日12时55分
起卦农历:壬辰年十月初八日午时

神煞:天乙—酉亥 福星—子戌 日禄—巳 羊刃—午 驿马—申 桃花—卯 华盖—戌
干支:壬辰年 辛亥月 丙戌日 甲午时
旬空:午未  寅卯  午未  辰巳


六神  伏神    震宫:震为雷(六冲)
         【本 卦】
青龙       ▅▅ ▅▅ 妻财庚戌土 世
玄武       ▅▅ ▅▅ 官鬼庚申金 驿马 lawyer, judge departing
白虎       ▅▅▅▅▅ 子孙庚午火 children line under day 
滕蛇       ▅▅ ▅▅ 妻财庚辰土 应
勾陈       ▅▅ ▅▅ 兄弟庚寅木 brother line under month 
朱雀       ▅▅▅▅▅ 父母庚子水 evidence
If you handle everything with evidence, you will have a positive outcome, in particular starting Dec 4 2012 to Jan 3 2013
Line 2 the other party tiger wood sits on an empty spot under the month (system of evidence). No chance of winning over you before Feb 4 2013. However, their power is strongest effective Feb 4 to Aril 3 2013.
The other party in line 3 is definitely confronting you in line 6.
Hexagram 51 is 3 pairs of confrontation lines. This means the case will dissolve with time.



占事:
出生时间:年 性别:女 起卦方式:直接指定
起卦时间:2012年11月21日12时55分
起卦农历:壬辰年十月初八日午时

神煞:天乙—酉亥 福星—子戌 日禄—巳 羊刃—午 驿马—申 桃花—卯 华盖—戌
干支:壬辰年 辛亥月 丙戌日 甲午时
旬空:午未  寅卯  午未  辰巳


六神  伏神    坤宫:地泽临  19        艮宫:火泽睽38
         【本 卦】           【变 卦】
青龙       ▅▅ ▅▅ 子孙癸酉金  ×→ ▅▅▅▅▅ 父母己巳火  
玄武       ▅▅ ▅▅ 妻财癸亥水 应   ▅▅ ▅▅ 兄弟己未土  
白虎       ▅▅ ▅▅ 兄弟癸丑土  ×→ ▅▅▅▅▅ 子孙己酉金 世
滕蛇       ▅▅ ▅▅ 兄弟丁丑土     ▅▅ ▅▅ 兄弟丁丑土  
勾陈       ▅▅▅▅▅ 官鬼丁卯木 世   ▅▅▅▅▅ 官鬼丁卯木  
朱雀       ▅▅▅▅▅ 父母丁巳火     ▅▅▅▅▅ 父母丁巳火 应
Line 2 is you. The officer (lawyer/judge) is extremely weak this month. You are afraid to get involved. Since this is yin wood (rabbit), wood is weak in the winter.
You do not have much chance in the winter months. It will take a long time to settle and you are worried about it.

Line 5 is them (female, or money). The other party is very confident that they will do well against you. The line is pig water and produce wood in line 2 (you). Their water produces your wood.
Line 6 is the children line and is also the change line. The other party would like to settle the dispute without involving the judge.

Lien 4 is the brother line. It changes into the children line; Money is involved in this settlement. Since metal is weak in the winter and spring, it means more like causing more funds than receiving to have things settled.

Line 5 pig water (other side) confronts the evidence in line 1 (snake fire). Since snake fire line reappears on line 6 in the change hexagram, money is used to bounce out the evidence.

This is not a big case in the court of law. The deposition and (hearing and answering questions) process is a process to get the lawyers rich. The judge is really not interested.

It is also the argument and not really a lot of facts that determine the outcome of a case, unless to the otherwise you have well written affidavit with proper exhibits to prove your point.

I do not recommend losing sleep over things like this. Get the facts straight and keep your answers simple.

Hexagram 38 means the two parties have different beliefs and values. In 38, the upper trigram is Li (fire) and suppresses the lower trigram Tui (metal). The other party will defeat you. It is best to seek a compromise to avoid adverse outcomes. You do not have the confidence and experience to fight a battle like this.

After I posted this message, I notice that you quote: "I am in dispute with my Local Authority (town council) over the way I was treated when trying to pursue concerns regarding my elder son's education. The next stage of the "litigation" or complaints process is to apply to the Local Government Ombudsman."

This type of dispute is not a real litigation in the court of law. Do not expect any real positive outcome than "please go away, we will give certain things that you wanted." The technique of appeal is very different because government folks do not care at all.
 
Last edited:

ginnie

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
4,342
Reaction score
17
The other party would like to settle the dispute without involving the judge....This type of dispute is not a real litigation in the court of law. Do not expect any real positive outcome than "please go away, we will give certain things that you wanted."
I'm glad Long Yi posted the above, because I was thinking the same thing. The issue is of the nature of an administrative complaint, not a felony or misdemeanor or a matter that would be subject to true litigation in a court of law.

Because of how arduous and time-consuming it would be to bring such a complaint to the attention of the authorities, I would, if I were you, give a lot of thought to exactly what you are asking for -- and know how much effort, time, and money you can afford to put into this.
:)
 

susannah

visitor
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
34
Reaction score
0
Thank you all for your input.
I have some news : )

I lodged the complaint today, coincidentally, 4/12/12 as Long Yi mentioned.
I received a call within an hour...The Ombudsman is not sure if it is within their juristiction/power to investigate. A school was involved, a red herring imo, since my complaint is about the council! (And the bit that does concern the school is being dealt with by another body, Secretary of State for Education).

So I am waiting to see if they will take the case or not.

I asked;
How will my complaint proceed
53 (2) 57

Slowly and only expect small results.
That's fine. Any judgement against this council will help others who makes a (similar) complaint in the future. I think it's worth my time and effort to stand up to corporate/government bullies. The resulting hex does seem to be advising persistence, as long as the ground is well prepared. Be calm, logical and don't scare anyone : )

I promise to up date as the situation unfolds.

ps very embarrassed about recording the wrong reading above. But I do believe in synchronicity, so who knows, I may have written it wrong for a reason!
 
Last edited:

susannah

visitor
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
34
Reaction score
0
Hi all, I promised to update.

The initial judgement of the LGO is that the complaint is out of their jurisdiction.
It feels like a 10 of Swords moment, if anyone tarot. Stabbed in the back!

However, I am allowed to make a response so there is still an opportunity to change their minds.
They have got hold of the wrong end of the stick.. very 18.
I appreciate the advice of the members who have suggested that it's just not worth the effort.
But I'm going to go ahead with the next stage anyway.

I'll let you know when there is a final outcome which won't be too far away now.

Thank you.
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top