Mastery Over Fate

[pocossin]

I think he would have done much better had he gotten his hands on a copy of the I Ching

This would make an interesting alternative history. The myth of Oedipus is probably older than King Wen. Inherited family curse and rectifying the house suggest hexagram 18.

 

[cjgait]

On Dates, Names and Imperfections

Taobabe,

On dating of the texts. There are several good books that run through the history of the text of the Zhou Yi and Yi Jing. If you are interested I'm sure those on this thread will share their favorites. For an overall book to give history and background of the text in an approachable way I don't think you can beat Rutt's Zhouyi.

Basically the problem is that you are making assumptions about the extreme antiquity of the text that just aren't there. Don't feel bad, almost every preface of non-academic Chinese Yi Jing's talk about the Yi Jing as the 'oldest book in the world', 'first book of China' etc. But the fact as far as scholars have been able to determine is that there are parts of the Classic of Poetry that are older than the Yi (and other parts contemporary and newer). There are also parts of the Classic of History that may be older, but that book is much more problematic.

The Zhou Yi (the basic judgment and line texts that form the core of the Yi Jing) was written some time in the early Zhou Dynasty. So this is somewhere about 800 - 1100 BCE. Kongzi and Laozi lived in the 6th century BCE, so it was several hundred years after the Zhou Yi texts, but not 2,000 years later. The commentary that forms a large portion of the Yi Jing (the Ten Wings) have several layers, some of them almost as old as the Zhou Yi itself, some probably considerably later than Kongzi.

There is no direct connection between Laozi and the Yi. Kongzi, on the other hand, and his school the Ru (Confucianists), are the authors of the commentaries that eventually were melded with the book.

All this is historical conjecture, attribution, etc. You're free to interpret the book any way you like. Whether you find Laozi resonates with the work or Winnie the Pooh, whatever works for you and aids you in personal development is a positive. Having said that, I find the various attempts in the West to merge Christian concepts and scripture with the book rather trying. The Chinese, starting from the Zhou Dynasty, moved away from the religious concepts of the Shang. The western tradition, IMO, is much closer to that Shang religious approach. The element of the transcendent is missing from Zhou philosophy. A good example is the treatment of the flood. Compare the story of Noah and that of Yu the Great and it will, I think, reveal a lot about the differences between the two great civilizations.

On tempting fate, I understand your usage now, and I would call that challenging fate, perhaps, or swimming upstream or self-cultivation. In the Confucian world view you improve yourself, then you can improve your family; you improve your family, then you can improve your community, etc. It's kind of like on an airliner when they say: Please put your oxygen mask on first before helping others. You have to make sure you can function before you teach others. The standard definition of tempting fate is best revealed by its synonyms:

tempt fate
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: ask for trouble
Synonyms: ask for it, bell the cat, court danger, court disaster, push one's luck, tempt the gods, try one's hand, try one's luck
Roget's 21st Century Thesaurus, Third Edition
Copyright © 2012 by the Philip Lief Group.

On Yin Yang and the balance of the universe, I still maintain that it is the imperfections of reality that keeps the universe spinning. If Yin and Yang are in perfect balance everything stops -- total stasis. But that is not what we perceive. Things keep moving because there is a slight positive spin to everything. Within the cycles of the world there is alternation, so the four seasons progress and Yin and Yang interchange the dominant place. But in the overall, the Cosmos conceived as a whole, Yang dominates ever so slightly, keeping things off balance, and thus in motion. I say this based on a simple and rather subjective finding in my own studies. Some years ago I conducted a study of the judgment and line texts of the Yi and assigned numbers to each one according to the divining tags (things like good fortune, misfortune, no blame, etc.). and other factors. When you put all those numbers together there are just slightly more positive texts than there are negatives (less than 1% difference). In a perfect system of 64 hexagrams you would expect an exact 50/50 split. But no, the sages wrote the texts in such as way that they reflect reality. They reflect reality so perfectly that they even reflect that tiny flaw in the crystal, that little crooked spot in each of the infinity of snowflakes. That is what I mean by the intertia of the universe is based on imperfection.

 

[meng]

I still maintain that it is the imperfections of reality that keeps the universe spinning. If Yin and Yang are in perfect balance everything stops -- total stasis. But that is not what we perceive. Things keep moving because there is a slight positive spin to everything. Within the cycles of the world there is alternation, so the four seasons progress and Yin and Yang interchange the dominant place. But in the overall, the Cosmos conceived as a whole, Yang dominates ever so slightly, keeping things off balance, and thus in motion. I say this based on a simple and rather subjective finding in my own studies. Some years ago I conducted a study of the judgment and line texts of the Yi and assigned numbers to each one according to the divining tags (things like good fortune, misfortune, no blame, etc.). and other factors. When you put all those numbers together there are just slightly more positive texts than there are negatives (less than 1% difference). In a perfect system of 64 hexagrams you would expect an exact 50/50 split. But no, the sages wrote the texts in such as way that they reflect reality. They reflect reality so perfectly that they even reflect that tiny flaw in the crystal, that little crooked spot in each of the infinity of snowflakes. That is what I mean by the intertia of the universe is based on imperfection.

This is what I tried to express earlier. It is the countervailing forces which increase our strength and stamina (resistance training), our mental agility and development. I view the Yijing as a personal trainer. Those, like myself, who have sought its advice for decades, recognize that even trying to follow Yi's advice to the letter does not remove or even promise to reduce adversity, it just shows how these things occur so that we eventually become better equipped to reckon with them and not become overwhelmed by them. Like it or not, adversity is how we grow. The flux between 11 and 12 ensures the coming and going of opposing forces, which in turn keeps life healthy. Even our own body's resistance and immunity are largely based on having been exposed to the disease prior to exposure, in a controlled biological environment.

When I spoke of the Way bumping me off the Way, I wasn't referring to merely occasionally being bumped to the gutter by fate. I was speaking of the kind of thing which happens in 27.5, where the Yi advises rejecting the usual path and seeking instead from the summit, climbing that tall hill which is OFF the path, for nourishment. That's such wise council from any wise teacher. My music teacher used to tell me, practice, practice, practice what I teach you, but when it's time to perform, forget everything I've taught you, and just trust yourself to play well. There are times to follow your own inclination, even if they're sometimes funky.

 

[cjgait]

Book on Ming (fate)

By the way, there is an academic book dedicated in its entirety to the concept of Ming. called The Magnitude of Ming, Command, Allotment, and Fate in Chinese Culture. I picked up a copy some time ago but haven't had a chance to get very far in it.

It's on remainder sale at Amazon, 16 and change rather than 50: http://www.amazon.com/Magnitude-Ming-Command-Allotment-Chinese/dp/B005X4I90Q

 

[rodaki]

. . Here's one of the articles of the book
Multiple Vistas of Ming and Changing Visions of Life in the Works of Tao Qian (link)

(uploaded by Zong-qi Cai)

 

[marybluesky]

Interesting old thread.

I haven't studied the Tao enough. However, given that the I Ching directs us to the path of Tao, I'll not follow its advice if that's not fulfilling to me.
Example: when the I Ching repeatedly invites me not to move while not moving doesn't improve my situation, I follow my heart. Yes- problems may arise when I act, but the stagnation ruins my vitality.