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yellowknife

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I'm in the process of applying for a writer's grant. It's a competitive award for new/newish writers in my region.

Logically it seems a great thing to apply for. Although there's lots of competition I thought the process of applying would at least make it known to the awarding agency that I'm taking my writing seriously- and stand me in better stead next year or in the future.

52 has come up several times in connection to this (I asked more than once over the last few weeks I think because I knew it was negative and saying don't do it, but I can't figure out why)

Just now asked;
what if I apply?- 54, 2, 4,6 to 27

and if I don't apply- 59 1, 2 to 42.

It's a real test- to go against a logical, seemingly harmless thing and not apply, but the Yi seems to really not be impressed at the whole idea.

The only thing I can think is that, given we're a small region of writers maybe being unsuccessful now, or having an application that's not so strong might cause the agency to remember me as inexperienced.

Whereas if I try again next year when further on, maybe I'll do better- or maybe I'll end up going for something else instead and that'll be much better.

I feel like I'm being told to stay still- but I can't understand why. The deadline for posting it is this afternoon(!) though I could perhaps take it in in person on Monday.

It just seems a logical career thing to apply- but I feel like the I Ching is giving me a message.

Help!
 

pargenton

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Hi,
I agree with you Wolverine, with an answer like 54.2.4.6 and several 52 before, it seems clear Yi thinks it is not such a great idea to apply for this award.

And since you waited for some weeks, I think there must be some doubts you can investigate and clarify to yourself.
Maybe it is not so entirely logical to apply, investigate your doubts.


Peace
Paolo
 

luz

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IMHO, I think you said yourself:

"The only thing I can think is that, given we're a small region of writers maybe being unsuccessful now, or having an application that's not so strong might cause the agency to remember me as inexperienced. "


Maybe that is the reason. From what I understand, you feel you have a slim chance of getting the grant, and you would do it only because it might make you more recognizable in the future. But you also have the doubt that the opposite will happen. So maybe the answer is that you are right to think the latter.
 

dobro p

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"52 has come up several times in connection to this (I asked more than once over the last few weeks I think because I knew it was negative and saying don't do it, but I can't figure out why)

Just now asked;
what if I apply?- 54, 2, 4,6 to 27"

Yeah, this isn't too promising. Subordinate status, powerlessness in a new position, vectored toward serious consideration of what you feed yourself on.

"and if I don't apply- 59 1, 2 to 4"

More promising. If you don't apply, you'll be dispersing the plan, vectored toward increase of some sort.

"It's a real test- to go against a logical, seemingly harmless thing and not apply, but the Yi seems to really not be impressed at the whole idea."

Yup, that seems to sum it up.

"I feel like I'm being told to stay still- but I can't understand why."

That's my impression too. So - you gonna trust the Yi, or you gonna trust your desire?

"It just seems a logical career thing to apply- but I feel like the I Ching is giving me a message."

Yeah, the Yi's giving you a message. Now you have to decide whether to be logical and apply for the thing, or whether to follow the Yi's advice. What I'm most impressed with in this thing is how you keep consulting cuz you're not getting the result you want from the oracle, and how the oracle keeps telling you: "Nah, don't do it right now."
 

yellowknife

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Thanks all for timely replies.

This feels like my biggest leap of faith in the Yi yet- but I'm not going to apply;

Even though what I have to lose isn't obvious, several people may ask me if I have applied because they might expect I would and I encouraged someone else in a similar position to me to apply for similar reasons (of getting future recognition and approval).

I'm going to focus now on questions about how to develop as a writer- which are quite difficult to formulate because I write in several different fields (and for several different reasons).

Because we're a small region, and because I run a project which challenges some of the assumptions about writing in this area (including those of the agency I was applying to...) I am quite conscious of my position as a writer in a social/power network as well as a creative one.

Can't help thinking my mixed feelings about this, and my sometimes difficult position (54?) may affect my reasons for wanting the award.

Did I really want approval within the network? Might that have made me sub ordinate some of my true aims to the dominant values? Maybe I can challenge them but not until I'm developed and secure enough as a writer-hence Keep Still. Hmmm...big questions...
 
C

candid

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Say what?

52 doesn't mean to do nothing. It means to stand firm in your conviction, a settling determination. It operates not from the head but from the gut.

54 enters a new environment and adapts. If you don't win, so what? You're left holding a basket with no fruit. Is that so bad? What of the fun and experience of entering just to do it? You may yet be rewarded at a later time, or at least you may benefit from the experience, even if you don't win.

59-42: Let go of your inhibition and reservations and benefit from the experience.
 

dobro p

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Candid, 52 means to abandon outward-oriented attention and go within. It says nothing about 'going for it'; quite the opposite. Stillness, not acting on ambition.

As for your other takes on the other hexes and lines, they're fine, but you're encouraging W to go for it when the Yi's doing the opposite, I think. That's not just my take on it, that's her take on it as well.

It's always really interesting to me when somebody who knows how to read the Yi starts getting results that run counter to their desires. It's a conflict. The outcome is always instructive. The path to that outcome is a trial.
 
C

candid

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Stillness, Dobro, does not equal no action. It means being fully present in the moment, as an archer before the release, or a calm before the storm. Strength is gathered and centralized. It is not blown around in the wind by unnecessary doubt or fear. It stands firm in itself, in confidence.

Of course I encourage her to go for it. It is obviously her desire, and it is only her self-doubt that is standing in her way. That is the only conflict here. And let's remember 27 if she applies.

Yi is a guide, not a dictator. This a writing grant we are speaking of, not a life/death decision to leap over an abyss, for goodness sake.
 

calumet

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Candid, you're right that stillness doesn't HAVE to mean no action of any kind, as long as the mountains shall stand. But. An archer just before releasing an arrow, the calm before the storm--these are still only for the moment. They are images of power concentrated and poised on the verge of action. That's not true of a mountain, unless we're talking about a volcano.

I'm not picking a nit, here. It's an important point, because the mountain is the central image of 52. I haven't looked at the individual lines, but I can imagine asking about applying for a grant, pulling the hex whose central image is "mountain," and starting to think about being steadfast and enduring, standing (still) for what I believe in. That might be my writing itself, or the worth of applying for grants regardless of the outcome--perhaps just for practice. If the images in 52 are causing Val to think of not applying for the grant, there must be good, internal (to Val) reasons why. Those are worth exploring, and these are what should guide her in making her choice.

Obviously I am basing the above on my belief that the Yi as a random image generator, and that the reader/querent is the true source of The Answer.
 
C

candid

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Calumet, of course I may be wrong. But this is as I see it. If Wolverine has received 52 several times before getting to her later inquiries, that would lead me to consider that she was lacking a firm emotional base for her decision. This places 54 within the contextual field of her self-doubt, not that of rightness or wrongness of submitting her entry into the grant contest. 27 as her relating gua says to me: open your mouth and receive.

But then I don't perceive Yi's answers as always relating directly to the question asked. Sometimes it relates to the premise of the question, and the questioner's mental/emotional framework working behind the question. I believe this to be an example of such. But of course I could be wrong.
 

calumet

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Candid, I'm not really arguing with your interpretation. 52 could indeed lead to the idea that Val should do something. I'm arguing with your choice of images, which I think could be misleading. The stillness of a mountain is very different from the stillness of an archer poised to release an arrow.

And of course you know that I think casting a 52 several times in relation to the same topic is pure happenstance.
 

pagan

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Candid,
Isn't 54 always going to involve some element of shame and embarassment or humiliation?
P,
 
C

candid

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Pagan, that depends on the wisdom and grace of the maiden. No, not always, such as in lines 4 and 5.

Calumet, Kyudo (the way of the bow) is also called 'Standing Zen'. Zen loosely means meditation, of which 52 is an image of.
 

pagan

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Candid,
But in line 5, doesn't the maiden marry beneath her status?
p.
 
C

candid

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Pagan, my assertion here is that Wolverine's 54 spoke more to her uncertainty than to her literal question. If she was settled in 52, the contextual field would have been different, and her answer would have reflected that, I believe.
 
C

candid

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Pagan, aristocracy is not the highest form of grace. That is the lesson of 52.5.
 

heylise

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GEN: Arrogant, stubborn, resist, anger, obstinate, stop, stand still, defiance, haughtily, to glare. In the Mawangdui Yijing: root or base, cause, beginning.

Not that much stillness here.

I'd apply if I were you (if it is not too late)...LiSe
 

heylise

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The stillness of 52 is supposed to be in you, not to make you refrain from action. It is the centeredness of the archer before he shoots, the firm and grounded base of individuality, that which makes you stay who you are in whatever circumstances.

LiSe
 

dobro p

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"Stillness, Dobro, does not equal no action. It means being fully present in the moment, as an archer before the release, or a calm before the storm. Strength is gathered and centralized. It is not blown around in the wind by unnecessary doubt or fear. It stands firm in itself, in confidence."

You still miss my meaning, and you continue to miss the meaning of Hex 52. You talk of 'calm before the storm', but there's nothing of that in Hex 52. Hex 52 is about an orientation of attention, not about preparation for action. Stillness before action is Hex 64, not Hex 52.

Hex 52 is about directing your attention inward, about letting go of attending to outward things. You talk of 'standing firm in itself, in confidence', but if you look at the text for 52, there's no talk of firmness or confidence. But there's loads of talk about stilling yourself and directing attention inward. It's like meditation.

"Yi is a guide, not a dictator."

Yeah, of course, but who said it was a dictator? Wolverine's choice of what to do is her own - nobody's contesting that. But why consult the Yi unless you're willing to listen to what it says? Why consult it if you're just going to go ahead and do what you were thinking of doing in the first place? What for? For a pat on the head? Rubbish. You consult the Yi because you want input which is independent of your conscious viewpoint. If you get a confirmation of your conscious viewpoint, that's great - you proceed. But if you get a reading that challenges your conscious viewpoint, then that's an indication that you should think again. Simple.

You want to support Wolverine in what she's doing? Good. So do I. And I think my reading of Hex 52 and the lines she drew with Hex 54 and Hex 59 is sound. In fact, I think my reading of Hex 52 is more true to the original text than yours. Of *course* you're entitled to your view. But I think it's off the mark.

That's about all I want to say about this one.
 
C

candid

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Ok, Dobro, so you're not a fan of Wilhelm, and so this probably won't mean much to you, but...

52: "...the Yi Jing holds that rest is merely a state of polarity that always posits movement as its complement."

Whatever.
 
C

candid

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"True quiet means keeping still when the time has come to keep still, and going forward when the time has come to go forward. In this way rest and movement are in agreement with the demands of the time, and thus there's light in life.

The hexagram signifies the end and the beginning of all movement."

WB
 
C

candid

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Like when you sit to meditate: it's not a position you expect to spend your life in... it is preparing you for living. A base and a grounding to act from.
 

void

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If something seems logical and i want to do it, even if the Yi seems negative i would now most definately go ahead. I lost too many opportunities holding back where if I'd never consulted I would have gone forward. Problem is you can't be 100% sure what it is saying, and your gut feelings etc desires count for something you know - you are master of your fate, don't hand it passively over to the Yi - I don't think thats what its there for. I am concerned you miss out on doing something important to you just because you interpret your readings as saying not to go ahead. My attitude is if i want to do something enough I'll do it, live out my life and take the consequences. I value the Yi's counsel highly but also my own free will. Besides which there have been times where if I had followed the Yis advice as I understood it I would have lost some very valuable experiences, I feel if you really don't understand an answer do as you will - more often than we think I reckon the Yi tells us make our own choice - its the one great thing about being human
 
J

jeanystar

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Wolverine,
How do you, the questioner, feel about not having applied?
Whether 52 suggests stillness/not applying OR
stillness before applying may be debatable. BUt I think the question of the effect of applying was answered when you got 54.2.4.6.....

The 54.6 implies it might have just been a gesture of "going through the motions" without any real heart in it....and 54.4 says it was advisable to wait for a better opportunity, or a later opportunity...and 54.2 is also about holding back, squinting (one eye) and staying in the shadows for awhile. Being true to yourself, by yourself, for now.

Even though I like how Lise talked about 52 , I still think that by not applying, you didnt make a mistake. Another opportunity will come and you may be glad you waited... remaining still and strong.
 

heylise

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When I get an answer which goes against my desire (or which I do not understand), then I know that my intuition is still not speaking. When I understand the answer, it means my intuition is speaking, and I forget what I desired, and know what to do, regardless of that desire.

LiSe
 

yellowknife

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Wow, I go away for a day and a raging debate erupts in my absence!

There's something I really want to add which might help integrate some of the opposing views here.

Candid said that to apply was "obviously (my) desire".

To be honest, I think it isn't. (Though only I can know that...so I'll explain).

In my original post I refer three times to applying being the "logical" thing to do. I don't talk about feeling I want to...or having intuited that I should. I also then later refer to the opinions of others as a reason for having thought I should- I'm shifting the reason outwards, it's not "in" me.

Jeanystar's words about the lines in 54 speak very strongly to me here;
"staying in the shadows" to be true to myself, waiting for a later opportunity and especially that applying would have been "going through the motions".

That's really what I took from the original throw, and confirmed my underlying feelings. That I'd be putting myself in a position to be "second best", purely to satisfy external requirements of others.

I think my commitment to being a working writer is being proved in my work and actions already, without having to make an empty demonstration of it by applying for a grant I'm not quite ready for, in order to demonstrate to an agency whose values frustrate me that I'm willing to be in their system.

The 54 throw was when my intuition spoke and I knew that not applying was better- despite the "logic" that might have suggested it was harmless.

I'd taken the 52 throws as suggesting that applying for the award wouldn't bring me progress- the consequence would be that I would end up standing still. In the context of my questions I think a centred core would indeed be a good place to act from, but feel that I was clearly phrasing the question as "What would be the results of applying" and the outcome would be a mountain- whereas I'd much prefer a river,(of creativity, flow, inspiration and onward progress) to be the result of applying.

This debate on 52 though has clarified the hexagram for me. In a therapy session recently, I said I find it hard to always contact the desires of my "true" self because I fluctuate and shift so much and have a definite logical/emotional split sometimes. My therapist said if it would help, he'd say "core" if I made a statement in that session which by vehemence/body language/consistency seemed to come from my "core". He said that the core wasn't fixed, unchanging or constant forever but the most "Self" part of myself in a particular moment. (The beingness that one would hope to contact in meditation in other words).

I'd always particularly associated 61 with the state of congruence between inner and outer selves...but if asked for a word on how I felt about 52 might have said "Boring". No wonder I'm not yet adept at contacting an inner core....looking for stillness sometimes might be a good start.

When I first saw the posts confirming my reading I was pleased...then Candid came in and I thought "Oh no!, how do I decide which view is right?"

but of course...the only possible answer..to contact my own core.

So everyone was right!

Thanks all.
 
C

candid

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You stinker!
It's not enough to do the 'right thing' unless you do it for the right reasons - of course!

If there was a grant award for diplomacy, you'd be a shoe-in.
 

yellowknife

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I just thought I would ad an update to this thread.

I stayed glad that I didn't apply for the grant, and then a few months later was encouraged by a local arts officer to apply for a different grant, worth more money. Also, rather than a competitive application, it involved submitting a proposal of work I wanted to do which was then put before a committee. That helped me focus on my writing goals and aims and was a good process in itself.

I was awarded the grant, which was worth 2 or 3 times what the other one would have been.

Re. the 59 1,2 to 42 reading, I'd particularly take that to be increase after dissolution...being given support which leads to increase after dissolution. It resonates for me with the grant I have ended up getting- because part of the basis for applying was that I was leaving my day job (dissolution) and getting partial support to enable me to work as a professional writer.

Having said that, if I had applied for the other grant back in January and NOT got it, I might have eventually ended up applying for the one I did get anyway (though may have questioned my likelihood of getting it). If I had applied and got it then I don't think I would have applied for the more valuable one I now have because I might have felt I already had one lot of support and recognition in the year.

Who knows though. A couple of weeks after I asked the question I received an unexpectecd offer of publication for my poems which was also very instrumental in my getting the grant I've just received, and came in just too late to have been of benefit in applying for the original grant.

On the whole I'm glad I went with what I took to be the I Ching's advice here.
 

cal val

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Wolverine...

I've got goosebumps all over from your wonderful news. CONGRATULATIONS! I am soooo happy for you!

Love,

Val
 
P

peace

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Wow - good for you.
In the end, I take what the I Ching says if it feels right - whether I like it or not, I move in that direction.

Your answer 52 - gave you time to think.
I wasn't around during the time this original discussion took place - but, I have to say, I am now totally confused about 52!

Seems 59 - 42 was right on.

Good for you,
Rosalie
 

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