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Misunderstanding with friend -> #13

L

lilian

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Hi all

After our last get-together my friend and I parted with misunderstanding and disagreement. Mostly a little unsensivity and naivety on my part, I guess.

I would like to clear it with her, but don't know if I should let her "take a breath" before I approach her, or do it as soon as possible. I asked the Yi for advice and got #13, lines 1, 2, 4 and 5 moving. (boy, again so many moving lines)

Now my questions:
Why is "the second line, by virtue of its central character, unites the five strong lines around it" - when it says: humiliation?
That's where we/I are right now, I guess.

So do I have to "wait for three days" - as suggested by the relating hexagram 18, until I call her?

What is exactly meant by line 4:
"He climbs up on his wall. He cannot attack.
Good fortune."
Do any of us two "climb on a wall", i.e. feel haughty?

Any help is greatly appreciated, as I long for the "afterward they laugh".

Lilian

PS. I start to understand my NewYear's hexagram #6. First troubles with the landlord, and now this...
 

gene

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Lillian

With that many changing lines, first, I would recommend looking at the hexagram as a whole. The overall trend of the hexagram is from dissension to understanding. You asked about line 4. First lets look at line three. Here is a situation where two or more people are suspicious of each other and are spying each other out in a manner of speaking. Kind of like two people who have strong Scorpio influence in their chart. Well, line four shows the two people realizing their fight is senseless and that it is useless to attack each other. When they realize the other persons intentions are good, they lay down their weapons. It is so easy to see the guile in another person, and so hard to see it in ourselves. When we understand things are not as they appear, we put our weapons of mistrust down and open up to each other.

I want to bring up a little note here relating to information in past threads. I had once mentioned that on the higher levels of spirituality, men need to teach men and women need to teach women. Here is a case in point of how the two sexes operate and think differently. I have noticed that women who teach Tai Chi or other arts have a tendency to get into the details of a situation right away. And don't get me wrong, details are very important. Men do not, they teach the principle, and then after a person has practiced and practiced to the point where they understand the movement, then the details take care of themselves. Neither way is right or wrong in and of itself, but details first tends to work for women, principles first tends to work for men. The reason I bring this up is I see an attention to detail in this thread. A tendency to notice words like haughty and put an emphasis on them. That's not bad. And I certainly understand the reasoning behind it, but in this particular case I feel it is much more important to look at the overall picture.

I hope this helps, Lillian.

Gene
 

louise

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Hi Lilian, my basic feeling here is that this is going to work out alright. The multiple moving lines can be seen as a sequence of events. Line 1, you met. Line 2, the misunderstanding. In my experience line 4 has seemed to mean you're all girded up to do battle, defend whatever, but then see theres no reason for it - its okay. Line 5 of course speaks for itself. By the way I make your relating hexagram 26 not 18 ?
 

louise

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Or maybe line 4 here means shes not as angry with you as you may fear - 'climbs up on wall, then sees no need to do battle'. Perhaps you don't need to be so cautious about approaching her to make ammends.
 
L

lilian

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Hi Gene

Thank you for drawing my attention to the overall picture.

Do you think it is specific to gender to either see more details or more overall view? I'm not sure. Also, some people are more process-oriented, and others more goal-oriented. Maybe it's just a matter of individuality.

That's why it's so great to get so many different views here.

You write:
"The overall trend of the hexagram is from dissension to understanding."
I see it a little different. To me it is more like a wave or a circle, starting out in innocent agreement, building up mistrust and disagreement, solving it - how do you interpret the last line with "understanding"?

Thank you
LiLian
 
L

lilian

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Hi Louise

Yes, I can see the lines as a sequence too. I always had the feeling that in the end we would be friends again - I just didn't know the way to go about it. Maybe I'm really worrying too much.

I looked again closely, I get Hexagram 18. Kien changes to Gen, and Li changes to Sun. Which makes sense, cleaning out the rotten undercurrents as Hilary has called it in another thread (I don't remember the exact words). Can you check your results please?

Thanks
LiLian
 

louise

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Oh yeah you're right. I was leaving out line 1 for some reason. Yes the relating hexagram is 18.
 

gene

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Hi Lillian

Yes, I can see it as a wave or a circle. It is the third and fourth line that are the most dissenting. Those two lines are in the center of the hexagram and prominent in the nuclear hexagram, so they are where the action is most intense generally speaking. And those two lines are between heaven and earth indicating the arena of mankind.

Gene
 

heylise

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Hex.13 is about the unity of beings who leave the same trails.
Could it be that you have been speaking different languages? Like a robin and a sparrow trying to communicate?

It changes to hex.18, which seems to me a sign that at least one of you actually did talk or listen without understanding.

Hex.13, line 1: at the gate, where the level of communication is not very deep (or high, whatever). Then one should keep the necessary distance. Don?t throw yourself all over the other, don?t open the deepest secrets of your heart.
It is important to stay oneself, and not just to be 'human'.

Hex.13, line 2: the line of simple communication. There openness is necessary, flexibility. Readiness to listen, talk and exchange without fixed rules.

Hex.13, line 4: If there are differences of opinion, then don?t attack. You are both a member of the family of man, but being identical is of no use. When the stack of genes is too narrow, an animal-species gets extinct at the first disaster. Humanity meeds many different views, so accept them, without giving up your own. This is the base of peace.

Hex.13, line 5: For relations it is necessary to know where you're at. Make your intentions and feelings known, as soon and as clear as possible. The enemy is always the one you don't know. Talking can turn enemies into friends.

Hexagram 18 tells you that you should examine yourself and find old habits which are not really you. Maybe your friend acted from out those, but since one cannot change someone else, it is always rewarding to look into oneself.

LiSe
 
L

lilian

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Liebe LiSe

Thank you - you hit the nail on the head! When enthusiastic, I tend to get overwhelming and pushy. Makes sense with the core hexagram of 44 - did _you_ say Hexagram 44 is about appropriate behaviour?

So later on when I realise, I get insecure and withdraw. Instead, I should try to do it visaversa.

So it amounts to what you say with the robin and the sparrow. Or like cats and dogs who wag their tail - and both mean something different with it.

Line 2 you say "exchange without fixed rules". "Clan" means structure and fixed rules to you?

Right now I have my individual meaning of the "wall" in line 4: My friend is away and busy. So I still have to wait a little for the clearing up.

Thank you very much
LiLian
 

heylise

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LiLian asked: "Clan" means structure and fixed rules to you?

No, not especially, but (IMO) it does mean a narrow view. Not leaving one's own territory. So the structure and rules are too narrow too, not leaving room for other ways of living or thinking.

LiSe
 

willow

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So with regard to line 2, if your communication is based on a foundation of "us" vs "them" definitions, then it is on shaky ground. If one person begins to grow larger than their definition, others start to have trouble communicating with them. So imagine your friend is more vast and strange than you give her credit for. Imagine perhaps she is (also) the opposite of who/what you think she is.

Wilhelm says that line 4 is about people who are trying darn hard to find a way to fight, but, gosh-darn-it, all those defenses they erected between each other make it hard to get in any blows. So it may be saying that the very fact that you didn't fully understand each other may have protected you from some fierce hurts - the blows didn't land, thank god. To me it conjures up the image of one of those Irish barfights where the two belligerants get their coats off, go at it with words, come to blows, knowing all the while that when they're really about to hurt each other the crowd of onlookers will pull them apart, holding them there, struggling, until they calm down.


Wilhem text:
Nine in the fourth place means:
He climbs up on his wall; he cannot attack.
Good fortune.
Here the reconciliation that follows quarrel mover nearer. It is true that there are still dividing walls on which we stand confronting one another. But the difficulties are too great. We get into straits, and this brings us to our senses. We cannot fight, and therein lies our good fortune.
 
L

lilian

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Hi Willow and all

Thank you for your comments. Now, in hindsight after "we laugh again" everything is easier to understand.

> So imagine your friend is more vast and strange
> than you give her credit for.

You are right. She grew up with a different ethnic bachground, so she has different values. This also matches with LiSe's comment: Whe grew up in a different "clan" with different rules.

> Wilhelm says that line 4 is about people who are trying darn
> hard to find a way to fight, but, gosh-darn-it, all those
> defenses they erected between each other make it hard to get
> in any blows.

Now it seems that for her, our misunderstanding was just a incident, to forget quickly. I was the one to worry, and think in circles how to explain. So my worries were more of a wall than our misunderstanding.

Thanks again to all of you who were of such big help
LiLian
 

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