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MML -- Yet another curious view

re5ga

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One casts and receives a hexagram with four moving lines. Depending upon the book, teacher, or school you adhere to you consider the third line the bellwether, or if there is a ruling line then that's the guiding star, or that special honor is given to the top unchanging line, or there is none that leads you with wisdom and you muddle your way on to the resultant state before settling on the next question. One certainty is that most of you seem as religionists hoping to interact with your divinity. I've seen this continuously over the past 35+ years with all its published bicker: the formalists vs. the no-formers, the rationalists vs. the intuitionists, etc., and none of it furthers my understanding. I get four moving lines and I try determining which changes lead where and from that decide which to accept and those, if any, to avoid. I know that puts me into somewhat the same space as the chap last month who being afraid of the upcoming Friday 13th chose to remain alone in his flat all that day. Unfortunately a wasp flew in through his open kitchen window, stung him, caused a major allergic reaction, and he died. I'm not allergic; this system works.

Trying to get past 3-5,000 years of bicker leads to curious experiments in divination. Agreeing that there is "something" responding but unable to know what, it becomes incumbent upon me to try to find out. For the last week I have sought an innocent query which did not involve me, then meditated on it for two and a half days before casting. I felt I had to see if I would arrive to a response that could be said to satisfy only the question: "How are you Yi?" 11.2.4 >> 55. Peace changing to Abundance.

That done, and satisfying me, there arises, to me, another interesting opportunity: What if those of this community agreed that on a given day all interested would ask the same question, with the understanding that none of the responses were to be posted until the next day for statistical signifigance, if any. The query: "What are you Yi?"

R.
 

hilary

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Just a quick note, Re5ga, as I'm really meant to be doing 3 customers' readings and one newsletter today... joke... What would be the purpose behind that joint enquiry? This is something I ask myself about any question I set out to ask Yi - what difference would it make? I've found that the clearest answers are always the ones that are most needed.
 

re5ga

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I too have other responsibilities such as building a 500-sqft extension plus 150-sqft conservatory to our residence and I mean the actual physical labor from digging the foundation to raising the roof.

But you ask what purpose would be served? I can best reply by quoting from recent (past ten days) threads.

"The Yijing likes the method I described above but says it needs more work."

"The Yijing really liked the 'Transitional Hexagram method'."

"So I asked the Yi - and it agrees with you."

"After many years with it I have no doubt whatsoever it is a window to some "intelligence' ..."

"I also definitely believe that I'm communicating with *something* (i.e. an intelligence of some sort)."

"Does it (Yi) answer regarding the same objective situation differently depending on who's asking?"

"Who knows, maybe it doesn't *want* us to fully understand it - we can only speculate ..."

I can only investigate, and if I recall correctly the Socratic method could be summed as "investigation by interrogation." OTOH, if the questioning of the Yi is felt by you to have no place here then I shall withdraw with thanks for time spent.

R.
 

hilary

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Re5ga, it sounds as though I've offended you, for which I'm very sorry. That's not what I meant to do!
footinmouth.gif


Not clear what we would be here for, if not to ask questions of Yi. What I was actually thinking, in my own woolly way, was that a suggestion of everyone consulting Yi and looking for 'statistical significance' was going to sound to many people like 'testing' the oracle - something some/many/most (?) people here wouldn't want to get involved in. But I didn't think that was actually what you were getting at - so hoped that if you clarified the intention for the reading, you'd get a more favourable response from people. That's all.

As far as my own opinion goes - I would think that Yi is always and only 'something' in relation to the person speaking with it and the moment of the conversation... so I would be very surprised if 10 people asking Yi what it was got fewer than 10 answers.
 
D

demitramn

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Hi Re5ga, welcome
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(...Hilary
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)
your proposal on the surface seems easy enough. each of us would pose the same question to Yi and return here to post the results, right? it's what happens afterward that brings a few questions to mind, so i hope you don't mind considering them. what else would each individual person be expected to do? should each person also venture an interpretation of their results? if not, who would do it? and, how will the overall results be assessed? collaboratively or individually? does it matter? also, in asking all these questions am i complicating and muddying your idea with more than you intended?
wink.gif
 

cal val

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Re5ga...

There's some interesting posts here that might satisfy your curiosity. We tried this experiment once regarding the war in Iraq before it began. There's an interesting example cited in that thread about several people in a Yi Jing class getting the same hexagram a day or two before 9/11. Rather chilling. And there's another example there... about the same kind of situation. I don't have the time to research it for it you, but I don't believe it would be that difficult to find.

Sincerely,

Val
 

cal val

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PS... I love the Yi's answer to "How are you?" It seems like a given you know... considering.

Val
 

dobro p

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"What are you Yi?"

Surely the answer to this question is on a need-to-know basis.

If the oracle works for you, it's useful. Why would you need to know the exact nature of the Yi?

The question also contains the assumption that the Yi is knowable. I doubt that it is.

I'm willing to participate in group studies with this oracle, but I wouldn't participate in this question. But I can think of a lot of arguments that people could come up with to counter what I've just said. :)
 

cal val

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Crap Candid...

I had this whole answer written agreeing with Dobro... you hadn't posted yet. I came back to read the original post again and here is a post from you that says it best in 25 words or less.

Thank you.

I'm going to go sit down and shut up now.

Love,

Val
 
C

candid

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Val,

Sorry ?bout that.

If it?s any consolation, I thought of you this morning in my ?myth approach to change lines? comments. You always refer to Yi as ?they?. So do please share. Do they speak to you individually or always as a collective voice?
 

cal val

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Hi Candid...

I was only kidding with the "crap" crap. Your post was great. Mine was really useless in comparison.

Please do share? Thanks for asking.

Well here goes... since you asked... *grin* The men in grey haven't been in my dreams for quite awhile now. In fact, since I've been back in LA, I haven't had very many dreams along the lines of those revealing life altering dreams I had in Virginia I've only had about four I think, and the were more or less illuminating some of the finer details of "what's going on behind the scenes" that I haven't been able to see.

But when they were in my dreams and visible, they were murmuring to each other in the background while I was watching whatever it was I was supposed to see or involved in whatever it was I was supposed to learn from, and when they would say those words that ended every dream... "It's important you understand this," it seemed like only one of them who spoke for the group was saying it.

The dreams worked in concert with the Yi readings I was doing at the time, so I have no doubt whatsoever that the men in grey are at the very least part of the same, if not one and the same, as the force behind the answers I get from the Yi.

Love ya,

Val
 
C

candid

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Val,

Thanks. So they more or less conferred, and the spokesman issued the command. Sort of reminds me of LiSe?s 43 ? the speaking staff.

Now that I think on it, that?s also how is was with the guys above in the gray lab coats vision, as a small kid; though they appeared to be observing more than offering council. Still, it obviously made a deep impression.

I?d like to begin a thread on myth, as it relates to these gods/goddesses, but my thoughts aren?t clear enough on it yet.

Thanks again.
 

cal val

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Candid...

I don't know if they were conferring or not. For all I know, they could have been discussing the day's NASDAQ activity or the next handicap race at Santa Anita... or maybe my language...

They were still there when the alarm went off, showing me a concept that contradicted my beliefs, I'm NOT a morning person, and I said things like, "You can believe that crap if you want, but I ain't buyin' it, so just get the f*** outta my bedroom and let me sleep 10 more minutes."

I probably didn't start out so foul-mouthed, but by the sixth morning or so, I was pretty fed up. It was about the sixth morning or so... maybe later... that I started thinking about the fact they were relentless and wondering why. That's when it hit me that *I* was the one full of crap... and I posted about it in this forum.

At any rate, they were pretty much observing me observing what they were showing me until it was time to say, "It's important you understand this."

I don't consider this experience or them a myth. I've thought about it a lot. Believe me. Nothing about me would create a "myth" to inculcate something I was so resistant to. And the dreams that followed that first recurring dream... more belief shattering messages. I've thought so much about it, and there is so much I could say, but...

Love ya,

Val
 
C

candid

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Val, a myth isn?t determined by whether something exists in material form or not, but by whether it tells a significant story. The more significant the story, the greater the myth. Consider the most significant events of your life, and how they weave the fabric of your life?s story. Notice how they all fit together neatly when you look back on them. Your myth is how you will be remembered. Seeing and understanding your myth is the greatest revelation anyone can have because it sets you free from its dominance, and also allows you to live it more freely and fully.
 

cal val

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Hi Candid...

Well I was thinking more in terms of the literal dictionary definition of myth... the one we learned in school... a beautiful fabricated story to explain natural phenomenon when our forebearers didn't have the scientific knowledge to explain them. Greek and Norse myths... you know?

I like your definition, lovely really... however I'm still just too literal to be comfortable using the word myself in connection with my experience.

After I wrote that last post to you, I thought some more about it, and I decided to ask the Yi if my experience was real or a myth I created. And they gave me a great answer that might be some fodder for your next "myth" post. 1.3.4 to 61.

Love ya,

Val
 
C

candid

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Hi Val,

The Greek myth we learned in school wasn't the myth of those who lived with those gods in Greece. So which had the more realistic view? I believe it?s those who lived the myth.

Interesting reading. I don't know if you've read LiSe's new interpretation on 1.4, but you may find it interesting as it relates to this.

"Daring to dance in the abyss, leaving certainty. Imagination can loosen the grip of distress. Leaving what is considered rational; venturing to the irrational and the creative is, to awaken in dreams, providing inspiration to proceed."
 

heylise

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?if my experience was real or a myth I created? . . 1.3 and 4 to 61, what a beautiful answer! Heaven?s creativity in your inner truth. Or maybe the other way around.
The lines pass by hexagrams 9 and 10, the two which have to do with (ritual) treading, 10 in the mind and outer reality, 9 in intuition and in the soul.
I also like 1.3: active when the day asks for it, but in the night living according to the demands of the night. Listening to its dangers.

LiSe
 

cal val

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When I got home last night, I used the W/B version as the Yi, of course, knew I would. They are so very clever at making the most of whatever resource I'm using... or going to use. I didn't find the answer so much in the lines as I did in the two hexagrams.

The answer was basically a recapitulation of what I'd said in my post... but from their prespective... which was very interesting to hear. Hexagram 1, of course, is about the ultimate creative... heaven. And hexagram 61 is about how difficult it can be for heaven to get the truth through to someone as intractable and difficult to influence as pigs and fishes...

Uh... that would be me.

The secret to the answer I believe lies in this one sentence:

The character of fu ("truth") is actually the picture of a bird's foot over a fledgling. It suggests the idea of brooding. An egg is hollow. The light-giving power must work to quicken it from outside, but there must be a germ of life within, if life is to be awakened.

The light-giving power must work to quicken it from OUTSIDE... AH YUP...they came from outside me.

I had to laugh when I got to this part though:

Pigs and fishes are the least intelligent of all animals and therefore the most difficult to influence. The force of inner truth must grow great indeed before its influence can extend to such creatures. In dealing with persons as intractable and as difficult to influence as a pig or a fish, the whole secret of success depends on finding the right way of approach.

Okay guys... I know I know I know... I'm sorry... okay? *grin*

Love ya,

Val
 

cal val

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It's interesting reading the responses and seeing how people pick up on different things when reading the Yi... isn't it?

Thank you all.

Love,

Val
 
C

candid

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Hi Val,

I have no idea whether these men are real or not. Either way, they make for an interesting and valuable myth; was my only point.
 
C

cheiron

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Hi Re5ga

Hmm, quite a few of those quotes were from me? (embarrassed)

I too am tired of the 3,000 year bickering. However it appears (reading this site) that the Yi is flexible enough to respond to folk no matter what method they use.


I tend to think of an answer to a question as a complex chord (as in music). There are different harmonics and that different people will tune into, or hear, one or another depending on the time and their disposition.

That is they will pick up on different resonances depending on the level they need to hear (or are able to hear) at that time.

All of this makes me cautious about interpreting readings for others.

Currently I am working on a project to try and systematise how one might do an in depth reading. The idea behind it is not to distil ?the truth? of this method or that but to lay out the steps one might use to do in depth readings in a coherent way.

The idea is to make it straight forward so that folk can progress through the steps, making choices depending on their perceptions, and come out the other end. A bit like a flow chart of methods. I started it for my own benefit and it has raised so many interesting questions?

I am trying to do this by both using the different techniques and by enquiring of the Yi whether this or that is appropriate. Most often I am finding that one does need to be guided by ones ?connection? and that lines might ?resonate? in different ways to the time and question. So rules are perhaps too constricting if followed doggedly.

Some problems I see in a group of us working together online to distil a working ?truth? :

As other folk here have said ? We probably cannot grasp it anyway.

There is probably a complex of meaning (or truths) and a distillation might well be a lowest common denominator.

To distil anything at all I do speed readings - refining a question or an idea over 50 ?

100 questions as the Yi chides and encourages me gives indications as to the direction I should be pursuing?. This could not be done in a group?

All said I find that the method of asking the Yi a ?technical? question and using successive answers to clarify it, works very well. The Yi does often chide my slowness? hints and pushes at times? encourages? groans at me missing the point? and is truly joyous when I do get something approaching what it wants me to see. It is a very coherent dialogue.

But the trouble with technical questions is that they often infer a truth as to the nature of life, the time and the Yi? this, I have found, is a vast plane of many truths (or realities) which often seem to contradict one another as I try to reduce them into things small enough to hold in my mind.

Well those are my thoughts FWTW.

--Kevin
 
C

candid

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Hi Val,

If you wish to continue this topic, let's do so on its own thread. Sorta hi-jacking this one. But then, Re5 isn't exactly utilizing it. Anyway...

Perhaps it might ?feel? more believable coming from an authority on the subject of myth:

(J. Campbell?s contrasting view from Euhemeristic theory, which in so many words, states that deities were amplified human beings)

That?s what?s interesting: that?s the mythologization of an entity. But even if there?s no entity there, that mythological motif could come in a dream [or vision], and then the dream becomes historicized.
 

cal val

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Hi Candid

I'm not interested in continuing this really... I DO want to start another thread, but not about this... about hexagram 43. I look forward to reading your "myth" thread though... I might even have something to contribute to that.

I do want to clear up any misunderstanding, however, right here where it exists.

I'm sorry if you misunderstood. I understand you were just proffering your thoughts. Thank you! I enjoyed reading them. And so was I... proffering mine. Nothing I said was meant to negate your beliefs, and I know you certainly weren't trying to negate mine. You know better *wry grin* I'm okay with whatever you believe. Viva la difference. Like I've said many times before... for each person on earth (6-1/2 billion), there's a unique and different belief system... and they're all ever changing, and they're all built on our own experiences... for our own reasons... just like I like it! *grin*

Love ya!

Val
 
C

candid

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Val, oh all right. Perhaps I'll catch the next dance with you.

I doubt I'll be starting a thread on myth. One, I'm no authority on the subject, other than regarding my own personal myth. And two, I doubt many care to discuss it.

I'll be looking for your 43 thread.
 

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