many moving lines

[dobro p]

I've had a new take on multiple changing lines. What if *all* of those changing lines were significant, each and every one? You know, for someone like me, that would be the equivalent of being told: "Well, how much do you really want to know the answer? Cuz this one's gonna take some time, fella."

So if you've only got time for a fast take on moving lines, then don't take this approach. Continue to use the primary hex>related hex paradigm.

But I like that new idea. It really lets you know quickly how sincere you've been with the question lol.

 

[willowfox]

What if *all* of those changing lines were significant, each and every one?

All lines received should be read as they are all part of your "story".

Also, one should make "time" when doing any type of divination, as you know some "things" just can't be rushed. So, always put up a good performance then everyone concerned will feel satisfied at the end.

 

[my_key]

What if *all* of those changing lines were significant, each and every one?

I don't know about you, but the Mona Lisa wouldn't look the same without the smile. For me, all the lines that change are giving you an important part of the picture.

Mike

 

[Trojina]

To see a painting you need a certain distance..get too close and you might see every brush stroke but not the whole picture. The more lines move the more steps back i take. You could go back up close to the picture if you wanna see the brush strokes as long as you remember to step back again to get the whole picture. Doing either one, close up or far away, without the other i guess you may run into danger of missing something, though its my current perception more can be missed if you don't step back..cos then you don't get the overall impression and miss the point. One could say if you just get the impression you lose the detail and the process but mostly the impression is more important than the detail...for me.......but Dobro reading every line isn't a new idea, I think its the way most people already do it

 

[dobro p]

It hasn't been the way I've done it. If a hex has a lot of moving lines, I've simplified things by looking only at the primary and relating hexes. I've wanted quick understanding, in other words. But my new idea is that when you get a lot of moving lines, the subtext for the whole communication is 'this one is going to take you some time to decipher'. I like your analogy of looking at a painting. If I apply it to my 'new' idea about multiple moving lines, then my procedure would be like this: I study the painting from a distance to get the overall picture, then I move up close to check out one of the details; then I move back again to see the big picture and how the detail relates to it; then I move up close to check *another* detail; then I move back again to see the big picture again, but this time keep in mind the two other details and how they both relate to each other and then how they relate to the big picture. Repeat ad illuminatum. But do you see how at each stage, the number of relationships between lines multiplies, with more and more things to consider? That's why it takes so long. It's not just the number of variables involved that you have to process, but you have to make many connections that the Yi doesn't supply - the many, many relationships between the many moving lines.

In many cases, I think you'd probably conclude: "No, I don't want to do all the work required; I think this is a question that I don't really need to know the answer to."

But of course if it *was* a question you wanted the answer to, you'd be driven to take the thing to its completion.

 

[meng]

I like the close up and distant analogy of a painting. There's the danger of missing the forest for trees when it's all close up; looking at fingerprints but not the rest of the body. I'm too curious to let a line go by without consideration. Doesn't mean they all weigh-in the same in my head, but maybe one I don't quite get now will be the one which makes the most sense later. Not every line deals with the present.

 

[my_key]

I like the close up and distant analogy of a painting. There's the danger of missing the forest for trees when it's all close up; looking at fingerprints but not the rest of the body. I'm too curious to let a line go by without consideration. Doesn't mean they all weigh-in the same in my head, but maybe one I don't quite get now will be the one which makes the most sense later. Not every line deals with the present.

Rolf Harris used to do Saturday night shows in UK where part of the entertainment was painting on massively large canvasses with rollers and 6" brushes. His 'catch phrase' during the painting part was " Do you see what it is yet?". It's amazing what he could depict with these broad brush strokes, but to add the finishing touches and the highlights he always used to use a smaller brush. It was normally only when he added the finer stokes and the highlights that you could really see what the subject matter of the painting was.

Meng
When you say 'not every line deals with the present' do you have a process for establishing which does or doesn't come first in the sequence? Or is it only with teh benefit of eagle eyed hindsight that you see the sequencing of thechanging lines?

Mike

 

[meng]

Meng
When you say 'not every line deals with the present' do you have a process for establishing which does or doesn't come first in the sequence? Or is it only with teh benefit of eagle eyed hindsight that you see the sequencing of thechanging lines?

Mike

Hi Mike,

I don't have a strong need for immediate absolute closure concerning certain readings I do for myself. Some readings, sure, the answer is very plain, and often anticipated, more or less. But with many active lines, I weigh them and then keep a watchful eye for lines as they play out, even if they resolve through my own gradual understanding over time. (I'm very dense in some ways.)

Some lines, such as warnings, don't have to play out at all, assuming I heed the advise in a timely manner. Other times, lines of good fortune don't play out because somewhere along the line I failed to recognize and/or execute a favorable opportunity.

Still other times, I'm trying to squeeze blood from a turnip, where the matter isn't very complex at all, except in my own head. In this case many lines can be a real mind f***, and it's better to not play with them too much, 57.3 or 6.

I try to remain open to a reading as it unfolds (if even just in my mind), rather than always trying to resolve it immediately. 64 rather than 63 way of looking at it.

 

[bamboo]

What if every line is changing? I recently had a reading of 10, all lines changing, into 15 of all things. It might seem 10 with all changes would be like a "cat on a hot tin roof" reading.... that cat's got to keep moving and quickly, not rest down on any one line. it seems like a state where one is unnerved and moving fast not to get bitten...or burnt , in the cat image.
then 15 seems to be a place of equinamity, calm, holding it all in balance, or arriving at a place where it is possible you have met your risky challenges and found safe balance place.

this reading also made me think of those workshps where you are taught to walk across hot coals, rapidly, and not get burnt.

It didnt seem right to decipher every line. except as a journey, like one across hot coals, start, be cautious and move smooth, be very cautious at the spot where it could likely cause you to get stuck,and rapidly make it to line 4, safety, but still aware of danger and your readiness forthis; at the top line, you are greeted by ancestors who welcome you for having completed the course,and to look back and respect your courage.

in an all changing lines reading, it seems that the relating hex ismore important somehow, as if the first is such a rapid and complete transition to 15, and 15 the more important focus.

oddly enough, the reading was for someone going back to college after two weeks away, very wired about, and eager to complete an arduous bunch of schoolwork very quicly, lots of stress, and requiring a good deal of fancyfootwork to get it all done, but basically she feels in control, balanced, and will definitely feel humble when she completes it, which she will. The reading seemed to reflect her angst, but also to advise rapid action without pausing to think too much(danger of getting discouraged) and to focus on 15, the final destination: done, back in balance, and gratitude, humility: I made it. proud and humble

 

[heylise]

I go about multiple lines the same way like Meng does. Considering all of them, but just absorbing what I can handle at the moment.

Personally I never reckon with any sequence in time of lines. For me a line-place is a place in the situation right now. Like Bamboo's example: her friend had to work very hard (in "6-fold"). When I get more lines, I know that there is a lot to do. No lines: not much I can of have to do. I got hex.1 once with all lines changing for a situation which was beyond my power. It could have been possible to do it, in hindsight I can see that there were means, but at that moment it was too big. I still regret that.

I love the analogies and descriptions in this thread!

 

[dobro p]

Personally I never reckon with any sequence in time of lines.

That's what occurred to me when I read Mike's question for Meng: "When you say 'not every line deals with the present' do you have a process for establishing which does or doesn't come first in the sequence?"

I thought: yeah, the line that manifests first in his life is probably the one that comes first in the 'sequence' lol. It takes a lot of patience though. And a really stripped down consultation timetable. You can't do this when you're consulting every day.

Or maybe you can. But I can't.

 

[willowfox]

It takes a lot of patience though. You can't do this when you're consulting every day.

Or maybe you can. But I can't.

Reading the lines can be done quickly, if you are prepared to concentrate and can easily be done everyday if they were to occur that often. But why the concern as the chances of having 5/6 lines in a reading is a fairly rare occurrence, I personally have never had an answer with all lines changing, not even 5.

 

[meng]

The hex 50 (all lines changing) to 3 reading, I had last summer, felt like a 50 pound birthday cake that was set before me. No way I could finish that all in one sitting, especially since my question pertained to a broad "way of living" question. It was interesting, as I approached the answer step by step, line by line upwards, each line lasting about a month. The clincher was in knowing that after all that, I'd wind up right back at 3! But that is indeed life.

 

[heylise]

I usually see the relating hex as the big picture of where I am at this moment, or how this situation looks. The primary hex as the things I can do or should know about it. Works great. So it would then not be 50 to 3, but 50 in 3. A 3-time in which the best attitude is 50, and the best actions the ones of the 50-lines.

Everyone has his/her own way to read an answer. The best way is always your 'own' way, the one of your heart.

 

[my_key]

Hi Mike,

I don't have a strong need for immediate absolute closure concerning certain readings I do for myself. Some readings, sure, the answer is very plain, and often anticipated, more or less. But with many active lines, I weigh them and then keep a watchful eye for lines as they play out, even if they resolve through my own gradual understanding over time. (I'm very dense in some ways.)

Some lines, such as warnings, don't have to play out at all, assuming I heed the advise in a timely manner. Other times, lines of good fortune don't play out because somewhere along the line I failed to recognize and/or execute a favorable opportunity.

Still other times, I'm trying to squeeze blood from a turnip, where the matter isn't very complex at all, except in my own head. In this case many lines can be a real mind f***, and it's better to not play with them too much, 57.3 or 6.

I try to remain open to a reading as it unfolds (if even just in my mind), rather than always trying to resolve it immediately. 64 rather than 63 way of looking at it.

This sounds like a similar take to mine, in that at any point there is a likelihood of ranging from getting completely screwed up by the way I react to the potential implications of some lines - paralysis by analysis, through missing the point entirely, to getting it staright away and heeding the wisdom giving.

At some point the lines do play out and it is whether or not I'm smart enough to spot them or the opoortunities that arise that would have taken me down that route. That was why I was interested in whether the lines play out in ascending order sequence. From what you say in your later post that looks to be something that you have experienced at monthly intervals in your 50 to 3 experience. For me i've not always been cute enough to see the moving lines cropping up and it is only when I look back, perhaps from the place of the resultant hex, that I see what I missed. I also find that this tends to be more of a chance of missing the more the number of questions I have on the go at one time.

I think Willowfox is right that in some cases you can read the lines quickly but there are always those where you don't know what you don't know and these have to be allowed time to float to the surface. If they do float to the surface in sequence then it makes the job of seeing them bobbing away on the surface somewhat easier. Even when you are at 2 or 3 changing lines, rather than 5 or 6, it can still be a difficult to spot them coming into ones life, but my feeling was that the change had to come from within first so there would be some sequence of inner to outer ascending order. Maybe this was just wishful thinking and LiSe and Dobro are nearer the mark.

Mike

 

[maremaria]

Very interesting thread with great responses. !!!

Today I toss the coins for a matter concerns me. Not many lines , just three ( for me are many, ). Trying to figure out what the answer is, had to look about the place of each line. I use LiSe’s notes about that.
(quoting from her site)

Line 1 Action, impulses, start or experience something.
Line 2 : Relations, contact with the world, maintaining oneself in contacts, seek or avoid contact
Line 4 : Choice and decision - being versus choosing - bonds and disengagement.

I was amazed because those lines are exactly my question.

 

[heylise]

Maybe this was just wishful thinking and LiSe and Dobro are nearer the mark.Mike

I don't think anyone can be right or wrong about how it "is". It is how you personally believe it is. Or what makes sense to you. It is an oracle, it answers to intuition, hunches, feelings, times, possibilities. Not to anything you can write down and keep. It is the book of changes, about changes. In yourself and outside.

So don't believe me.

 

[my_key]

I don't think anyone can be right or wrong about how it "is". It is how you personally believe it is. Or what makes sense to you. It is an oracle, it answers to intuition, hunches, feelings, times, possibilities. Not to anything you can write down and keep. It is the book of changes, about changes. In yourself and outside.

So don't believe me.

OK I won't

 

[my_key]

I usually see the relating hex as the big picture of where I am at this moment, or how this situation looks. The primary hex as the things I can do or should know about it. Works great. So it would then not be 50 to 3, but 50 in 3. A 3-time in which the best attitude is 50, and the best actions the ones of the 50-lines.

Everyone has his/her own way to read an answer. The best way is always your 'own' way, the one of your heart.

Hi LiSe
This has been turning round in my mind the last few days and it seems to make sense, however it does turn things on their head somewhat. Here's a few musings.....
In the majority of readings I have made I see the primary hex as where you are now, and the moving lines as the choices or steps you could take(free will allowing) to move you from here to a different place. Change is a statement of moving from A to B and the journey in between. To move from A to B there is a starting point, a process that you go through and a finish, a changed state if you will. The causes of the change are a combination of where you start from (primary hex )and the moving lines ( or how you implement them or not) and the effect is the resultant hex - your best case scenario of where you might end up. A very linear type of approach - controlled and contained.

Your method of thinking is sort of saying I'm sitting in a resultant hex pool at the moment , and if I approach the situation in a primary hex sort of way and take on board the following moving line actions or attitudes then I will move from where I am, the situation will change. Where am I going to end up though ? This new place has no name, it's just going to be somewhere different from where I was. This seems a much more fearless and open way to approach the reading. I know where I am, I know what I should know and should do......but I don't know where it's going to end up.

Food for thought indeed. It does show how each person's approach is one that suits them best for how they are now. Interesting !!

Mike

 

[chiahsieh]

I am extremely positive that I know the answer to this question. All lines moving means chaos, rarely happen but it does happen. Chaos means the situation is so chaotic that one must toss the coin again. Very often one receive such reading is because the person who is making the coin toss is not serious enough or focus on the question. Or simply asking a question that does not and will not happen. all lines moving is the only case that one allows to re-toss the coin and ask the exact same question again.

 

[meng]

So I wasted months contemplating 50 with all lines changing for nothing? Funny, it wasn't at all chaotic, quite the contrary, very relaxing and orderly.

I think you've got yourself painted into a tight corner with your methods, Chiahsieh. But if they work for you, and you are happy with the results, I guess that's what matters.

 

[chiahsieh]

I'm not painted myself into a tight corner... I have actual sources to support my saying. First of all, you did not put your actual yi-ching up here. If you did we can all discuss about it. Second, I know you guys hated me for I have an entire different method. Third as I said, you may not phrase your problem correctly, you may thinking something else while asking. I did not put myself into tight corner, I do have real life example I did years ago that I preserve it for study. Also this rule applies to your method as well believe it or not. If you say everything is orderly, but do your reading actually happen as the way you predicted? If you use it as guidance not as prediction, then you can ignore me.

I do not come here to prove I am better, I simply want to share with you guys for many of you cannot read Chinese. It sort of upset me that this board is so vicious toward new ideas which is really not new at all. This is the method you see people use all the time in Asian countries. Again I am not saying using philosophical approach is bad, it is simply more as a guidance instead of tell you what exactly will happen. For certain people, guidance is all they need. I have used everyone's method first year in my learning, it is fairly accurate often sufficient. Yet There are sometimes in life people cannot simply wait. For example I have someone coming in, his father is sick, he needs to find out if his father will get well or not since he cannot attend to his father immediately due to the fact that it takes 1 day to fly back to his country. He is desperate for an exact answer, and i-ching hex meaning will most likely to you to wait. But what I might do for him more is to tell him the approximation date that his father will continue to live, and he may go home and take care of his father in the best of his ability without regret.

Honestly, people play nice...

 

[heylise]

Hi LiSe
This has been turning round in my mind the last few days and it seems to make sense, however it does turn things on their head somewhat. Here's a few musings.....
In the majority of readings I have made I see the primary hex as where you are now, and the moving lines as the choices or steps you could take(free will allowing) to move you from here to a different place.
.....
A very linear type of approach - controlled and contained.

Your method of thinking is sort of saying I'm sitting in a resultant hex pool at the moment , and if I approach the situation in a primary hex sort of way and take on board the following moving line actions or attitudes then I will move from where I am, the situation will change. Where am I going to end up though ? This new place has no name, it's just going to be somewhere different from where I was. This seems a much more fearless and open way to approach the reading. I know where I am, I know what I should know and should do......but I don't know where it's going to end up.

Food for thought indeed. It does show how each person's approach is one that suits them best for how they are now. Interesting !!

Mike

Love your description! I am a bit late with my answer because things have been rather busy around here.
It is very much like I do a reading. I have no need to know where I go. I follow the road which feels like the best one, and I think that is the way to arrive at the best result. My own ideas about the best result are just that, personal ideas, who knows what I will miss if I restrict myself to that.

 

[meng]

I'm not painted myself into a tight corner... I have actual sources to support my saying. First of all, you did not put your actual yi-ching up here. If you did we can all discuss about it. Second, I know you guys hated me for I have an entire different method. Third as I said, you may not phrase your problem correctly, you may thinking something else while asking. I did not put myself into tight corner, I do have real life example I did years ago that I preserve it for study. Also this rule applies to your method as well believe it or not. If you say everything is orderly, but do your reading actually happen as the way you predicted? If you use it as guidance not as prediction, then you can ignore me.

I do not come here to prove I am better, I simply want to share with you guys for many of you cannot read Chinese. It sort of upset me that this board is so vicious toward new ideas which is really not new at all. This is the method you see people use all the time in Asian countries. Again I am not saying using philosophical approach is bad, it is simply more as a guidance instead of tell you what exactly will happen. For certain people, guidance is all they need. I have used everyone's method first year in my learning, it is fairly accurate often sufficient. Yet There are sometimes in life people cannot simply wait. For example I have someone coming in, his father is sick, he needs to find out if his father will get well or not since he cannot attend to his father immediately due to the fact that it takes 1 day to fly back to his country. He is desperate for an exact answer, and i-ching hex meaning will most likely to you to wait. But what I might do for him more is to tell him the approximation date that his father will continue to live, and he may go home and take care of his father in the best of his ability without regret.

Honestly, people play nice...

Dude, lighten up. No one hates you. But when someone comes in waving laws in everyone's face, saying this is the way, I know because someone wrote it down once.. you can expect a little rebuff.

 

[willowfox]

I am extremely positive that I know the answer to this question. All lines moving means chaos, rarely happen but it does happen. Chaos means the situation is so chaotic that one must toss the coin again. Very often one receive such reading is because the person who is making the coin toss is not serious enough or focus on the question. Or simply asking a question that does not and will not happen. all lines moving is the only case that one allows to re-toss the coin and ask the exact same question again.

I have to answer this nonsense, it is my duty to respond.

Where did you study? And what did you study?

As what you have said above is rubbish, and it is not a method used in Asia or anywhere else.

Do you live in Asia, have you ever been there?

 

[willowfox]

ion, then you can ignore me.

This is the method you see people use all the time in Asian countries.

Next time you go to Penang, or KL, or Singapore, or Hong Kong, or Beijing, take a closer look at how they throw the coins and get an answer.

 

[chiahsieh]

Where in Asia. I'm from Taiwan... I've been following a master, he taught me little by little ever since I was 16. I studied I-ching, 紫薇 no ideal what it is in English, and Feng Shui (however I am better in the area of Feng Shui for deceased people not in the actual houses people live in) I did not said above is rubbish...philosophical way is accurate just vague... I am not saying it is completely off the hook, but people tend to use plum flower method and najia more that's all. So it is just not as popular way, but most people who decides to use it as their approach always do learn philosophical way in their beginning of study before they go for others.

 

[chiahsieh]

Well, I guess I'm not used to how western people react since us Asian people tend to be more serious. And you have to agree respecting each other will be a nicer way to communicate isn't it?

Dude, lighten up. No one hates you. But when someone comes in waving laws in everyone's face, saying this is the way, I know because someone wrote it down once.. you can expect a little rebuff.

 

[willowfox]

I worked in Taipei for nearly a year, and I have worked in China, and in Singapore and in Malaysia and in Hong Kong and in Thailand.

So, maybe I don't know about Asian people as I have only lived there, and studied there and worked there.

And believe me I know how rude and arrogant some Asian people can be.

 

[Sparhawk]

I studied I-ching, 紫薇 no ideal what it is in English

Crape-Myrtle?? That's the translation of "ziwei" Is that a Yijing school? Curious...