Luminosity is why he doesn't love me?!?

[ruschel]

Hello everyone! I have just recently began a relationship with the I Ching, and have gained so much from it's insight and your website. I'm sorry to ask for help before being able to contribute anything, but this reading really stumped me.

I'm in complicated relationship with a man (why are they always complicated lol). He gives me mixed messages, runs hot and cold, ranges from kindness to cruelty. I would have let this relationship go, except he is in a very desperate place in his life and I can't abandon him in good conscience. So i went to the Yi to explore his feelings for me.

What does he feel for me? 18.4 > 50

Does he feel an attraction for me? 32.2.5 >31

Why doesn't he love me? 30

I was going to struggle on on my own, but he doesn't love me because of luminosity?

HELP!

Thanks to all you darling people -

ruschel

P.S. Brutal truth is ok. I'm pretty tough and prefer knowing what I'm dealing with. So please, don't hold back on your insights!

 

[em ching]

Hi Ruschel,

I can relate to your line of questioning here and hope I can be of use (to your frame of mind..)

What does he feel for me? 18.4 > 50

I think that suggests he has problems, perhaps father/parental issues, rooted in the past which he is 'tolerating' ie he's allowing whatever bitterness, anger or cynicism this has left in him, affect his relationships..
Or it could be saying that he is the masculine energy that has spoiled your relation, and that it is your responsibility not to let him continue treating you disrespectfully Regardless of his desperate situation, so that his rude behaviour can be nipped in the bid, lest it cause you or other women in the future, further pain...

Does he feel an attraction for me? 32.2.5 >31

Simply I think this says yes, there is an enduring attraction, but, on the negative side, hex 31 is about an attraction that isn't going deeper, ie commitment, 'love'.. rather it's more physical
32. 2>suggests he's restraining the amount of care he shows you (evidently) so perhaps you mean more to him than he's letting on...
32.5> Rather the most sexist line in the Wilhelm translation!! "A woman should follow a man her whole life through...but a man should be guided solely by his duty..."
Pah! maybe that applied at some time, but not nowadays! But in relation to the Q, I'd sat it could mean he is keeping his options open, or that he (arrogantly) loves himself more... I have read that hex 32 relates to an unchanging situation, so it could mean that he will always be attracted, but superficially.. but then again..

Why doesn't he love me? 30

Hmmm... Well hex 30 has been said to be about unconditional love, which suggests he does... or then it could be saying he doesn't see your inner light (in relation to the Q) Then again, it could mean that though you burn brightly for him, he can't grasp on to the concept of a proper, committed relationship.. Or maybe that you do inspire him, and he does appreciate your light, but he's so self-absorbed about his own problems, that he doesn't think you also need reassuring and so lets the light go out again, time and time again, like a firework... Does that sound right?

Sorry for all the either/ors - I'm not decisive at the best of times let alone when it comes to interpreting readings!

If I were you, I think I'd definitely pull back so that he realises he needs to show you more consideration. By pulling away, he may realise your worth by himself and then respect you more, but then again maybe not.. selfish people can be hopeless cases perhaps, if you fall for them... So perhaps be there for him, but tell him you won't stand for how he's treating you as he's putting you down; risk it because if he leaves you, you'll know he's no good, but if he doesn't, he'll surely treat you better...

(I hope when you say cruelty you don't mean mental abuse? Rather a disregard or do you feel he uses you?)

 

[meng]

P.S. Brutal truth is ok. I'm pretty tough and prefer knowing what I'm dealing with. So please, don't hold back on your insights!

Howdy Ruschel,

Handing you a grain of salt to take with my interpretation.

First, as you may have already read from this forum, many believe the Yi doesn't always answer our direct question, but instead advises us on what we need to know in order to be in the right mental and emotional framework. But that said, let's see how it might fit your questions literally.

What does he feel for me? 18.4 > 50

He feels that things need some fixing to make it right. I'd speculate he may feel exhausted or too weak to deal with it. There's a lack of order and/or discipline somewhere, either in him or in you, or maybe both.

Does he feel an attraction for me? 32.2.5 >31

That looks like a yes, but he has to hold back, or feels he has to hold back. On a longer reach, I'd say he needs to be and feel like a man. Maybe he feels you're too much to handle?

Oh, on

Why doesn't he love me? 30

Shedding light on the reality of your situation requires a clear head. You asked an assumption, because since you asked what he feels for you, you don't know that he doesn't love you.

 

[willowfox]

What does he feel for me? 18.4 > 50 There are feelings of love within him but he has difficulty showing them due to some past problem.

Does he feel an attraction for me? 32.2.5 >31 Yes he does but again he has trouble showing his feelings.

Why doesn't he love me? 30 He is very withdrawn at the moment due to whatever is troubling him, it is making him restless and discontented with life, he seems depressed and therefore is not in the mood for love or socializing.

I sense that your reading is very emotional, and that you are hurting inside.

 

[ruschel]

Thanks

Thank you all so much. ALL of this fits, different aspects of him and different aspects of me. Yes, this has hurt me very much, but I'm old enough now where the hurt became part of the "grain of the wood," instead of devestating me. Does that make any sense?

I see what you mean about making an assumption. Maybe he does have some love for me . . . I think the cruelty he has shown is mostly immaturity, lack of consideration, being very macho (I usually prefer the more sensitive types seen on this site , and being desperate.

I would have been long gone because of his actions, except for some reason I love him unconditionally. Logically stupid but true. And he really is in trouble, lost in job, in some small part due to me. Keeps me linked . . . . I'm afraid to pull back no matter what he does because he seems so alone, abandoned, depressed.

Probably more than you want to know! But as you can see, I have lots of reasons to need your help. Thanks again!

 

[jack12345]

Hi Ruschel.

I'm not an expert but I thought I might be able to help a little bit.

I've also been reading the great information from Hilary's site and
one of the things I've realized is that the question you ask is super important.
Hilary emphasizes this but I kind of didn't pay 100% attention at the time.

Question:Why doesn't he love me?
Before we get down to the hexagram I just want to point out some
things about this question which generate problems.

You're beginning with an assumption.
He doesn't love you because of x. The I Ching would have to respond
with something that you would interpret as being the reason for him not loving
you which the I Ching simply ignores and gives you an answer it thinks
is appropriate I think.

Knowing if he loves you or why he loves you or even why he doesn't love isn't
practical in anyway so I think the the oracle would just respond with
something it wants you to chew on or maybe just something to jut you
out of your current frame of mind.

Hexagram:30
I don't think the I Ching is answering your question.
I think it's just trying to get you into a more positive state of mind here.
I think you might want to look at this translation.
http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/hex_17-32/hex_e_30.htm

I think some Nickelback lyrics might also fit here:


My best friend gave me the best advice
He said each days a gift and not a given right
Leave no stone unturned, leave your fears behind
And try to take the path less traveled by
That first step you take is the longest stride...

If today was your last day and tomorrow was too late
Could you say goodbye to yesterday?
Would you live each moment like your last
Leave old pictures in the past?
Donate every dime you had, if today was your last day?
What if, what if, if today was your last day?

Against the grain should be a way of life
What's worth the price is always worth the fight
Every second counts 'cause there's no second try
So live like you're never living twice
Don't take the free ride in your own life...

If today was your last day
Would you make your mark by mending a broken heart?
You know it's never too late to shoot for the stars
Regardless of who you are

So do whatever it takes
'Cause you can't rewind a moment in this life
Let nothing stand in your way
'Cause the hands of time are never on your side.


I hope that helps.
I have a feeling I should just leave things at that.
Hope you do well!

 

[ruschel]

I do see the folly of my question! And I knew I was exposing myself - my fears, insecurities - when I let you guys know I asked. Thank you for your words, and I completely see what you're saying.

 

[ruschel]

Want you guys to know . . . .

Jack12345, willowfox, ming, em ching,

One of my faults is that I tend to be over-appreciative lol. You all will learn that about me.

But I just had to say thank you for the beauty of your interpretations, and the time and effort. They have had an effect, and it is appreciated.

ruschel

P.S. Jack, I love Nickelback!

 

[uoffl]

Hi!

I've just started on the i ching too! so I'll try to interpret as best as I can . Here goes.

18.4 to 50
I think what's being said is that something must have happened in the past that still causes him to feel guilty, frustrated, somehow unable to untangle those troubled feelings. And maybe he/you, or both of you, are putting those problems on the back burner because it's scary to tackle them. It's hard right? Try to talk about one thing at a time, don't solve it all at once 'cause it'll feel overwhelming. But definitely continuing to avoid the problems will not be good. I know everyone has baggage, past problems that carry into the present, so he probably doesn't know how to express his emotions. You can help him with it.
I don't really know to how to read relating hexagram, but what I think is that hexagram 50 stands for his desire for him and for you to achieve a state in a relationship where everything good in your relationship cherished and adored, like food in the caldron i might be reading this too literally.

32.2.5 to 31
I think it overall sounds like he does, but the fifth line does sound like right now he's too caught up with his own emotions and problems though.

30
I think what it's trying to say is you need to see the situation from a clear perspective to know where you are in his life.

I don't know how much this helps, but I hope you the best!

 

[ruschel]

Another eerily accurate interpretation. The consensus, though, is that he does have feelings for me. It makes trying to be there for him much more palatable.

About a problem in the past he won't talk about - if you only knew how we met . But it's too messy to get into here.

"Cherished and adored" - just those words. Doesn't everyone want that? Is that even possible? I would like to try.

Thanks, uoffl

I will let you guys know how things turn out!

 

[ruschel]

Update

Hello. It's 4:30 a.m. and I can't sleep anymore. I wanted to let all you guys that helped me know what is going on with my situation.

For the past three weeks, I've been loving the "doesn't love me because of luminosity" guy to the best of my abilities. With no response. Now, this guy never talks - the best you get is a reply if he doesn't like something. But I finally realized I was giving away the best of myself - such that it is lol - without going through the stages where people learn to trust each other, where people "earn" the best another person has to give by sharing themselves. I realized I had to stop that, for me.

So I let him know I will still be there for him, but without giving away "the goodies"! I hope to be kind and supportive without giving away my whole heart for free.

Yi gave me 63 as an answer to this. I was happy with that. Hope all of you are doing well too. Until the next problem !

Dawn

 

[proserpine]

ruschel,I agree wth your decision to detach.Good for you
I know you don't want to tell us how you feel responsible for him and how you met, so I can't begin to comment on it.What I'm thinking, though, is--even when we love someone immeasurably, we never are meant to endure abuse.While I realize this is a needy guy, I don't even think he deserves your being there for him as a friend.
Even when we are tortured inside and need desparately for others to love us anyway--it is not good for anyone to be given the idea that it's OK to be a crumb, and take everything good given, with giving little in return.
I understand and sympathize with your feelings more than you know.I have been in many peculiar and outrageous relationships and situations myself.many.
Do not think I am preaching--I am only able to talk because I've been there.
Not because I'm so wise.
When you asked your 1st questions...I immediately thought re: 18 line 4, that the whole nature of the relationship needs to be overhauled before it gets worse. That line describes something that needs to be fixed --fast before there are worse results.
RE: 32 lines 2 and 5: it does refer to enduring and long relationships.
Line *5* is not necessarily to be taken literally, as in.." you need to follow your man"...but is instead asking you to ask yourself--are you going to be a tradtional "wife",and let him take the lead of all in your life and you be the follower, or are you going to lead your own life, (first and foremost anyway), for yourself.
That 32 comes before 31 would seem like it is addressing you as I think--asking you first what you want to make a "constant" in your life.
Also, btw, 31 means an influence that has come along, and we can help it along by remaining open to advances or overtures.
While that might not seem to fit here--I'm wondering if it means to step back and let him be an adult man and come to you *properly*, as a suitor, if he is going to be wiht you at all.
I think as everyone said 30 is not saying he doesn't love you.I think--that you are or were then, sad and becoming despondent.
To me that Hexagram here means that while we never permit incorrect treatment of ourselves, we love who we love,(can't help that) and we can "cling" in our minds and hearts to an image of him/her when they are healthy and at their best.
Pray for him.
Send him good vibes.
That does not mean allow him to take advantage of your kindness though.. it is not good for him, and only teaches him he can get away with it and continue being disrespectful.
You said it best when you said you felt you're giving away the best of yourself...I understand.
And I know you're already setting a good boundary with him.
I'm saying all this, because I believe 63 means that you must keep that boundary going.
Keep going on, and do not 2nd guess yourself if you miss him, or just because he calls sounding remorseful.

 

[ruschel]

Proserpine,

Thank you so much for your response. (I feel kind of silly saying thank you so much, I don't want to appear superficial or like I don't mean it. But I am continually grateful for how kind people are here, and giving to people hurting in all kinds of situations).

I have been hesitant to give details because I basically acted like such an a**. We met through on-line dating, and he lost his job because we had an "encounter" at his place of work. I am way too old for such foolishness, but I had just started feeling better after a depression that lasted years. (Took my job, my career, my financial life. I'm grateful for it now - I was so going the wrong way in life.) But anyway, I was feeling wild and free and joyous and ... was just so obviously stupid!

Plus, I fell in love instantaneously - another brilliant move, no? But the heart has reasons the mind doesn't understand - I just have to learn to hold my heart back with my brain!

So when the situation arose, he was despondent and needed help, I gave everything. The Yi likes this guy, and has helped me persist in this giving by developing motives that are less and less selfish. Finally, the Yi brought me to the place of giving detached kindness without giving myself. A lesson I've been working on for 30 years.

Perserpine, your words are very accurate. I just told him yesterday that, to have anything more between us, he would have to start over as a "suitor." So we'll see what happens; regardless, I'm at peace with that.

But I just started a new thread for help - Giving up Christianity? HELP

Hope I can do something for you guys someday -

Dawn

 

[ruschel]

PS - Sorry I messed up your name! Obviously not too bright

 

[em ching]

Thank you so much for your response. (I feel kind of silly saying thank you so much, I don't want to appear superficial or like I don't mean it. But I am continually grateful for how kind people are here, and giving to people hurting in all kinds of situations).

-----------------------------

... he was despondent and needed help, I gave everything. The Yi likes this guy, and has helped me persist in this giving by developing motives that are less and less selfish. Finally, the Yi brought me to the place of giving detached kindness without giving myself.

Dawn

I can very much relate to both these ideas/ situations you have expressed here

(Also Here Here and three cheers for all at Clarity!)


:bows:

 

[proserpine]

em ching said Here Here and three cheers for all at Clarity!

Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah! hiphip hooray hooray hooray! for Clarity and each and everyone of us!

 

[proserpine]

Dawn, honey, you didn't mess up my name--not really.It is the Roman form of (Greek) Persephone, so you may have known that name, or at least seen it.BTW, just for information, Proserpine is pronounced ProSAIRpinah.
Anyway, don't worry.
I really appreciate your thanks, but please *don't worry* about either not thanking us enough or thanking us too much--we ought to be ourselves here.
(I say as though I can always do the same)LOL.
Anyway, I'm so glad for you that you told Mr.himself that.Good, good good!I agree--I learned a lot from the I Ching even when I didn't know I was thirsty for spirtuality and inner growth--I still found myself following its words.
Oh.Another btw.
I have done things like you described.
I wasn't still single when online dating began, but I was well...inappropriate..many places..and sometimes, it was wonderful fun.
Sometimes---oh no.it was not.You and I know that awful shameful feeling.No more need be said.
But please do not be embarrassed.I am a sister, shot by the same arrow.I am recovered (finally) or maybe better to say..recovering..as it isn't a cure.
I'll go look at your other thread.

 

[ruschel]

Proserpine,

Sister, it WAS fun. I have to admit. Until it hit the fan! About your name - we'll go with your explanation . I did take 5 years of Latin long ago, and it still influences me.

I made an a** of myself again yesterday, by telling it all and the other thread. But ya'll might as well know who I really am. And the Yi is teaching me - trying to lol - to think before I act on the emotion of the moment. This is a gentle place to learn.

Thanks, girlfriend. Hope you are doing well, too.

 

[proserpine]

Thank you sweetie.
Sis, you did not make an ass of yourself.
And if someone thinks so--next thing you hear they will go through the same thing and be eating their words.LOL.
I am also going through stuff.I am ok, but unsettled.
We leave here where we've been staying, for Florida in about 5 days.
We'll be in NYC briefly again.Then off.
We still have nowhere that is *ours*, but can stay with my husband's niece who is much like a daughter to me..
Soon I should have the sale of my fire- ruined house which will get me a little money, and maybe we can move from our niece's, to something of our own.
I am a NYC woman, never lived anywhere else, though I've been several places, but this is by far the worst that has ever happned to me.
I really *am* OK.The fire was in November.
But I am not "settled", have no home of my own.We will soon have my dog again;my cats died of smoke inhalation. (As we are going back to NY together for 2 days, I'm remembering now).
I am happy to chat and we can talk about everything, OK?
Keep me in your prayers if you're ok with that. If I am off-line it's only because I'm riding down to FL.

 

[ruschel]

Proserpine,

Good morning, sweetie. My heart aches for you about your house, your cats, your "traveling." I will definitely keep you in my prayers. Do you guys have everything you need? I am just imagining all the comforts in life - big and small - that are missing after something like a fire?

I know what you mean about being attached to one place. My tiny hometown isn't anything like NYC! (I took off and went to NYC once by myself, for fun, wil tell u about it sometime . But I'm never really home unless I'm here. And my great-aunt left me a house - it needs a lot of work but it's solid, comfortable, mine. Everyone needs their resting place.

I'll tell you about my animals sometime,too - my children. Don't want to talk u to death! You have a lot going on . . . .

Quick update about Mr. Himself. He and I stopped communicating yesterday. And I'm at peace with that. The Yi tells me it's not me, he's exhausted and has things to work out on his own before anything can happen. (I would ask him but he never talks to anyone - very shut down). Yi indicates this relationship is significant, important, for both of our developments. So I will remain loyal, as long as my heart tells me to. And we will both end up with the right person in the end.

Have a good day, P. So happy we have connected! I'm glad you'll be back in the Big Apple, even for a little while . . .

Love,

Dawn

 

[proserpine]

Everything I need?Yes.and No.Need a home.
Speaking of why we're here (in this forum)--the I Ching, my Wilhelm translation given to me in 1972, almost certainly burned.That is not replaceable in terms of sentimental value.
But, I imagine there is a reason for this too.(what I don't know).
Where are you anyway, in your aunt's house?It's a small town?Yes.I understand.You are like me, home needs to be definitely your home, eh?
Mine was old too, built in 1882.Was my mother's.
You can tell me about your animals if you would like.
I would not feel "yakked at"--if I can tell you about mine too.

That's OK that you and he are not talking right now.Strategic retreat.
And accepting whatever happens will be for the best--very good.
Tell me about NY when you were there.