Long term plan?

[kdedeaux4]

How would you interpret Hexagram 4, line 5, changing to 59 in terms of a long term plan or goal someone has for another person?

I understand 4 as innocence and Lise describes line 5 in terms of complete openness leading to fast and large learning and development.

Changing to 59/dispersing.....

How would you interpret this in terms of the question asked?

Thank you for your help!

 

[ginnie]

Innocence misdemeanors

Blofeld translation says of 4.5: "Here the Chinese text suggests that we are dealing not with youthful folly but with the innocent misdemeanors of quite small children." That changing to 59 seems to indicate to me that if you really understood the innocence, the gentleness and mildness of the innocent child would gradually melt a heart grown like a solid block of ice. But it's difficult to interpret your answer, since you really haven't said much about the situation.

 

[kdedeaux4]

more info

Thank you so much for your help Barbra!
Actually, this was a reading I recently did where I asked IC if D was ever going to let me go in peace and the response was 17, lines 1 and 4, changing to 8. That response didn't make much sense to me in terms of my question, so I took 8's advice and (re)asked/rephrased it to what are his long term plans regarding me (as in what is he trying to achieve with all of this) and received the above answer.

Blofeld translation says of 4.5: "Here the Chinese text suggests that we are dealing not with youthful folly but with the innocent misdemeanors of quite small children." That changing to 59 seems to indicate to me that if you really understood the innocence, the gentleness and mildness of the innocent child would gradually melt a heart grown like a solid block of ice.

In trying to make sense of this in my situation, I see that his behavior and reactions to much of this could seem very much like a small child, although I'm having big doubts as to the authenticity of his innocence in it all. More as though he is using my innocence to possibly take advantage(just my own pondering here)). I can appreciate the analogy to a heart grown solid like a block of ice to describe him as well... that is an uncannily accurate description of his emotional stance within the situation, although it fluctuates greatly (like a child?). And this makes me wonder if that's what he might be trying to create in me? Is it possible this is saying that is his ultimate goal?

 

[ginnie]

Asking questions from the other person's point of view

You need to ask the question from your own point of view, otherwise the answers become so difficult to interpret.

Sounds like he hopes your youth and innocence will dispel his hard-heartedness, k4.

The Yi often answers by telling you what you most need to know. Going back to hex 17, 17.1 means to go out and communicate more with people of all types.

17.4 was telling you: "Those whom you appear to influence actually have ulterior motives in their allegiance to you. Look beyond the current flattering situation into your original principled aim. Strive to act independently." Another translation adds: "If you make an effort to be completely honest with yourself, no harm will come to you." Your getting hex 8 as the relating hexagram only means that you were asking a question about who you are grouped with or whom you should rely on.

So, he's a flatterer and he's leading you on. You think you're having a good effect on his negative state of mind, but he doesn't care much about you. He's just thinking of himself. He's got you hooked on the way he seems to prize you so highly. Don't be fooled.

Instead of asking about D letting you go, why don't you ask a question more along the lines of what you may expect if you continue in this relationship with D? Why don't you ask what is blocking you from letting him go? Does he actually have you chained to the wall of your apartment, or what? The man is using you. You can be honest with yourself about that. Maybe it doesn't exactly look like that from your point of view, but the Yi knows the truth. You can rely on that.

 

[miakoda]

kdedeaux4:

4.5 can also be interpreted as a call to accept your youthful envelopment--you aren't supposed to know--it's exactly right to be in the dark at this point. Asking about other people's feelings is a minefield: the effectiveness of recognition is removed (because the answer applies to someone else's feelings), so you (usually) can't have the intuitive reaction that comes with the reading (an exception would be when there's a pile of evidence sitting directly in front of you, but you just hadn't seen it). Most times asking about how someone feels is a guessing game of interpretation. It makes sense then that the Yi would say (very gently): you can't know here and if you accept that maybe you shouldn't know, then good will come of it.

In future: Jesed's wonderful questions are very effective:

Please give me a general diagnosis (or an analysis, if you prefer) of the relationship between X and me?
What is X's position towards me?
What is my position with X? (sounds ridiculous, but always informative).
What concrete action should I take in this situation with X?

But, but, but...the I Ching said 4.5 to you, so I tend to think that changes are afoot that you aren't supposed to know about yet...if I were in your situation, I would stop here and wait it out.

Best,

Miakoda

 

[ginnie]

(like a child?) And this makes me wonder if that's what he might be trying to create in me? Is it possible this is saying that is his ultimate goal?

You might have hit the nail right on the head here, k4, with your intuition. He wants you to be the child and he'll be the old grumpy one, the old parental figure, the grown-up one. But you might not really feel okay in the role of the ignoramus, the immature one, the baby.

I like the questions Miakoda posted for you. Why don't you try them and see what turns up?

 

[kdedeaux4]

Thank you

:bows:Thank you Barbra and Miakoda! Both of you have added some interesting insight into these. I really appreciate that
I understand about asking IC regarding another person's feelings. I try to stay clear of that and that was not my intent behind this question. I pretty much know and understand D's feelings. What I was hoping to gain insight into are his goals and motivations regarding me, as in why he's doing this... That is the confounding part of this for me and what I feel is key to understanding and finding resolution for myself... and hopefully helping me to find my way out permanently.
I don't have many questions regarding the relationship itself or his feelings toward me. I believe I do understand to some degree what that's all about. I very much wish I could figure out why he continues on like he does... That is what I was hoping for with this.

However, you have both helped me with some insight into what info these hexagrams and lines are offering in regard to the question I asked. I suppose Miakoda is right... Maybe some things you're just not supposed to know...until you know. That's frustrating to me in this situation, as I could use every possible assistance I could get (b)ut I suppose I just need to try to accept that I may not ever get those answers or understanding and just keep on handling it the best way I know how as each issue and circumstance arises.
Thank you both SO very much for your time and help:bows:

 

[ginnie]

Maybe he was the oldest child in the family and there were younger brothers or sisters. To be the most mature one is obviously the most comfortable role for him to play in interpersonal relationships.

For him to be comfortable, therefore, someone else has to be the baby.

Our personalities really develop differently, depending on birth order. The oldest son, for example, is not the same as the middle son or the youngest son. The oldest child, you must realize, never had a brother or a sister, but related directly to two rather nervous adults who had just had their first child. The oldest child learned to speak from two adults.

The youngest child has a buffer zone of other siblings between herself and her parents, so she tends to not take things as seriously. Oldest children (and only children) tend to be super-responsible and very high achievers in the world of work. They also can push themselves too hard. And so forth. There has been a lot of research into birth order.

Seems to me there can be a variety of ways that men come to be overbearing. It could come about from a stint in the military, for example. It could come about because he is imitating a father who was/is the same way. Boys typically start to follow in their father's footsteps personality-wise during their teenage years.

In addition, he sounds like a man who suffered harshness or disappointments in his life. But the thing is, k4, are you this man's therapist? You so much want to fix him, fix his capacity for feeling happy in this life. For that to work, he has to be willing. If he doesn't see anything about himself that he needs to change, you had better stop thinking about trying to fix him. You will only come to grief and waste your life on this "making my man happy" project, unless he actually asks for your help.

The person you are supposed to be making happy is yourself, k4. And if he's someone who always prefers to blame someone else for his woes, then he will surely end up blaming you, too.

Instead of focusing on him, why don't you ask yourself why you are attracted to this grumpy sort of cold-hearted man?