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Love - a prize?

em ching

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Hello,

I am just wondering about the issue of tactics in love. For example, the female playing coy, the male chasing, because the female has more to lose if she doesn't secure the male and he scarpers when she's pregnant... Which may still be active in more adaptible females (?) Or are we more than animals and love and respect does exist, aside from selfishly? Or do men get bored easily? (I don't mean to sound sexist in this thread but I am a woman so what can I do?)

Basically I am always nice, I think, in relationships. I don't consciously play the game, but maybe I should!! I do see in myself, that in the past I have tended to like a person more the less interested they seem in me... although not strictly... And I feel when I properly like someone, I like them more the more attention they give me! So maybe it's all a myth... I am currently sort of seeing someone, long-distance; friendly communication and reciprocal so far, but I do feel like I'm usually the one waiting around for him, ie. he seems more in the driving seat. Is this because I'm not playing the game? I do think he's more busy than I am though, so I'm counting the days more than he is... My mother says I should play it cooler... like he seems to be... but I have seem to have more faith than that (strange considering my experiences...)

What I'm trying to get at is, as long as you're not overly/weirdly/desperately keen, friendly encouragement wouldn't put someone off who really likes you? After all, they say love is blind. So maybe someone will like you, fundamentally, almost regardless of how hot or cool you play it? Or am I being naive?

I asked:

Is love a game?
Hex 18

Seems to suggest treating it as such, could cause rot. And my mum has never been lucky in love, is still single, but she has had experience and in the past when she's advised me to play it cooler, she has been right... (but I'm too nice/can't help myself! I like to communicate/share... and treat guys as friends rather than potential prizes...)

What can you tell me about 'treat 'em mean keep 'em keen'?
Hex 28.5 > 32

It's ok but then the relationship would lack gusto? You may get the man, but it wouldn't be based on truth, but the appearance of flowers grown from something dead/old becuase you weren't yourself????

What can you tell me about 'real' love:
46.2,3 > 2

I like this I think. Give (to a degree, what you have, naturally...) without being afraid of not receiving (?) (46.2) and have faith (line 3) but also don't expect too much (line 3). Don't be quite so scared, be natural. Follow the signs (hex 2). I have in the past, and perhaps even again now a bit, denied negative signs becuase I've so wanted things to work out... but I don't think I'm pushing him in this relationship so far, but maybe I am in my predictable friendliness? Will he get bored!? Or does he like being respected?... hmmm... Also I know there is the difference between men and women's brains (i.e. men are less inlcined to communicate unless the girl is in front of their noses...)

Any thoughts and interpretations would be most welcome on this most confusing of subjects :duh:

:bows:
 

arabella

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Hello,

I am just wondering about the issue of tactics in love. For example, the female playing coy, the male chasing, because the female has more to lose if she doesn't secure the male and he scarpers when she's pregnant... Which may still be active in more adaptible females (?) Or are we more than animals and love and respect does exist, aside from selfishly? Or do men get bored easily? (I don't mean to sound sexist in this thread but I am a woman so what can I do?)

Basically I am always nice, I think, in relationships. I don't consciously play the game, but maybe I should!! I do see in myself, that in the past I have tended to like a person more the less interested they seem in me... although not strictly... And I feel when I properly like someone, I like them more the more attention they give me! So maybe it's all a myth... I am currently sort of seeing someone, long-distance; friendly communication and reciprocal so far, but I do feel like I'm usually the one waiting around for him, ie. he seems more in the driving seat. Is this because I'm not playing the game? I do think he's more busy than I am though, so I'm counting the days more than he is... My mother says I should play it cooler... like he seems to be... but I have seem to have more faith than that (strange considering my experiences...)

What I'm trying to get at is, as long as you're not overly/weirdly/desperately keen, friendly encouragement wouldn't put someone off who really likes you? After all, they say love is blind. So maybe someone will like you, fundamentally, almost regardless of how hot or cool you play it? Or am I being naive?

I asked:

Is love a game?
Hex 18

Seems to suggest treating it as such, could cause rot. And my mum has never been lucky in love, is still single, but she has had experience and in the past when she's advised me to play it cooler, she has been right... (but I'm too nice/can't help myself! I like to communicate/share... and treat guys as friends rather than potential prizes...)

What can you tell me about 'treat 'em mean keep 'em keen'?
Hex 28.5 > 32

It's ok but then the relationship would lack gusto? You may get the man, but it wouldn't be based on truth, but the appearance of flowers grown from something dead/old becuase you weren't yourself????

What can you tell me about 'real' love:
46.2,3 > 2

I like this I think. Give (to a degree, what you have, naturally...) without being afraid of not receiving (?) (46.2) and have faith (line 3) but also don't expect too much (line 3). Don't be quite so scared, be natural. Follow the signs (hex 2). I have in the past, and perhaps even again now a bit, denied negative signs becuase I've so wanted things to work out... but I don't think I'm pushing him in this relationship so far, but maybe I am in my predictable friendliness? Will he get bored!? Or does he like being respected?... hmmm... Also I know there is the difference between men and women's brains (i.e. men are less inlcined to communicate unless the girl is in front of their noses...)

Any thoughts and interpretations would be most welcome on this most confusing of subjects :duh:

:bows:

Dear Em, I think the key in a man-woman relationship is that both are wholly themselves before they try to connect with someone else. If you "need" the relationship, either you will devour it -- or it will devour you. You have to be comfortable, confident, and happy within you first. You need to be dispassionate and satisfied when you look at what this guy offers and what you can offer. And you have to be sure that you have something substantial to offer -- and that he does too. People may see relationships as "filling" some "flat spot" they have and if they both lean in a fill those needs -- voila! -- it all works. This is a flaw in thinking. They both need to be "natural" or complete as individuals and present that. They should be free of that sense of "you must fulfill this part of my life" and simply notice whether their expectations - healthy ones -- are met by this person or not.

And I struggle with this all the time myself. It's not that simple. And you can only find this and hang onto it if you are more or less spiritually developed and so is your partner -- or potential partner. Of course that's an ideal, something to reach for. But it's not a manipulation or trying to get a response or reaction from somebody by treating him this or that way. It's a mature expectation or somebody who could become a life partner -- and that's in both directions. Rather than going after this blind, why don't you talk to him and find out what his expectations are in a relationship? If you're looking for a marriage partner at this point in life, say so. My own experience says that, if you don't have similar expectations at all then you both are in a blind alley headed toward an impossiblity. I don't think there's a thing wrong with being clear and adult. At a certain age, dating is generally for one purpose -- and that's to find a mate. Why spend your time on anything else? In many ways we all know that both socially and scientifically and spiritually, we get what we expect. Hex 46.2.3: Hex 2. :hug:
 

em ching

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Dear Em, I think the key in a man-woman relationship is that both are wholly themselves before they try to connect with someone else. If you "need" the relationship, either you will devour it -- or it will devour you. You have to be comfortable, confident, and happy within you first. You need to be dispassionate and satisfied when you look at what this guy offers and what you can offer.

I really like what you had to say there. But unfortunately at present, I do seem to be at a place where hearing from him makes me happy, not hearing makes me immediately anxious, depressed and a feeling of hopelessness which makes me very unproductive! So I realise I am dependent on him, which I know is BAD and not mature!!

Well, I have been myself with him. I haven't played the game, really... well not consciously... We've known each other for a while though, and he has been forthcoming but in spits and spurts... but I think he is busier than I am (I think).

So if he does cool off now, I guess the next boy to come along, pity his soul :mischief:
But I think maybe we have moved on to the stage where there is trust (actually no, I don't trust him, but at least we've kind of got quite deep-ish, I think...) so, as reflected by the readings, perhaps my giving has been appropriate... but I really don't know. I am waiting on him at the moment after all :rolleyes: Oh well....

Thank you for your wisdom :)
 
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em ching

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Thanks elias!

Completely addressed my issue! (possibly wish I'd read it sooner though :)

Well I hope we're at the stage where playing hard to get isn't necessary any more. But I may very well be wrong and this Another lesson learnt. I think the concept of 'playing the game' needs to be Hammered into my head...

But it definitely makes sense. I like how the study recognises that playing hard to get doesn't in reality make you like the person more, it just makes you think about them more. As an enigma. A puzzle.

Doh! I wish I'd been more of a puzzle...

We'll see...

There is obviously something in it though... at least in the early stages... and I have no idea where I am, stage-wise, with the boy in question really...

:bows:
 
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em ching

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Hello,

Sort of a follow-up. I have heard from him, all is well :)rolleyes:) but now I want to keep this nice feeling, but at the same time I want to be able to follow my natural inclination to communicate back, in a balanced way but still, follow my inclination. But I think its too soon considering he's kept me waiting a bit. I feel now I should play the 'keep him guessing' game (only for a relatively short time mind you! As we have known each other a while and I don't want to be silly about it). But anyway I have just stopped myself making an albeit small move towards him.

Basically now I don't know how to play it, or even if I should play it at all, but I have been hurt in the past, perhaps in part due to this naivety about 'tactics' etc. (though I do think when someone likes you, they like you regardless of how you 'play it', but may have a higher interest in you ie. think about you more, if you are mysterious (as the studies above say). And we are still in the early stages of things, so it might pay off... not that I'm going to leave him hanging or anything.

The I ching answered this slightly confused state with:

24.3,5 > 63

24.3> illustrating my indecision and inability to follow my instincts for fear of rejection? Often, not just in love, I don't follow a positive impulse out of fear it is wrong somehow, and then the moment's gone. So in that way, I lose myself, or the opportunity to freely express myself to the world! But as it says 'no blame' perhaps in this case my hesitation is understandable... Holding back is better than giving sometimes, when the balance needs to be redressed a little as it may in this case?

24.5> Hmm... what is my fault in this case? My insecurity? Not letting tao? (I definitely resist the flow because I don't trust my judgement, so end up being impulsive to redress the balance when it's too late and out of kilter wiith the moment which leads to trouble!)

Argh, Well I won't take action now, as I almost did but then stopped myself. Will return to myself... Perhaps Yi was saying this is what you must do now, but it's because there's still issues you need to work through before you can behave positively and freely, and above all naturally...

And hex 63 - not too sure? Does it mean move on from the issue for now? That I know what I must do, it's just taking a few goes before I have my epiphany? Or that I need to be aware that success has to be made and remade, but for now I'm not strong enough to act so I am returning to myself??

Any ideas on this reading would be great,

:)
 

arabella

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Ever since I first read your original post it has stuck with me that you are waiting, he is busy -- on a constant basis. This is the crux of something wrong in my mind. Why aren't you busy? Why aren't you building your own life and essence? If you don't have those things in place, what basis do you have for knowing where a relationship with anyone else fits? And what do you have to offer a guy? I mean, if you were together and he's presumably going to continue with at least some of his current occupations -- what are you going to do, hang on his every word? Sit and look at him? Of course not, you're STILL going to be questioning what's wrong and why you don't have the occupations and interests yourself that he does.

This, to me, is hex 24,3. Where is your essence? What are you doing for yourself? So far as the follow-up line 24.5 -- It is your "fault" that this is a problem. But, more than that, don't blame him for wanting to be a whole person and thinking you've got other things going on as well. This is what both of you should be doing. I mean, if he is excessive, doesn't give you the time of day, pays little attention and isn't loving as he should be -- then it's not a thing and he's not a partner. It's not going to work at all. But both of you should be in balance with your own life versus a combined life. And that is your work, so far as I can see, to complete this cycle in your life [hex 63] and develop yourself to a position as a whole person who feels perfectly OK on her own, and is looking for somebody else who is the same. Otherwise, we have, potentially, you looking for fulfillment from a man when you don't know what fulfillment feels like. Initially, that's something you have to teach yourself, which is what I think the lines are telling you.

This isn't "playing hard to get" -- it's real! What I'm describing is a self-motivated person who doesn't sit and wait for anybody. It may LOOK like someone playing hard to get but, actually it's somebody who IS hard to get because she is busy, happy, interested and interesting and very much in demand. It's the flip side of needy, waiting and trying to figure out what game to play. You don't need that; you're far too smart and capable of far more.:hug:
 

em ching

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This, to me, is hex 24,3. Where is your essence? What are you doing for yourself? So far as the follow-up line 24.5 -- It is your "fault" that this is a problem. But, more than that, don't blame him for wanting to be a whole person and thinking you've got other things going on as well. This is what both of you should be doing. I mean, if he is excessive, doesn't give you the time of day, pays little attention and isn't loving as he should be -- then it's not a thing and he's not a partner. It's not going to work at all. But both of you should be in balance with your own life versus a combined life. And that is your work, so far as I can see, to complete this cycle in your life [hex 63] and develop yourself to a position as a whole person who feels perfectly OK on her own, and is looking for somebody else who is the same. Otherwise, we have, potentially, you looking for fulfillment from a man when you don't know what fulfillment feels like. Initially, that's something you have to teach yourself, which is what I think the lines are telling you.

This isn't "playing hard to get" -- it's real! What I'm describing is a self-motivated person who doesn't sit and wait for anybody. It may LOOK like someone playing hard to get but, actually it's somebody who IS hard to get because she is busy, happy, interested and interesting and very much in demand. It's the flip side of needy, waiting and trying to figure out what game to play. You don't need that; you're far too smart and capable of far more.:hug:

Thanks Arabella. Strong words. I like what you say. Especially in the last two paragraphs quoted above.

Well, I'm not quite that sad. I am keeping busy, but I work from home and haven't had much of it of late, and I find I am far more motivated to do and enjoy things, when I feel confident about him. I have a couple of classes, but besides that I hardly leave the house. Also I am at home with my parents at the moment, and have absolutely zilch social life. Nothing. Which is a contrast to him... which possibly makes me over-keen to communicate with him...

But that's no excuse for my feelings being dictated by him the way they have been of late :rolleyes: but I guess I'm only human and no man is an island.. and as I have not much of a social life as I said, there's a big gap to fill and few distractions to soften the blow if he doesn't... But I must smarten up here. And remember that things will be speeding up for me soon - both socially and work wise - so then it'll be a whole different condundrum in our perpetually long-distance relationship :) Tricky....

Thank you :hug:
 

arabella

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Thanks Arabella. Strong words. I like what you say. Especially in the last two paragraphs quoted above.

Well, I'm not quite that sad. I am keeping busy, but I work from home and haven't had much of it of late, and I find I am far more motivated to do and enjoy things, when I feel confident about him. I have a couple of classes, but besides that I hardly leave the house. Also I am at home with my parents at the moment, and have absolutely zilch social life. Nothing. Which is a contrast to him... which possibly makes me over-keen to communicate with him...

But that's no excuse for my feelings being dictated by him the way they have been of late :rolleyes: but I guess I'm only human and no man is an island.. and as I have not much of a social life as I said, there's a big gap to fill and few distractions to soften the blow if he doesn't... But I must smarten up here. And remember that things will be speeding up for me soon - both socially and work wise - so then it'll be a whole different condundrum in our perpetually long-distance relationship :) Tricky....

Thank you :hug:

I'm pleased to know that things will soon pick up for you Em. It's tough living with parents, one of my kids just graduated Uni and is home now starting a research grant, ill besides, feeling like utter crap, just broke up with her man -- who's several countries away. We're basically talking about the same things I'm discussing here with you. A low-down situation to be in. But you're young and bright and on the ball and it won't be forever. I tell her -- just don't make any decisions or push too hard while you're feeling low. Give it a month or two [easy to say whe you're my age!] and evaluate again where you stand. It's hard being practical and not trying anything at all when you're staring at the wall wondering how to get your life jump-started. We've all been in the spot you're in. You've got the right idea -- this too shall pass -- and the next chapter will be you in a busier life with more on your side and where you feel stronger about taking a stand for your own priorities rather than somebody else's. :hug:
 

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