Memorizing the I Ching, Hex. 2

[ewald]

With my current translation of 2.2, I'd expect it to come up as an advice to not try to practice for something, but to act spontaneously:

Immediately completely right, untrained.
Without disadvantage.​

 

[rosada]

Today as we are focusing on 2.2 my son calls and I learn he is off visiting his sister. It's natural for them to be having lunch together, but I am pleased because, you know, way back before they were born their dad and I were two separate people and from MY perspective we "created" a family by ACTING as if we were one, but who knew if anyone else would believe our act? So now when our kids keep in touch with us and each other it makes me happy cause it's just 2.2 obvious that this is indeed a family.

 

[rosada]

Hexagram 2.3

2.3
Hidden lines.
One is able to remain persevering.
If by chance you are in the service of a king,
Seek not works, but bring to completion.

"Hidden lines." What is this? Like power lines burried under the earth? Is the I Ching saying there are connections we are unaware of? Positive or negative? I assume positive because of the next sentance...

"One is able to remain persevering." One can keep on keeping on..

"If by chance you are in service to a king," This is weird. Why is the I Ching bothering to include "by chance"? Perhaps some other translation makes sence of this phrase. Seems verbose in a book that usually uses so few words. Anyway, If you happen to be doing something for another,...

"Seek not works," Wilhelm says "works" actually means credit. (so why didn't he use "credit"? He's changed so many other words...)

"but bring to completion." Just finish the job.

So roughly interpreted it seems the I Ching is telling me that at this point in my understanding I should be able to recognize it is not necessary for me create the universe from scratch, but simply to recognize there are already hidden energy lines in place that will enable me to continue on. I can go with the flow. Furthermore, I can use this insight to make my living. If I take a job, I ought preform it in a manner that brings out the beauty of the work and attracks no attention myself. Kinda like a carpenter who follows a blueprint exactly. Interesting the advice is that by not seeking personal recognition one is then able to get a job completed. Is this an insight into why so many of us have half finished manuscripts in the drawer? Is it our egos can become so attached to our work we can never complete it/ release it?

Real life experience: I took a tofu dish to a potluck. It was all I had to bring on short notice so I quietly slipped it onto the buffet and hid on the otherside of the room. Turns out most of the people at the gathering were vegetarians. My offering was a big hit.

Hidden lines = Why had I bought these tofu ingrediants to begin with? Not my usual menu. Hidden forces at work which allowed me to..

..remain persevering = go to the gathering.

If by chance you are in service to a king = well if I want to accept the challenge of bringing a dish (actually, I could have gone without one)

seek not works/credit = didn't make a big deal out of it...

but bring to completion = just be glad I got rid of the tofu? But the unspoken promise here is that if one does get the assignment without fanfare, there will be recognition as a result of the job well done, and I did indeed get several nice comments about how tasty the dish was and how cool I was for being a vegan - which I'm not but still fun to hear. Perhaps that is another reason why one is cautioned not to put oneself forward with the work - you maybe seen as being someone you are not.

 

[ewald]

Indeed a strange sentence: "Hidden lines." (It is also in 44.5.)

The Chinese character 章 means (o.a.) sentence, article, chapter, story, thesis, so these "lines" would be "sentences." Still, "hidden sentences" doesn't make much sense either.
The character 含 translated by Wilhelm as "hidden," can mean include, insert, ingest, swallow / keep in one's mouth / contain, hold / withold, bear, restrain (oneself).
I take these two characters to mean that a story is sort of "kept in the mouth," it is "witheld." It is something one doesn't tell about.

I also find the "by chance" a bit weird. I translate 或 as "somebody."

So my translation of 2.3 is:

Keeping the story to oneself allows for persistence.
Somebody attending to the king's affairs,
is without achievement, but will bring things to an end.
​

This is about doing some work for somebody else, without telling about it and taking credit. Goes fine with Rosada's example.

 

[rosada]

"Keeping the story to oneself allows for persistance" certainly flows more smoothly to the rest of the hexagram's comment on quietly completing one's task!
To bounce this story off another wall... today - as I am focusing on 2.3 - I got an email from a friend commenting on a project I am considering. She pointed out some of the hidden ramifications I had not been aware of - mainly pointing out enough things that could go wrong that I am at the point of giving up my intention. So maybe "Hidden lines. One is able to remain persevering" means "only by not knowing all the things that could go wrong, are we able to get out of bed in the morning." Ha! But seriously, perhaps as you say ewald, as we keep our mouths shut and just do our work we can avoid the endless considerations that stop anything from getting completed at all.

 

[philippa]

Indeed a strange sentence: "Hidden lines." (It is also in 44.5.)

The Chinese character 章 means (o.a.) sentence, article, chapter, story, thesis, so these "lines" would be "sentences." Still, "hidden sentences" doesn't make much sense either.

Hmm. Given that 章 means a "meaning unit" (be it a line or a paragraph, etc.), I think the correct metaphoric extension of this word is "content" or "substance", or even "treasure". Then 含章 would mean "containing substance or treasure". So the line can be thought of as "having the right stuff, you can deal with matters of importance and bring it to completion."

Besides 44.5, the meaning of 章 can be compared to 章 in 55.5 as well, where these instances all seem to refer to "good content."

As an aside, 含 reminds me of the word 包 (appeared in 4.2, 12.2, 12.3). 包 is often translated as "embrace" or "wrap". But when one looked at how 包 is used (e.g., 包羞 in 12.3), this (containing/embracing shame/bad stuff) can serve as a contrast to 含章 (containing good stuff).

Philippa

 

[martin]

In 2.3 it's like there is certain loss of contact with what is going on because we, instead of being receptive, want to take the lead and "own" the action (be the doers).
Things are not really hidden. They appear to be hidden because we stopped listening to them.
Does that make sense?

 

[Trojina]

I threw this answer a few days ago, hex 2, line 3. Didn't make much sense in regard to my question which was should I begin taking anti depressant drugs again. I did not really want to but sometimes it can be a wise move, or has done in the past.

Um hard to relate that answer to my question at all but my gut feeling was not to take them, wouldn't be necessary. Thats how I interpreted the answer, though that is not what the line says really is it, lol. Reading some of the input here maybe its beginning to make more sense, as in nothing needs to be added to my 'system' it can be contained, hmm and also I took it that if some depression was stemming from perceived lack of progress I should not really take that to heart, hence my decision, for now anyway Funny answer to get though I thought, hmm but at least in harmony with this thread.

 

[bruce_g]

to recognize there are already hidden energy lines in place that will enable me to continue on

I agree with this. I think hidden lines has to do with hidden talent and ability. Service to the king would be a high calling; one where the king is in charge and not self. What matters here is not recognition (or patting self on the back) but following through with the king's creative action.

 

[rosada]

Interesting take, Martin. You are suggesting that because one may be focusing on one area of their lives, they are oblivious to other areas and thus there exists a "hidden" element, which would not be so hidden if the person could relax and not be so tightly focused elsewhere? Like if a person were not so intent on starting the car, they might notice they hadn't released the break? So 2.3 is counseling one ought not be drawn into competitions (with the king) as this would mean giving unequal importance to just one area of one's life and thus would distort the power grid? I'm not sure I agree that's what the ancients meant, but, hey, seems to work.

Trojan, I think your interpretation that 2.3 is suggesting you need not do medication fits. With your Virgo rising (the sign ruling work in the part of your astrological chart ruling one's outlook on life), are the referances to work in this hexagram a suggestion that you would get joy from work you do for its own sake - a meaningful hobby perhaps? (Rats, the word "hobby" sounds so piddley, but I mean work you would do whether you were paid or not, the work you feel you were born to do!)
Plus don't let the needs and opinions of the various "kings" in your country get you down!

(That last thought I cribbed from you, Bruce ;-)

 

[rosada]

2.4

2.4
A tied up sack.
No blame. No praise.

No comment.

 

[martin]

Like if a person were not so intent on starting the car, they might notice they hadn't released the break?

Yes, something like that.
For one reason or another we become tight. Awareness goes into a too narrow focus and we lose contact with the totality.

The reason could be fear. For example when we are relaxing and dreaming away in a rubber boat on the ocean and suddenly notice that we drifted far from the coast. Eek!
And of course, like you wrote in an earlier post, another possibility is that the ego gets in the way. The "positive" ego (look what I have done, I'm so great! ) or the "negative" ego (omg, in a few minutes I have to go on stage to give that talk and there are so many people, 500, 600? :bag.

 

[rosada]

What is the story of hexagram 2 really all about? If The Creative is the ascent from the Collective Unconcious to Individual Conciousness, then The Receptive would be the descent back into the Collective Unconcious again only instead of just going back to sleep, hex.2 tells us how to retain our conciousness as we blend in with the universal mind?

2.1 Recognizing that one has entered a time of diminishing returns for the personal ego/conciousness.

2.2 Recognition that there exists collective conciousness/unconciousness that we may not understand, but that we are apart of..

2.3 Recognition that while we may not know how this group conciousness/unconciousness supports us, (the support lines are hidden) it is still to our advantage to conciously blend in with the group effort (One is able to remain persevering) but not to try to bolster conciousness of one's self at this time (seek not works) but use our abilities to serve the group effort (bring to completion) BECAUSE the whole direction of the flow right now is toward emersing self into the Greater Self. In short, to me it seems this line is saying now's the time to Have Faith.

(And it certainly fits here, Martin, that this would be a very scary time, because it discribes a situation of loosening our concious control. Not just giving a speech in fount of a crowd - giving an impomptu speech!)

2.4 then, the tied up sack seems to me to be refering to the slimmest bit of concious awareness necessary to keep one awake while plunging into the deepest state of meditation. Or perhaps there is no conciousness at this point, only the unconcious... Like 2.3 is about saying your prayers - demonstrating faith - before you go to sleep and then 2.4 is sleep.


Anyway, this is as far as I've gotten today.

 

[jesed]

Hi rosada

I like to see hex 1 and 2 at the light of Time and Space, the 2 mayor coordenates for human life. Hex 1 how to use Time for your life; hex 2 how to use Space for your life

Best wishes

 

[Trojina]

Rosada just wanted to say thanks for your comments on my 2,3 answer. I never made the connection as work might be something to bring joy for its own sake. Ignoring those Kings, lol, one unusual way to look at it, never thought of that

 

[jesed]

HI Trojan

Just in case the comment could be useful

2.3: Don't decide by yourself if you need or not to take the antidepresive... ask a doctor and follow his/her orders.

If you try to lead on this, you could lose yourself... better to follow the indications of an expert (the doctor)

Quite clear (and wise) answer, I guess

Best wishes

 

[mudpie]

I drew 2.4 the other day regarding someone who is in a dismal situation, has been crying out for help to many people including myself. But she is frustrating because when it comes down to taking the action it seems she needs to, she claims it is too late, and that she is incapable of it.. She wants to feel better, but seems to only want others to listen , not to really do anything herself.

Her story is very dismal. She has no money, no car , she is an RN but cant work because she takes valium and wouldnt pass the blood test, and she is married to a drug abuser who has a low-level job and who verbally abuses her. It seems like she is in between a rock and a hard place. How can she leave the situation if she has no money, how can she stop taking valium when she has lifelong "social phobia?" She is very depressed, wants her life to end.
I spent a good two hours talking to her about the alternatives, how if she wanted change, she could make it happen. Ultimately she ended up just trying to convince me that she cant make the changes- it's too late and too hard.

she almost has convinced me too! I dont like to ever give up hope, but I wondered.......can it be too late, or can there just be some things that just are not solvable in the current lifetime?

After she left, I asked the Yi .." What is your opinion about it being too late/toohard for this woman to make changes for herself?"
the answer was 2.4

I think yi is pointing out that the woman has made up her mind and thats that. BUt another part of me felt like it was saying: YES, some times there aint nothing you can do, the case is closed.

 

[jesed]

Hi listener:

What a hard story

If you want to help her (and I assume you want), I would suggest you another aproach.. a dialogue in this order:

a) Global Diagnosis of X's Time
b) General Diagnosis of X' emotional time
c) deeper causes of X's emotional situation
d) How can I help X

Depression is a terrible illness... some people REALLY cann't help themselves, until some improvements if their health can be achieved.

I wish you and her the best

ps. in this case, i take 2.4 like: she is like a tied bag (incapsulated in her depression), she need to find some enthusiasm from her friends (16.4)

 

[mudpie]

Dear Jesed,
It isnt that I do not want to help her...the history is long, and sometimes there are victim-rescuer relationships that do not serve either party. This woman has spent her life finding people who will rescue her...and she has burned many bridges. As for myself, I am resigned from the business of rescuing. There is a thin line between helping and enabling sometimes.
She IS terribly depressed.......but this is also the result of her same choices over a long time and now she is kind of face to face with the result of not ever standing on her own feet....and she has had much help from many caring people, including psychiatrists. For years, she has come to me and asked me to "throw the I ching for me".she loves to talk about her problems, but I am serious when I say that when it comes to making a change, she avoids the discomfort of that and has a history of running to drugs or men to feel better.

but maybe you can use your method to decipher these answers..I hope this in not hijacking the thread...would you send me the results in private message?
gen diagnosis of x's time (9:58 8/7/06 ) 11.3
gen diagnosis of x's emotional state 45.1
deeper causes of emtions 39>3.5
how to help her 9>1.5

thank you!

 

[martin]

What is the story of hexagram 2 really all about? If The Creative is the ascent from the Collective Unconcious to Individual Conciousness, then The Receptive would be the descent back into the Collective Unconcious again only instead of just going back to sleep, hex.2 tells us how to retain our conciousness as we blend in with the universal mind?

Interesting Rosada. Collective unconscious, blending in with the universal mind .. in astrospeak it is all Neptune and hexagram 2 is very Neptunian. I think of it as Neptune in the twelfth house.

I wonder if line 4 could in some cases - if the process of hexagram 2 goes really deep - refer to something like 'crucifiction' or the death of the ego, the outer personality. Or perhaps even physical death.
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Made from earth returns to earth?

Anyway, we may think that we are dead or feel that we are as good as dead but death, like sleep, is not the end. Resurrection follows in line 5.
When the identification with the outer personality (the outer 'garment') ends the essence, the soul (the 'lower yellow garment') finally manifests in its full glory.
In line 2 we understand that we have a soul and this is an important realisation. But in fact we don't have a soul, we ARE soul. That is what is realised in line 5, I think. At least if hexagram 2 goes really deep ...


I wrote this before I read wat Listener wrote about her friend. It seems that she is indeed going through a 'crucifiction' and the more unpleasant Neptunian 'twelfth house' elements are also present. Life in the margin, being a victim, drug abuse, and so on.
Hexagram 2, like Neptune, is not all rosy.
Perhaps a therapist or healer who sees the potential of such a crisis and understands that it can be a forebode of 'resurrection' (line 5) can help your friend, Listener.

 

[rosada]

2.5
A yellow lower garment brings supreme good fortune.
...

I really like your take on 2.5, Martin. From now on I am going to think of this as the "Resurrection" line.
Some years back I had a problem with a sleep disorder. If I slept on my stomach I wouldn't get enough air. Only when this happened, instead of rolling over in my sleep, my body would be like a 2.4 tied up sack, and I would "wake up" outside my body! I'm outside my body gasping for air and screaming but no one can hear me. Ultimately I would pass out from lack of oxygen and then I guess I would somehow re-enter the physical and would wake up the right way - back in the my "garment", 2.5, and then be able to roll over.
Insidentally, modern medicine prescribed seizure medication, but I was ultimately healed doing a Chinese meditation ritual. My western doctors refused to recognize the cure - in fact wanted to increase the medication. I wonder if that conflict is what 2.6 refers to, and the conflicts created by all Miracles and Resurrections?

 

[Trojina]

With respect Jesed I could not trust a doctor with this issue. They routinely prescribe anti depressants for all manner of ailments. Infact many people get addicted to drugs doctors say are not addictive and have to seek help outside to come off them, I was one of them. A friend of mine who is a university lecturer/student mentor says she is shocked how many 19 year olds who may just be having a rough patch are on Prozac, quite shocking I think. However i do see the point you are making, just doesn't apply to me in this instance :bows: Ooops end of off topic rant.

Re 2, 4 I had a similar experience of this line to listener, not exactly similar but kind of along the same continuum. I asked what to do when my mum was ill, what action was appropriate. I remember Jesed helped me with the answer which proved spot on..there was nothing much i could do and infact trying to intervene to 'help' was not at all helpful. The illness was going to happen without me, in a sense kind of 'none of my business', nothing I would 'do' would have any impact. With someone close its hard to ever feel their welfare is 'none of your business' but sometimes it just isn't.

Theres alot of debate here at the moment between the scholars about translations of lines and their meanings. I think its great, really lively and interesting. However also we can get at the essential message of a line by sharing experience of that line.

Hmm 2.5 there was alot of debate about the meaning of the yellow undergarment on a thread a while back, yet this line means not a lot to me. Hoping someone can enlighten me with a real life experience, maybe.

 

[mudpie]

interesting, Martin. very interesting .I am going to suggest this woman see a therapist in NYC....this line 2.4 is more interesting than i have ever imagined.

Trojan...you are wise, docs give out that stuff WAY too easily.

 

[rosada]

Did everyone have a good 2.5 day today? I made a point of dressing nice and even wearing yellow. Got an awful lot done without rushing.
I am posting the next line tonight as I have a scheduling conflict tomorrow -how 2.6!- and may not be near a computer till late in the day....

2.6
Dragons fight in the meadow.
Their blood is yellow and black.
--

 

[rosada]

Strange day yesterday while focusing on 2.6. But first I think I have a new meaning for "2.4 A tied up sack." My husband and I were looking at an apartment building thinking it might be a place where a friend of ours would like to live. The manager was telling us they were full up, but as we stood in the lobby talking the elevator doors opened and parametics rolled out a gurney transporting a zipped up body bag! Without missing a beat, the manager went on to say, "...but we may have an opening very soon..." Yeah, like right now. Anyway, if our friend wants the apartment I guess it's available. Makes me think 2.6 means "Survival of the fittest."
...

When all the lines are sixes,
Lasting perseverance furthers.

 

[rosada]

Hey, we made it through Hexagrams one and two! Supposedly just these two hexagrams tell everything we know and need to know, and 3 - 64 are just refining the story. So hip hip hurray!

Any additional thoughts on hex 2 before we move on to Difficulty at the Beginning?
I was reading over what we had posted here and I note that Trojan mentioned she felt that 2.1 simply was stating a fact, and not particularly giving a person guidance to "prepare" for winter's coming. I think now this is true. I think 2.1 is like when you trip walking into a room and you recognize that you are walking into a new force field, one that may not be entirely compatible. Or like when you call someone on the phone and they don't answer and you realize this signifies more than their simply not being home, that perhaps it signifies they aren't on the same wave length with what you were going to say.

Trojan also mentioned she wasn't convinced she understood 2.5. I think it is fair to say hex. 2 is all about finding proper guidance and I think 2.5 defines a really great guide. I think of the experience I mentioned earlier with the manager at the apartment building. This woman - who was wearing a yellow shirt - graciously told us everything we needed to know about the apartment AND also mentioned other available apartments in the area. She did not try to sell us her building, but instead gave us very clear information that allowed us to make up our own minds. A truly excellent guide!

I am not satisfied with what I know about 2.6. It does seem to be about seeing - being Receptive to? - a wider world than one knew at the start. I mean, in the apartment hunting scenario, after my husband (who tripped by the way, as we were first entering the building! Watchout for the hoarfrost!) and I saw them rolling out the tied up sack/body bag the rest of the day seemed like a circus. We saw people doing all kinds of things - running after buses, laughing out of windows, sitting on curbstones chatting - minnie dramas emerging all over. Ultimately we were in a restaurant famished and ready to pounce on the people ahead of us in line, just like 2.6 dragons fighting in a meadow. This all seemed connected to the experience of seeing the tied up sack and the apartment guide urging us to look everywhere before making up our minds - as if somehow these reminders that life is short made everything else seem more alive.

All 6's: Lasting perseverance furthers.
We did eventually get seated in the restaurant, but we decided not to think anymore about possibly moving to Portland, but to persever with our home in Wa.

Insidentally, Portland is to the Southwest of where we live. After our hectic day in the city we were very glad to forgo all those energies and return to our isolated mountain top in the Northeast.

 

[Sparhawk]

 

[pembs]

Hexagram 2 - All Lines Changing

In the last four or five months I have been consistently been receiving Hexagram 2 with all 6 lines changing. This has happened probably about six or seven times. My husband and I separated approx six months ago and all questions relate to this, from "is this now the end?" to "can we ever rebuild our relationship?"

Stephen Karcher suggestes that all six lines changing can be interpreted as being 'a long term effort which is perpetually advantageous'. Does anybody else have any views on this? I don't really understand what it is trying to tell me!

I seem to get all lines changing on several hexagrams although not as frequently as Hexagram 2. Most questions I present to the I Ching are connected to the same topic and I have had all lines changing for Hexagram 1 several times, Hexagram 23 and Hexagram 44.

I would be grateful to hear any helpful advice!

 

[rosada]

Dear pembs,
Thanks for bringing this Memorizing thread up for review. It was fun to see how much enthusiasm I had back at the beginning...Anyway, as you are asking for advice your question belongs over in Friends' Area. You'll most likely get some helpful responces if you restate it over there.

Best wishes,
Rosada

 

[pembs]

Thanks for this Rosada - I am sure I will get the hang of this eventually!

Kind Regards
Claire