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Meaning of 21.0

E

ewald

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Hexagram 21 to me is about encountering something unexpected that's in the way. Biting on something which one encounters in ones food, which is what lines 3, 4 and 5 are specifically about. In this context, the translation of Yu4 in the hexagram statement with "justice" doesn't make sense to me. Why would justice be administed, by the consultant, when s/he encounters something unexpected? How has something punishable happened?

Heng1 is in this hexagram statement, translated as "success," "harvest," "satisfaction" (which I am currently translating as "effortless"). It doesn't seem like an indication to me that punishment is necessary, on the contrary, things are going smoothly.

Muller's dictionary has as possible translations for Yu4:
# To sue, appeal, litigate, go to court. A trial, a lawsuit.
# A jail, prison.
# To investigate.
# A verdict.

To me "investigation" is making more sense here than "justice." When you encounter something unexpected, you investigate it.
Is there any reason why translating Yu4 as such is incorrect?


Ewald
 

hilary

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I think 'heng' is what you create by biting through, more than your starting point. I agree that the primary meaning of the legal processes in the Judgement is usually investigation: getting to the bottom of something, getting your teeth into a problem...
 
E

ewald

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Hilary, so you mean that 'heng' is indicating here that things are set in motion by the biting through, the getting the teeth into the problem.

Ewald
 
E

ewald

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With 21.0 not being about punishment per se, I'm translating 21.1 and 21.6 differently from usual as well:

21.1
Learning to walk, covering the feet.
Without fault.


21.6
What is there to learn with covered ears?
Misfortune.


Ewald
 

hilary

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Um... but I do think that those two are about stocks and cangue. The cangue suggests that no real 'biting through' to causes will take place, as the ears are blocked.
 
E

ewald

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Perhaps I don't understand it correctly, however I'd expect that "blocked ears" would mean that the ears are covered, so that one is unable to hear.

I did a bit of searching on the web, and I don't think a cangue is covering the ears at all. Some dictionaries (i.e. Wordnet) have:

"an instrument of punishment formerly used in China for petty criminals; consists of a heavy wooden collar enclosing the neck and arms"

So not the ears.
This webpage has a couple of pictures, and none of the cangues really block the ears.

Anyway, I seem to be missing Chinese characters in these lines that mean either "stocks" or "cangue."


Ewald
 
C

candid

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I'm a bit out of my field here with literal translation but will add 2 cents worth.

First, I tend to agree with where Ewald is going with this, but also more in the middle between this and Hilary's perspective. There is an element of the hammer coming down decisively in 21, but I see it as the accusation more than execution. Execution occurs in 55. Line 1 points out the offense in a mild fashion. "Look, son, if you go this route you're gonna get burned." Line 6 indicates the hardening of the mind and heart and so the warning goes unheard, and no correction is made. "Here come da judge!"

What I've personally experienced with line 6 is that there really is no ability to hear. It is beyond obstinate or a bad or incorrect attitude. Hearing simply isn't possible. The person in this position may know in their head that their position is wrong, that their thinkin' is stinkin', but now they can only wait it out to learn the consequence of their actions. It is possible to know but yet not be able to convince yourself. Interesting that line 6 changes to 27. The answer then is not to close up the ears, but to open up the mouth to receive.

I also think that LiSe nails a very important aspect to 21. At times when shear will power is not enough, some form of magic or ritual can penetrate through the senses. The teeth of a shaman can bite through the impossible.
 

lightofdarkness

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From a universal perspective, the basic structure of 21 is described by analogy to 16. 16 covers the use of foresight and planning - all properties essential for problem solving.

In the recursion of the hexagrams from yin/yang, 21 pairs with 51 and reflects the conditional nature that is manifest unconditionally in 51.

Thus the surprise, shock, enlightenment, awareness aspects of 51 are focused in 21 on a particular; by becoming aware of issues at hand we 'problem solve' - the action leads to a particular solution, aka 'enlightenment':

21:

"SHIH HO -
SHIH : bit away, chew; bite persistently and remove; snap at, nibble; reach the essential by removing the unnecessary. The ideogram: mouth and divination, revealing the essential..

HO : close the jaws, bite through, crush between teeth. The ideogram: mouth and conver, jaws fit together as a lid fits a vessel." ERANOS p276

If we look at how 21 'presents' itself to the outside (XOR with 22) then we have a description by analogy to 62. 62 covers issues of unconditional loyalty (imposition of laws etc comes into this)

If we look at 21 from the inside (XOR with 47) we have a description by analogy to 61.

IF we look at 21 in the context of beginnings (XOR with 24) we have a description by analogy to 35 - IOW the focus is to bring something into the light - to 'clarify' or 'reveal' (as Ewald covers in coming across 'something' unexpected) - IOW 21 always 'starts' in this manner, is set off in this manner.

If we look at 21 in the context of mediation, of balancing/harmonising (XOR with 11) so we a description by analogy to 50 - the focus is on to put the 'raw' together, to collect the 'facts' and then 'stew' over them to get the 'finished' product - the 'solution'.

For the other expressions see the linemean section in

http://www.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/x101001.html

these 'qualities' are in-built to the METHOD of recursion and as such source all meanings of 21 through reference to all of the other meanings in the IC hexagrams.

Chris.
 

freemanc

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A nuance of 21 that I'd like to hear your thoughts about, that a working diviner I suppose should see in a flexible way, is the matter of the investigator in prison.

(I seem to have Borges wired rather tightly into my referential base; 21 reminds me of the tales of Don Isidro Parodi, the detective who is stuck in a jail cell.)

The notion that it is the social order that is corrupt, or more abstractly, something about the investigators setting or context that is like a prison.

(I think also of Philip K. Dick's idea of the world without vision as the Black Iron Prison.)

What do y'all think?
 

lienshan

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I saw your discussion and in a german site (hschulte.de) 21 has two explainations; both punishment and marketplace:
(Es ist zu bemerken, da? noch eine andere Deutung besteht. die von der Idee "oben das Licht, d. h. die Sonne, unten die Bewegung" ausgehend das Zeichen auf einen Markt deutet, der unten in Bewegung ist, w?hrend die Sonne oben am Himmel steht" Und zwar handelt es sich um einen E?warenmarkt. Das Fleisch deutet auf E?waren. Gold und Pfeile sind Handelsartikel. Das Verschwinden der Nase bedeutet das Verschwinden des Geruch, d. h. der Betreffende ist nicht habgierig. Das Gift deutet auf die Gefahren des Reichtums usw.)
 
C

candid

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Freeman,

That's an interesting idea I've never considered. A sleuth who is prohibited from getting to the bottom of things. The task is arduous and obstructive (line 4, biting through gristle) and he is rewarded with further evidence. He sinks his teeth into the core (line 5), receives back his authority and freedom, and solves the mystery. Sure beats giving up on the case and spending his years fastened in the wooden cangue!
 
C

candid

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There's a run of new programs on local TV. Psychics, forensic examiners and a mathematician who solve murder mysteries. I wonder if an I Ching diviner detective might be well received? Could call it "Private I".
uhoh.gif
 

hilary

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Approximately translating the above German:
"It's worth noticing that there is yet another meaning, which starts from the idea, 'Light above, ie the sun, movement below', and indicates the symbol of a market, which is in movement below, while the sun stands above in heaven. What's more, this is about a food market. The meat points to foodstuffs. Gold and arrows are items of trade. The disappearance of the nose indicates the disappearance of the sense of smell, ie the person concerned is not greedy. Poison indicates the dangers of riches, and so on."

Ack. Having solemnly translated, I realise this sounds very familiar - and sure enough, it's a footnote from Wilhelm. See Mrs Baynes for a better translation!
 

lienshan

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no.21 is to me in danish: arbejdssejr (workingvictory). Known from soccer. Sometimes good playing isn't good enough; one have to pull up the sleeves etc. Like an ox or a horse one have a "bite" in the mouth. The Chou commentaries to 21 looks "too constructed" to me and change the primary idea of no 21.
 

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