Mothers relationship 20 to 3

[butterfly spider]

I think that. I do not need guidance on my daughter. I am feeling very positive on this

With The position of my mother - oh no nearly as such. She is 82 - lives with my autistic brother of 56 and is so utterly utterly self absorbed. My son aged 15 calls her the evil one ....although she probably has unresolved mental issues ... Possibly.

I spoke to her tonight about visiting my unwell daughter. She has not visited her in 9 years - in fact she has t done anything positive for about 20. It is not just about contact physically - although at least once would be nice.


I asked the I Ching how to deal with her - especially with her granddaughter who is unwell. She said tonight that she is an unwell 82 year old and that she can't be doing with problems. This reading seems alien to me

Has anyone any clues from the reading
It is a bit sad really

 

[Trojina]

I'll come back but first I'm going to tell you off . You put '20 to 3' so that means anyone who answers must go find a pen and paper to draw the hexagrams to find out what lines you got. I can't do it in my head anyway...so you need to say what lines are moving because I am not getting up from my seat to find a pen yet.


Consider yourself reprimanded

It's a habit you just got into cos you did it in another thread somewhere...You need to know what lines are moving before posting because if you don't know then you won't have given your answer any thought....

 

[ginnie]

20.1.6 > 3. There I've done the lines for you . . .

Yi thinks you are asking this question in a naive way. Perhaps you have taken a superficial attitude toward the whole thing and get pleasure out of listing all the things she has done wrong, from your point of view.

 

[Trojina]

I asked how to deal with her - especially with her granddaughter who is unwell. She said tonight that she is an unwell 82 year old and that she can't be doing with problems. This reading seems alien to me

Purely on a practical level she's right. Can an 82 year old really help much with your 22 year old daughter when she is this ill ? In fact if she did visit it might make everything 10 times worse and I feel your answer almost alludes to this. Your daughter physically assaults you so how would adding an 82 year old to the mix help ?

20 refers to needing to get a distance to see what one cannot always see. 3 is the chaos of new beginnings, the as yet unformed. I think (sorry to everyone who already heard this) with lines 1 and 6 moving the relating hexagram comes to the fore so overall your way through this is to realise how things are in your family set up now will not always be so (to state the obvious). Perhaps one whole generation is coming to an end (hers) and if this is so then a new way of being a family needs to emerge and you cannot make it emerge in 3, you have to live in the chaos of the darkness where things are born.


How strange to get 3 here ? That is something to think about. With lines 1 and 6 moving you already 'did' the whole of 20...you've scanned, you've looked back, you've pondered, you've assessed....and having done all that through the boundaries of 20 comes hexagram 3 ? What is trying to form here do you think ?

I don't know and you may not know...but it might help you to know that from a wider perspective (20) there's a birth of some kind ...Not a birth where the baby is ready made....it's embryonic, all still in flux...So what is the advice in 3 ? You don't make firm plans, you explore, you get helpers, you are patient when things seem foggy and unformed.

From a 20 perspective your mother is just a cog in the wheel of your life and your daughter's life...Maybe rather than focus on the past now consider what is to come more, what is still forming, what is still unknown ? You've shared a lot of what you know about the family perhaps it is time to see what you don't know...what you don't know because it isn't made yet because you are still making it ..............

 

[goddessliss]

Lead by example butterflyspider - contemplation Hex 20 through higher principles which means stop blaming others for what you consider to be their flaws.

Just because she may live in denial of whatever doesn't mean you have to follow suit - Line 1 - look to self first.

By contemplating the truth but removing your emotional attachment to it will stop you bothering yourself about her or what she does/doesn't do - Line 6.

It's her money not yours and how she chooses to be with it has got nothing to do with you. Either accept the way she is or don't but there's no need to stay 'plugged' into it.
Personally I found my mothers behaviour appalling particularly towards me so years ago I told her to not bother contacting me again - now she's a bitter old woman wallowing in her own BS because she's no longer got me to take it out on. Do I care? No because being detached from her issues freed me up to allow my heart to Love. - Liss

 

[butterfly spider]

Thank you both
I have tried so hard to understand why someone wouldn't want to be with their grandchildren or help. It is almost pathological - I have not has much to so with her - which is a pity. It's just that I always think that she will miraculously change - be nice be the grandmother to her grandchildren. But it never happens. I just feel that I should give her the benefit of the doubt

I am being naive ... Big time. At 82 she will not change -
Nor should I expect her to. She is lonely and wants attention but no one feels the inclination to ... Certainly my two well children don't.

I have really tried to distance but I thought that contact would help heal my daughter - and heal the wounds -

Over the past 28 years I have only ever come to grief on contact with my mother so perhaps I need to close the door on this and let the cogs of time work their magic.

Sorry if I didn't put down the exact casting. It is when I do the online reading - it makes it too easy to not use the brain .much love and thank you for your thoughts.

 

[goddessliss]

It's so sad with these sorts of happenings butterflyspider - it took me a long time to realise I had to let go and I think it's sad that my mother is like this but I don't feel sad anymore and that's the difference - it's not my stuff.
I used to play the piano quite well, my middle son is a very accomplished musician in more ways than one and my oldest son has a wonderful voice and a couple of years ago he asked his grandmother(my mother) if she would like him to sing her Happy Birthday. She said 'No, noone in our family is musical enough to sing or play anything' '!!!!

 

[altair139]

What was the question again? i will try to look into it but 3 means there will definitely be difficulty. Persevere further

 

[butterfly spider]

Hello
The question was how do I deal with my mother at the moment - really wanting her to help my unwell daughter who would like to see her. Thank you for asking

 

[butterfly spider]

This site is obviously brilliant in many ways. However one if the most wonderful aspects is when someone (living the otherwise of the Globe) has similar experiences.

Thank you

 

[altair139]

20 usually depicts observation from afar, or from a higher vantage point. It shows you yourself viewing your mother's problem with contemplation. You are aware of it and not in denial.
Line 1 shows an immature view about this situation. What's the source of your mother's selfishness? Everything happened for a reason and you have to find out. Or else your child will just keep calling her evil. This suits your child's view too.
Line 6 on the other hand shows that you have a good understanding of the problem now. You can see the big picture behind your mother's behavior.
Note by Siu: The sage, who is living outside the routine of the world, contemplates his own character, not as an isolated ego manifestation, but in relation to the laws of life. He judges freedom from blame to be the highest good.

Hex 3 however shows a difficult situation, but only at the beginning. You understood the situation but now work has to be done. With perseverance things will likely to turn out well. This could be about the relationship between your mother and your children. Dont give up, persevere further.

 

[Trojina]

As I understand it there is good evidence that bipolar is genetically passed on. That is to say one is not bound to get it because someone in the family has it, but one is certainly predisposed to it. Given that isn't it likely your mother has the same disorder that your daughter has, it just manifests slightly differently. That would explain the weird comments she made when your son was in your arms perhaps.

Also you yourself may have such tendencies ? I don't know....all I'm saying is if your mother has the same illness as your daughter then that is an explanation for her behaviour.

This puzzles me

The question was how do I deal with my mother at the moment - really wanting her to help my unwell daughter who would like to see her

I can't see how she can help your daughter who is violent. She is 82 years old and she says ill. Why would she put herself in that situation if you can't. You can't go there because you will get hit so how can your 82 year old sick mother go there. And even if she could go there how would it help your daughter ?

 

[butterfly spider]

It may appear churlish and very niaive to expect her to visit - even if she is sometimes only 15 min bus ride or taxi away. I think that I was just hoping rather that she would just like to help in some way. It is me who is being foolish here. I have been through the same scenario for so long - asking her of she wanted to go to see the children come over for lunch visit etc.

There is nothing I can do to change things here - I have to accept it and persevere with what is in front of me. There were things that happened to her possibly and she may herself have. Mental illness. Perhaps that is what I cannot accept.

I do not think I have bipolar - but I need to say NO to my mother. Whenever I have asked the I Ching bout her it has always told me to be gentle and kind. I have been. I feel sorry for her of course. But that doesn't mean I have to accept what she is like. You see I so understand but need to accept what is there. Time for me to step back and say - enough

 

[butterfly spider]

I had decided not to cast for a while let things settle be happy and wait

However Trojina you made me question the relationship with my mother - do I too have an illness. The question was am I to blame how can I help?

I got 47 UC. Definitely confined here ...

 

[butterfly spider]

As a rider to this I have just been talking to my son. He has said that anyone who can be so utterly disgusting must have mental health issues - rather like the way his sister is with me. He said that there was a difference between people shouting and saying unkind things in anger and saying things when they are mentally unwell. He said that his Nan wasn't evil - she was just very ill. He said that I should have realised this when I was younger .... How did it take you so long to fathom this out Mum he said

Perhaps I need to reevaluate this one ....
Possibly why in 40 years the I Ching has said be gentle and kind ....


My daughter has just phoned and said that she needs me this weekend - but I am not going because I am with my son. I am having a glass of wine and we will be watching Daredevil and I am looking forward to it



Xx

 

[Trojina]

He said that there was a difference between people shouting and saying unkind things in anger and saying things when they are mentally unwell. He said that his Nan wasn't evil - she was just very ill. He said that I should have realised this when I was younger .... How did it take you so long to fathom this out Mum he said. The way my Nan is the way she talks and the way she treats us is not right - you must know that....

Yes. In a recent PM to me you said something about her that indicated she was clearly mentally ill. So you do know she's mentally ill. It seems you almost conceal that fact from yourself now and then. Perhaps you couldn't process it when younger....as in whether she is ill or not she is still nasty to you and that is your reality. However now I think it's helpful to you to keep in mind how ill she is and not go wishing she would come and visit your daughter.

However Trojina you made me question the relationship with my mother - do I too have an illness. The question was am I to blame how can I help here

You have rolled 2 separate questions in to one. But blame ? I don't know what it has to with blame. Your mother is mentally ill with bipolar or something and so is your daughter. Whether you have bipolar tendencies I don't know...not qualified to say, however when I read this

My daughter has just phoned and said that she needs her mother

No - I am having a glass of wine with my son and we are going to watch daredevil later after he has finished orchestra. .. Life is actually very good

...there's a clear reality split there that won't feel comfortable for long. You say your daughter called needing you but you aren't going and life is good.


Life is neither all good or all bad. The call won't be making you feel good, you can't quash that feeling by just saying 'life is good'. It's good and it's bad. I'm saying this now to warn you you've been here before...in exactly this same place. You say you aren't going then the next thing we hear is you are on your way. You get there, she hits you, you come back and it all starts again. Perhaps to avoid that pattern you might avoid this black/white pattern of thought ? Also remembering you cannot actually help her mentally.

I'm way way out of my depth here but I'm aware you might get ready to go to her any moment. One reason I hope you don't is it seems to me your son needs a stable home...He sounds very sensible but he is only 15 years old and rushing down there yet again won't help if past history is anything to go by.


Disclaimer. I am not a social worker so the above comments are merely based on observation of patterns witnessed to date. We have to live with mixed feelings and it's hard. Maybe recognising how hard it is having different feelings at the same time may prevent you jumping on a bus when the call to go to her gets too strong.

You get my drift ?

Like you either tend to say

a. life is good, I am not going

or

b. I have to go,,,it's no good I must go.


I'm thinking rather than these 2 extremes you could practise feeling extremely uncomfortable that you cannot go whilst at the same time just getting on with your own life where you are ? That way you might find a better balance and not be tempted to rush to her aid.

 

[butterfly spider]

No I am not rushing to see my daughter I am with my son and things are really positive
I have left her in the capable hands if the acute mental health team
She phoned me to ask me to go and see her and I said No
Of course I have the urge to go and help - age is my daughter and it is like a mother bird with a fledgling out of the neat
Of course my mother has issues - that is not in question

The I Ching has been incredibly useful in its responses - the most important being that I need to step back not react and wait (hex 5). Some things are beyond the remit of one person to solve.

I need to relax take a step back and enjoy life with my son as it is in anyone moment. It is not my job to alter someone's journey - I can guide and give advise - but ultimately it is their journey

I am sitting down with my son tonight and we are laughing and enjoying the evening. Perhaps I should be
With my daughter but I have made a choice to step back and savour the precious minutes of the day

X

 

[goddessliss]

Only a mother knows what is best for her children and there's a need to be consciously aware that the one who is 'sick', whatever the cause, doesn't get all the attention to the detriment of the other children.
- Liss

 

[butterfly spider]

Thank you all for your thoughts

I will give an update when things have moved on....
X