Memorizing the I Ching: 31, Hsien / Influence (Wooing)

[Trojina]

Or people will go with your plans - if they can follow them, but if you are all over the place they won't know what you want and won't be able to keep up with you - only those really close will have that much patience with you. I think this line counsels you to know your own mind - if you don't theres no use expecting others to read it for you or make decisions for you. If you are open and clear about intentions its likley others will be able to support your endeavours - cos they can follow the plot.

 

[rosada]

Oh, I really like that, trojan. Thank you. Do you have any thoughts on it's then becoming 39?

And thanks for the memory aid, Mick. I'll always remember Influence = Mountain inside of Lake now. LOL.

 

[bruce_g]

I've found that W/B's commentary on this line can be taken quite literally. When you deliberately try to influence or woo someone, only that person hears it, and often it isn't trusted, because of the intention behind it. But, when you are open, and act with no deliberate intention, your influence can reach those for whom it is meant to reach, even if you (and they) are unaware of it.

 

[charly]

I think that Hx 31 is very sexual. A mountain inside a lake.

Hi, Mick:

Indeed.

And girl up as ZhouYi wants it.

I think that the H.31 title could be translated as «About the most important», as «Don't lose your head» or as «Both, together... now». also could be «Shock» due to the shocking image of the character 咸 xian2.

In the five lines where xian occurs it could be translated as «Shake that ...» (1).

To lose the head has many to do with sexual relations (2).

In another cord the title of H.31 could be «Lost Head» meaning things like:

The Unconscious (Freud, Jung)
The Double (O.Rank)
The Hero (Frazer)
The It (Groddeck)
The Other Ego (Divito) (3)

also...

The Left Brain, The Brocca Brain, The Dinosaur Brain...
The Emotional Intelligence, The Lateral Thinking,...
The Astral Body...

... in another words: Yourself.

Maybe the advice is: «Take care of yourself, take care of your partner».

Tanks for your attention.

Yours,

Charly


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Say «Shake that thumb!» in 31.1 or «Shake that loin...» in 31.5
(2) Remember «The Panchos» singing: «I am going to lose the head by your love...» / «voy a perder la cabeza por tu amor...» ♫
(3) Willy Divito: «The Another Ego of Dr.Merengue» / «El Otro Yo del Doctor Merengue»

Image from: http://www.historieteca.com.ar/Historietas/drmerengue.htm

 

[Sparhawk]

LOL!! I love Divito and "El Otro Yo del Dr. Merengue"!! That's one comic strip that always made me feel "normal"...

 

[rosada]

0 Nine in the fifth place means:
The influence shows itself in the back of the neck.
No remorse.

The back of the neck is the most rigid part of the body. When the influence shows itself there, the will remains firm and the influence does not lead to confusion. Hence remorse does not enter into consideration here. What takes place in the depths of one's being, in the unconscious, can neither be called forth nor prevented by the conscious mind. It is true that if we cannot be influenced ourselves, we cannot influence the outside world.

The will is directed to the ramifications.

The back of the neck is immobile. The influence is sound at the root. And where the root is sound the ramifications are also sound. Therefore the influence is good. The line is strong and central and ruler of the hexagram, hence it influences through the perfect calm of inner equilibrium. At the same time the will is not inert, by controlling the chief organic processes, it achieves order in particulars as well.
-Wilhelm.

 

[frank_r]

0 Nine in the fifth place means:
The influence shows itself in the back of the neck.
No remorse.

The back of the neck is the most rigid part of the body. When the influence shows itself there, the will remains firm and the influence does not lead to confusion.

The neck is a part of the body where are no real acupuncture points. There are acupuncture points just below the skull and under the first breast vertebrae.
This last one is called the big hammer (GV 14) and is the end of the manifestation(most yang point there is in the body). The manifestation is started at the beginning of the spine which has to do with the beginning of material life(meeting of yin).(GV 1)
The starting point is the symbolic creation of Men, and the Big Hammer is the end of this manifestation.

The next point is called the Mute gate(GV 15) and has a relation with the tongue and voice and is situated just under the skull.
The back of the neck itself is the road which everybody has to travel itself, this is the path where no real help is possible, and when you have travelled this path you come into contact with the voice and verbal expression and the maturaty of the spiritual being.

 

[Trojina]

31 I think covers many areas i never expect it to - i certainly don't relate it much to sexuality- hmm recently I was asking about my spider phobia which was giving me some grief and 31 came up - attraction - I don't think so !! but certainly undue influence - actually it was 31,4 possibly saying 'pull yourself together you stoopid woman noone will take you seriously if you fall apart at the sight of a spider'.

Got 31.5 a few times re shoulder pain - which i do believe likley did originate from the neck. I see 31 as about how things lean on/impinge on each other yet i guess thats more of a hex 30 idea ....Persuading more than wooing i think unless you do your wooing in a kinda sickly way.

 

[rosada]

I see 30 as being about two very strong independant energies. You have fire above and fire below. If two people are completely self sufficient they aren't ever going to progress as a unit because they each have such strong independant ideas. Like two Aries people maybel 30. illuminates the four quarters of the world with his bright ideas, but is anybody listening? 31. comes along and shows how one can connect, can be Influenced by another without giving up one's self, "the superior man encourages people to approach him by his readiness to receive them."

 

[Trojina]

Thinking a bit more it came to me perhaps 31 was as much about repulsion as attraction - they are just different sides of the same coin - repulsion is as much an influence as attraction - being moved, impacted upon or impacting.

 

[rosada]

Your suggestion that 31 could also be about repulsion sent me scurrying back to Wilhelm to really dig into this hexagram, trojan! As usual I don't have a unified theory but here are the random thoughts...

First, noting that "the superior man encourages people to approach him by his READINESS to receive them." Perhaps 31 has something to say about how we can READY ourselves.
30. was about this firey energy spreading it's brightness to "the four quarters of the world". This causes me to consider how we can be in the world surrounded by all these people, these firey consciousnesses, who are on very different trips from our own and in order to live our own trip, we need to be able to navigate past them without getting sucked in. Hubby may see Sunday as a day of rest, but Wifey may see it as Dad's chance to mow the lawn. So now how do we influence those who share our day to see it the way we do?

31.1
The influence shows itself in the big toe.

We ourselves may not even be aware yet how we see ourselves. Like a child before puberty.

31.2
The influence shows itself in the calves of the legs.
Misfortune.
Tarrying brings good fortune.

The young child always going along with elders, but starting to wonder, "Why don't we ever ...have pizza, go to the movies, etc.?" and not being so quick to jump to go along with the adults to church or grandma's or whatever boring event. One's own inner uniqueness starting to be felt.

31.3
The influence shows itself in the thighs.
Holds to that which follows it.
To continue is humiliating.

This seems to be the place where one is really recognizing and dealing with the sence of separation from others. At first one hasn't even realized they are a separate self, then one sees that they are, and they see this because they realize they have very different taste from the people around them. Our individual desires are different. So realizing we can no longer comfortably go along with the crowd, what to do? 31.3 sounds to me like what we say when we have Saturn in the seventh house. Saturn is the planet that has to do with rules and bounderies. The seventh house of a horoscope is the area having to do with partnership. Having Saturn there means the person is dealing with boundries between self and others. The young soul feels others are putting restrictions on them, the initial impulse is to want to tell others what to do but the ultimate resolution is to put the restrictions on oneself. This seems to mirror what Wilhelm says about this line, "A man should not run percipitately after all the persons whom he would like to influence, but must be able to hold back under certain circumstances. As little should he yield immediately to every whim of those in whose service he stands. Finally, where the moods of his own heart are concerned, he should never ignor the possibility of inhibition, for this is the basis of human freedom."

So it seems like the first three lines of 31. are about how one can refrain from being pulled in by the influence of others.

Then 31.4 we have the dramatic change. Seems now our seeker can feel free to just be himself and everything works out fine. How does this happen? How did we get from the self contained isolation of 31.3 to this fabulous feeling of Everybody Loves You Just The Way You Are? The Fanyo(?) of 31.3 - 43.3 seems to give a clue. But anyway, now we seem to be starting to get the insights on how to attract. The fanyo of 31.4 - 39.4 has
some interesting ideas. It talks about realizing one needs help, and not going forward until one attracts the help they need.

31.5
The influence shows itself in the back of the neck.
No remorse.

The fanyo of 31.5 is 62.5 and this line talks about attracting the help one needs!
---

So all in all, there seems to be a sermon here about when we start out in life we may not know yet what we're doing or where we're going to want to go, and the promise in time that will change (31.1/49.1), and so a bit of a warning not to simply sign on with the plans of others, which could be great for them but not so good for us (31.2/28.2). Then as we start to recognize our interests the advice is we should become independant and surround ourselves with people who reinforce this self image (31.3/45.3) As we cannot dictate how people see us, it may not feel like we're not making rapid progress, (31.4/39.4 Obstruction). But Change Happens and more and more we do recognize we can survive being true to ourselves and we wont be alone (31.5/62.5)

So bottom line, it seems the way to influence others is to Be Yourself.

Actually, that's not the bottom line, but the bottom line, 31.6, says writing all of this out is probably unnecessary and I'm not ready to deal with that yet.

 

[Trojina]

Only reason i said 31 might include repulsion is I've noted personally it coming up where influence of others is something i want to run a mile from, 31,3 is especially heavy - but repulsion is often the flipside of initial attraction - what you run away from today was perhaps what you ran towards yesterday - its all about boundaries i guess - a difficult area to navigate yes and keep your individuality - so yes I'd agree with alot of what you said about sense of self here.

 

[rosada]

Six at the top means:
The influence shows itself in the jaws, cheeks, and tongue.

The most superficial way of trying to influence others is through talk that has nothing behind it. The influence produced by such mere tongue wagging must necessarily remain insignificant. Hence no indication is added regarding good or bad fortune.

He opens his mouth and chatters.

This is a weak line that in itself has little influence. The trigram Tui means the mouth. The top line is divided, hence opening the mouth.

{33.6 Retreat
Nine at the top means:
Cheerful retreat. Everything serves to further.}
-Wilhelm

 

[laylab]

No one really discussed 31.6 that much...

I think from a positive angle, influence coming from the mouth, through words can also mean open dialog and conversation and be about influencing others with positive, uplifting speech.

Think about a counselor encourage a couple to speak to one another and how to communicate or simply a woman asking her man to say more romantic, "wooing" things to her.

On the flip side, influence through the mouth can be propoganda. Think of Hitler. He was a genius orator and the people were completely in awe of him.

 

[rosada]

Laylab, I too was thinking about this line today and how it fits with what's been going on with all the chatting about people's comings and goings AND note the corresponding line: 33.6 Cheerful retreat!

 

[ravenstar]

Nine in the third place means:
The influence shows itself in the thighs.
Holds to that which follows it.
To continue is humiliating.

Every mood of the heart influences us to movement. What the heart desires, the thighs run after without a moment's hesitation; they hold to the heart, which they follow. In the life of a man, however, acting on the spur of every caprice is wrong and if continued leads to humiliation. Three considerations suggest themselves here. First, a man should not run precipiately after all the persons whom he would like t influence, but must be able to hold back under certain circumstances. As little should he yield immediately to every whim of those in whose service he stands. Finally, where the moods of his own heart are concerned, he should never ignore the possibility of inhibition, for this is the basis of human freedom.

"The influence shows itself in the thighs." For he cannot keep still.
When the will is directed to things that one's followers hold to, this is very base.

Since the two lower lines are weak by nature, it is not surprising that they let themselves be influenced by others. But this strong line could easily master itself and not yield to every stimulus from below. It makes itself contemptible by conforming to the aims of the two lower lines, its followers.

Returning to Hex 31, line 3, I'm interested in expanding the knowledge of this line. Is there an actual conflict in the direction of an action? Or may we be swayed by others, or an outer authority because we aren't clear or focused on what we want to bring into our life....or we believe others know us better than ourselves? Could guilt, lack of self-worth or need for acceptance play a factor in this?

Is it where one must admit they aren't sure which way to go, admit they don't know, which then magnetically draws them to new avenues of information.

Thanks :bows:
ravenstar

 

[Sparhawk]

Hmmm, I just noticed that this hexagram discussion in the Memorizing Threads is one of the shortest ones...

 

[maremaria]

THE IMAGE
A lake on the mountain:
The image of influence,
Thus the superior man encourages people to approach him
By his readiness to receive them.

Yi is laughing with us

( with the help of ravenstar )

nice coincidence

 

[my_key]

Returning to Hex 31, line 3, I'm interested in expanding the knowledge of this line. Is there an actual conflict in the direction of an action? Or may we be swayed by others, or an outer authority because we aren't clear or focused on what we want to bring into our life....or we believe others know us better than ourselves? Could guilt, lack of self-worth or need for acceptance play a factor in this?

Is it where one must admit they aren't sure which way to go, admit they don't know, which then magnetically draws them to new avenues of information.

Thanks :bows:
ravenstar

Hi Janice
This line carries for me a sense of all that glitters is not gold, and that at times we are drawn into a course of action where all we can do is to go and look for that gold, probably looking for it at the end of the rainbow carefully hidden at the end of the hall of mirrors. Then only when we realise where the gold isn't can we come to realise where the true glitter really lies.

Could guilt, lack of self-worth or need for acceptance play a factor in this?

Yep - all this and much more besides from my experiences - the list can appear endless but does shorten over the years

When we don't lead we are drawn to follow - even to the point of getting sucked in. Nature abhors a vacuum and so admitting we don't know is a great way to lead in my book - it's the first step we can take under our own steam. A first step away from the chaos into becoming us and Nature will show us how to get there.

Or perhaps it's nothing like this at all

Be well

Mike

 

[ravenstar]

Hi Janice
This line carries for me a sense of all that glitters is not gold, and that at times we are drawn into a course of action where all we can do is to go and look for that gold, probably looking for it at the end of the rainbow carefully hidden at the end of the hall of mirrors. Then only when we realise where the gold isn't can we come to realise where the true glitter really lies.


Yep - all this and much more besides from my experiences - the list can appear endless but does shorten over the years

When we don't lead we are drawn to follow - even to the point of getting sucked in. Nature abhors a vacuum and so admitting we don't know is a great way to lead in my book - it's the first step we can take under our own steam. A first step away from the chaos into becoming us and Nature will show us how to get there.

Or perhaps it's nothing like this at all

Be well

Mike

Good morning, sparhawk, maremarie and my_key,

I love maremarie's quote on the image, "encourages people to approach him" , how true. And it is true what sparhawk said, this hexagram contains the shortest discussion. I would definitely be interested in going back to the beginning of this hex, I think it would offer more insight (for me anyway) of its meaning.

my_key, wow, loved your visual with the rainbow, pot of gold and hall of mirrors....that would indeed be a very interesting painting to consider and do!

Reading your interpretation prompted me to look at and remember the psychological and metaphysical energies regarding the 'thigh(s)', which has to do with past issues, parental problems, traumatic childhood memories, anger and or resentment. It's also assoicated with our sexuality and intimacy, which we learned as children from our parents.

The yang meridians that govern the thigh are the bladder, gallbladder and stomach…these are the longest meridians of the body. The bladder meridian governs the spine and the physical structure of the back. The stomach and the gallbladder work together to support us in an upright position. A weakness in one affects the others, creating tension and discomfort in the body. The bladder connects at the sacrum with the gallbladder securing the alignment of hips and lower back.....so, lower back pain, sciatica, tension and discomfort can result if there is a weakness in either one of these meridians. One with affect the other.

Psychologically the bladder embodies many aspects of ourselves that we put behind us, and that could undermine our determination. Fear, jealousy, guilt or repressed sexual longings, the emotions we are reluctant to acknowledge, are pushed into the back of our minds. This unwanted baggage holds us back, reduces our drive, movement and the effort keep it a secret from others, exhausts us.

With the bladder being one of the longest meridians it can affect the eyes, the sinuses, hayfever, headaches, neck tension, pain, discomfort and tension along the spine.

I have problems with my bladder meridian. Whem imbalanced, I feel frustrated, stuck and limited.....I whine with sayings like 'I don't know what to do, if only I had money, if I had more time, I'm so impatient...blah blah blah! When in that mode, others will try to cheer me up and this I've noticed is also a 'habit' of getting others attention.....it's also as you mentioned, waitting for something magical to appear....the mirrors justify oury inaction with 'this is all too confusing'.

To help move meridian forward, the first thing I've noticed that works is being truthful in about what I want, instead of the things I don't want. Another is moving away from the old behavior of being helpless to get attention LOL!.

This is part of an article from my blog.....

Integrity is the ability to find your ‘root’ (personal subjectivity), your inner most core and be able to ‘stand’ through the many turbulent changes and transitions in life. (I learnt that in astrology). We were asked, when you get hurt, intuit a strong feeling, do you lose it all, throw it all away or stay centered in yourself. If a loved one passes on, how do you cope? If you overreact, misinterpret something, can you forgive yourself, live with yourself? How do you hold up in the face of opposition?

Our Rising sign will do anything to get encouragement and attention from others. Words of praise motivates us personally—we spin around and out from our inner motivations, from where we come from, our roots, our culture, our homes, our mothers. Everyday we go in, we go out, we see what we can do and get a ‘pulsing’ of certain attitudes and patterns—it’s how we dance through life. We often expect everyone to accept where we’re coming from and that doesn’t always happen, does it?

One of the students in the class asked if integrity and values had similar meanings. We were told values are an outward expression, integrity is about our own inner truth.

Integrity is the deepest point within ourselves, it’s not a static point, it’s not just a thing, it’s a ‘presence’, it’s like a Star-light and very few people live consciously in that point of their life. And those that do, we rarely meet because they don’t want to be interrupted—they’re deep inside their own personal world!

How do you live with yourself? The world doesn’t stay the same, it keeps turning—we go through change and so does the outside world—we become ‘attached’ inwardly and outwardly—we have different focuses—everyday we take in and give out energy. Some days we ‘stay deep within our home’, other days we go out, extend ourselves and affect others. Once you project you see your affects on other people—and if you get an affect you will project further—and if you don’t you’ll back off and try something else. If not, you’ll get insecure about it. So our Rising sign, Ascendant, 1st house is how we project ourselves and our Descendant is how others react to us. We all bounce off each other in different ways and we can get along with anybody as long as we are okay with who they are.

Our ascendant and descendant are in opposition to each other. They fight each other in ourselves! Sometimes we have an awareness of them but most of the time we are in a dilemma about them—especially what we put out and the reactions we get. If we start getting reactions we don’t want we have to come to terms with it and do it differently. We push things one way or another and we build up extremes in one area. As soon as this happens we are not dealing with the other half. And if we can’t deal with it, we tend to disassociate, forget about it, move on.

Aries, Taurus, Gemini Cancer, Leo and Virgo are all motivated by a certain amount of freedom and independence—they don’t like others cramping their style. They need space. It doesn’t mean these signs can’t relate or have relationships, it just means you are centered, motivated and held together by You—not so much by belonging.

People with Libra, Scorpio Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces are motivated by ‘how they belong’. “Whose doing things with Me—let’s build it together’ and this gets more complicated.

Our deepest point within, the Immun Coeli (IC), is the most important point in our chart and the most ignored in Astrology—because everything spins around your ‘personal integrity. It is the umbilical cord of the soul—how you got connected to your body in the first place.The immune coeli, the 4th house is where you came from, your foundation, your security. It is the point of midnight in the horoscope and is seen as a symbol of the soul, its origins, homeland, family, our inner most issues, our past, or past lives. It is the You that gets up and puts on a face to greet the world. It’s You that goes out the door before you even react to anybody. So the IC is your anchor, where you are relating to everyone else and where you are coming from out of the world outside of yourself. And if we aren’t anchored deep within this point we can become overwhelmed by situations, crowds, noise, people, odors, temperatures and all kinds of other sudden changes. If we try to process different degrees of depth, we begin filtering criticisms, rejections, betrayals, losses and deaths.

So how do we live with ourselves, hold ourselves together, stay centered, take impressions in and put them out? By living our own personal inner truth. And it’s not rational, it’s not centered by other people, it’s in ourselves! So everything below the horizon represents our deeper subjective being.

Integrity is so simple yet so powerful! It means subjective motivation and personal power. The problem is we are always aligning ourselves one way or another, positive or negative to conditions and people in our life. To the soul it doesn’t matter, it’s still going to experience—but through these experiences we begin holding judgments and layer upon layer they become crystallized onto our ‘wheel’. It can take months, years to recognize and peel away the buildup and eliminate them from our unconscious.

Our quest is to discover who we are in this most deepest point and take the risk of being unique in ourselves. We then will find the way of living and feeling rich, empowered and authentic.

The IC is connected to a powerful line that ascends to the Midheaven. This is called the line of consciousness. The Midheaven is the highest point in the sky. It is the peak of our accomplishments, our status, honor, respect, position, what kind of career you have and how much you accomplish each day. It represents our social integrity and our communal relations—what type of job we have and how we hold it altogether. The higher the profile, the higher we have to hold ourselves in our community It’s where we push out to be somebody each and everyday.

Putting time out in the world requires effort to do it. How responsible are you for what you put out in the world. If something goes right or wrong are you ready to back it up? Are you ready to pay for the price of your mistakes as well as the benefits of your victories? If you go bankrupt will you still pay everyone you owe? If you don’t there will be repercussions.

How many people can have an effect on others and still not have their career ruined? We are in contact with lower energies and it takes Integrity to react to the status we want to achieve.

We are all coming from our past moving towards our future. With different priorities, different values, different game plans—they change daily. The sun goes up, the sun goes down—we go around our chart, changing and accumulating to it daily. We can’t change what happened but we can add to it today—which is the essential basis in healing.

I'll end this here

ravenstar

 

[rosada]

Thanks for writing out your ideas ravenstar. It's grand that people continue to add thoughts to the memorizing threads.
rosada

 

[butterfly spider]

And so ..

31 is one if those hexagrams I understand but can't verbalise. If someone told me to write all I knew about this hexagram I would struggle. And yet I can understand what it is saying

I went to a circle last week where we put a jewellery item into a pot and then picked one out to see if we could feel something about it. The only jewellery I had was my belly button piercing - duly put into the dish. The lady who picked it really found it distasteful - yuk she said. I suppose there is an element of yukness for some people - I dislike tattoos

However - she said that she felt such piercing a represented sexual desires ( on my part) which possibly is correct but I only had it done on a belly dancing workshop - nothing sordid wiith it

Line 31.3 which I got just now - in how to move forward - mentions body piercing a specifically in this thread and the sexual element of hex 31. Urges impulses - which I suppose links with my getting my piercing done on the spur of the moment. Where it ties in with yukness I don't know. It is a weak line .... So how does that tie in I wonder with moving forward.


I think this is the dilemma if hex 31 all the talk about big toes backs body piercings.
Acupuncture however - I can relate to this

I'm still no further along with verbalising hex 31.
Xx

 

[butterfly spider]

Wow just seen this!

 

[butterfly spider]

Have just read some postings on hex 31 ESP 31.3. Repulsion guilt all sorts of goblins in the woodwork
Belly button piercing a repulsion sexual urges moving forward

Very 31.3