My situation...

[unsubscribed_cm]

This is very hard to share. Very hard.
And extreemly disturbing and dark to me.

I have been cultivating my spiritual life with the Yijing Scripture for about a year now.

About a month or 2 or 3 ago I asked it about how to increase mastery over myself and my life. It showed me the Archetype for hexagram 18. KU.

The Translation I have (Stephen Karcher, 2002) says KU is: Corruption, renovation, perversion, decay, negative effects of the past, of parents on children, black sexual magic, renew, renovate, new begining.

I was litterly struck dumb by this. I asked it to clarify more, what was this corruption of the past revering to exactly. It gave me the Hexagram of Departure, I can't find that one now, but I definalty got the clear message that it was refering to the conflict that happened in the past when I was moving out of my parents house, and which they made it very difficult to do, by keep making and breaking and changing their minds, and trying to direct me in where to go. It was a very bad situation, I actually got in a fist fight with my dad after he started pushing me across the room, another time he chased me down the hallway tackled me and threw me out the door and then many verbal arguments with my parents. It was very very bad. And only becuase I tried to maintain my own personal bounderies.

I got many feelings of sexual energy in the household during that hell.
Now I understand that they use this energy to control me.

They have used it again.

I was over at my parents place and my mother, was suffing me with negative enegies while I was simply doing my best to be courteious and well mannered. Finnally while sitting down on the couch and watching a show. I felt very violated sexuallly by her, and had the most intense and most evil and vile nightmerish experience I can't even imagine. It was all done invisibly, for what was going on on the surface was simple edicqutte, while underneath it I was moved to the most intense and devilish expereince of my entire life.

I felt like I was being raped and pulled in to my mothers sexual power. It was so appalling and intense I did nothing. I just sat there in silence and finnaly after it faded away I left in haste.

I ran home and asked the Yijing what happened:
"What just happened to me at my parents house?"
It replied.

#41
Diminishing
Mountian over lake

So I diminished. I centered myself and sacrificed my immediate desires as thoroughly as I could. Then an hour later. I decided to ask a general question.

"Any comments for the moment?"
it replied.

#45
Clustering.
Lake over earth.

And the changing line of importance told me straight out (change 5):

No need for more sacrificing. Keep exploring this position by asking the oracle.

So I asked again.
"What happened at my parents house that was so traumatic but invisible yet the most intense and mind twisting experience I've ever had sober?"

It replied.

#21
Gnawing Bite.

And changing line 3:

Gnawing seasoned meat
Meeting poison
The small distressed
Without fault

Meeting poison
situation not appropriate indeed.

Then convinced it may be what I was still weary about I asked:

"Was it black sexual magic relating to hexagram 18 ku?"

it replied.

#51
Shake.

Sexual energy.

Then I asked:
"What should I do to cleanse myself of this corruption?"

It replied.

#44
Coupling

Welcome, encounter, open yourself to, all forms of sexual intercourse, don't grasp things, act through yin.

Changing lines: 1 and 3

Changing line 1: Don't act this impulse out. If you have a plan to act, the way will close.
Changing line 3:

Image:
The sacrum without flesh
one moves the resting place moreover
adversity.
without the great: fault

one moves the resting place moreover
moving not yet hauling along indeed.

Feeling pretty ****ing blown out of the water. I decided I would talk to my good friend who is a psychedelic head and very much like me (a virgo) and he let me spend the night at his place.

I also confirmed this interpretation 2 other hexagrams.
The idea to leave and have no worries, and sleep elsewhere that night.

Finally I asked it just this evening:

"What should I do to clense myself from the corruption from my mother.

It replied

#18
Corruption, Ku
with changing lines 3 and 4.

finally I asked it:
"How should I relate to my parents now?
It replied.

# 7
Legion

Armies, Martial arts master, soldiers, use of force.
Changing line 1


....

 

[bruce_g]

Pacman,

I have no immediate response to your experience, don’t even known if you’re asking for one, but thank you for daring to be transparent. Oh, wait, I do have one comment. Your experience isn’t vile, neither are you. Sexual tension between mother and son isn’t as unusual as you might think. No, I’m not going to get all Freudian on you, but will just say, you’re not crazy.

 

[unsubscribed_cm]

... I can't agree with that. I must say this experience is extremely vile, the most appalling i've ever had. I feel like she is inside me. It is very hidious! And she knows it. The witch!

I have nobody to turn to, hardly anyone even recognizes oracles or energies, or magics as a "real" problem or issue. Your acceptance of it is very unexpected and mindblowing. I really have never even imagined such a thing could exist, I am a virgo a perfectionist and a purist and very much identify myself with the mountian trigram.

This seems so horrible to me. So appalling. So disgusting so unspeakable and unthinkable. I'm still a virgin! This is unacceptable and just too much!

My Alchemy will have to break the spell.
I don't ever want to see them again.
I must fight them with everything I've got.

How can anyone be so dispickable?! How is that possible?

 

[bruce_g]

Well, ok, guess I don't understand it then. Or maybe I just projected my own experience into yours. My apologies.

 

[heylise]

Hex.18 is about what you feel in you, which has to be cleaned up and dealt with. Not especially about anyone being evil. I think that is what Bruce meant, that neither you or your mother is evil.

If you are being held back by parents, but also feel that your health lies in being free and standing on your own, that feels like evil. And if you let it go on, then it is indeed. If you can cut through the ties, not by turning against your parents, but by becoming a totally free person yourself, then you remove that evil. That is the way to conquer it.

Don't try to focus on it and fight it. Focus on yourself, and fight for a strong and free life for yourself.

Your parents try to 41, decrease, you, maybe because they want to keep you. As child, or in control, or for having something for themselves in their life. Whatever, I don't know. But you need to live your own full life. Gather your forces, the ones which belong to you. Hex. 45 has to do with getting things in an organic functioning way around you. Either with you as center, or you as one of the 'planets' which move around a center which you find valuable.

21. It might very well be, that in you something has changed in a quite sudden way, an insight, that you are not their child anymore, but that you absolutely have to stand in your own power, mentally. Many people never get that insight, they stay more of less child for their entire life. Many men and women still behave like teenagers, even when they are well beyond 50 years of age. Others grow slowly toward an independent mind. I think for you it came in one sudden flash. Biting through 'something' and seeing how poisonous it is.

I think 51 as answer to "Was it black sexual magic relating to hexagram 18 ku?" is a clear "no". Hex.51 has to do with new creative energy, things which germinate. I think it refers to your own new growth.

"What should I do to cleanse myself of this corruption?"
This answer, 44, made me smile. The Yi is quite straightforward. Find your own mate, your own sexual power, explore all these things for yourself, with your own conditions and your own pleasure. In all 'primitive' societies', growing up and leaving your parents is directly related to growing up sexually. And of course in our modern world, it still is, even though it seems sometimes hidden behind a job or a study.
But of course Yi is wise enough, not to tell you, to go ahead and jump right into it. Be careful, 44.1, and don't expect it to be never-ending bliss 44.3. Changing to 10: tread in a wise way.

How to cleanse yourself? Well, 18 is precisely the hexagram which deals with cleansing yourself from past influences, especially from parents... It is not necessarily about black magic, it is only magic as long as you don't recognize it yet. Once you know where it comes from, you see it as it is. Ideas or habits you got from them, but which are not really like you. There are lots of things in you, which you did not yet make truly your own. And this is not a case of kicking those things out and that's that. Usually it is a life-long task. And once you learn how rewarding it is, every time you find again a little truth which is "really you", your truth, then you don't mind that it takes so many years.

Hexagram 7 tells you, to defend your own territory. But also, to create it, to create your own 'country'. Hex. 7 is also the complete set of all your skills, brought in harmony together. Your own army, with which you make your own life in this big world.

LiSe

 

[unsubscribed_cm]

Thanks LiSe, for you interpretation.
It looks like you see things as happening on a larger time scale
While I am looking at them and interpreting them on a much smaller and immediate time scale.
I mean, in my interpretation of #51 it says: sexual energy. Which is yes a new creative force.

It does start out saying:
Shake comming: Shreiking.
Afterwards: Laughing.

---

Also I Decided to look the subject up on the internet, and found a book titled: "Mother Son Incest, the unthinkable". I then asked the Yijing if I should give this book to her for christmas. ...
It said:

Gradual Advance
#53
with changing line 5.

Commentary (line 5):
"This is the penultimate step, where your creative energy makes contact with the ancestors and the guaridan spirits. This takes time, but when it is finished nothign will stop you. Have no fears, the way is open. "

So this to me says it is apart of the right thing to do, but the last thing to go for in a series of gradual changes.

Your interpretation seems positive and liberating
while mine seems negative and binding,
But it is also how I have reacted to this experience.
I took the hexagram #44 as:
Imagine yourself in all sexual intercourses with your mother.

So I did that... in a sort of "take the plunge" imaginative rage,
But I wanted to do anything to break the spell it had on me...
-
This situation, seemed to activate old feelings of self-destruction
I've gone through a depression, and am familiear with that.
I suppose these negative effects of self-destruction arising from this
strange experience was real, and is still with me.

because on the commentary it said:

"You are isolated and have been punished or hurt.
Move to a new place. You will have to confront your past, but don't give in!"

Now that makes sense. I did give in. I gave in to the negative impulse of self-destruction.
Which is what always comes in the most intense negative experiences of my life.
I imagined myself having all sorts of sexual intercourse with my mother, while at the same time
murdering her in the most grusume ways possible.
I wanted to get back at her for forcing me to do this.

But now I see it is not what this message meant.
But then how is one to get the clear message when it has
to pass through your clouded mind?

I see it says "but don't give in"
But i did.
I think maybe I did the wrong thing,
and scared my mind now.
I really feel defiled.

I'm going to ask it about this mistake ASAP.

---

I really feel like I need forgiveness, for doing that.
Purification, renovation. Complete spiritual and mental clensing.

...

 

[unsubscribed_cm]

Bruce_g I am sorry for sounding like I was fighting back against you.
In fact you gave me what I most needed. Forgiveness.
But I haven't forgiven myself yet. So, I thank you for what you wrote.
Sorry if I offended you.

 

[bruce_g]

Bruce_g I am sorry for sounding like I was fighting back against you.
In fact you gave me what I most needed. Forgiveness.
But I haven't forgiven myself yet. So, I thank you for what you wrote.
Sorry if I offended you.

Naw, I'm not offended. I shouldn't have assumed to understand the depth of your experience. My dad was very heavy handed; we fought all the time. And my mom, well, what can I say? She was a hottie. It can all get pretty confusing for an adolescent lad.

See if this helps your 18 process:
http://changingminds.org/disciplines/psychoanalysis/concepts/oedipus_complex.htm
http://www.ottorank.com/oed.htm

 

[unsubscribed_cm]

Well I forgive you then. =)
The world is confusing.
We are not good at working through it.
The public and insitutional space works to spread
more confusion instead of clarify.
It is not your fault. Culture and ideology are not our friends. =)
Thats why I appreciate the tao, because it is beyond ideology. =)

"the way that can be told, is not the enduring way"

Tao Te Ching #1

 

[unsubscribed_cm]

but my situation is diffent
I feel advances from my mother.
I in no way have a Odipus complex towards my mother.
I think she is disgusting and vile, and rotten, fat stupid, festering, and sagging.

I think she is acting this way it to piss me off and repel me. She keeps trying to force me into independence without me getting there on my own. Constantly says things like "You need to get off our payroll!"
This is very repelling, but I plan to go to school and get a eduacation, they won 't pay for it. They are telling me they are going to cut me off with what they do finnancially very soon.

I just moved out and dont' have a job yet that can pay all the bills. I am working towards indedpendence, while all they do is bind me more and more.

Now the thing uses black sexual magic. I feel it. And I am appalled. I have said nothing to them about this.
They would find it to be some sort of perverted, power trip. Because that is how they think, when it suits them.

 

[bruce_g]

Well I forgive you then. =)
The world is confusing.
We are not good at working through it.
The public and insitutional space works to spread
more confusion instead of clarify.
It is not your fault. Culture and ideology are not our friends. =)
Thats why I appreciate the tao, because it is beyond ideology. =)

"the way that can be told, is not the enduring way"

Tao Te Ching #1

True nuff, but idealism can also mask our roots of bitterness. Better to discover them than to pretend they don’t exist. Then we are free to move with the tao unencumbered.

 

[autumn]

What happened? 41- emptying. If you imagine yourself full of potential energy, then diminishing tension-that's what happened. Your inner tension reached a breaking point, and you ended up emotionally projecting the expereince of being psychologically raped.

The hexagram is unchanging, which is a clue that its origins are peculiar to your inner state, and are not about what’s going on in the world.

You asked a very similar question, and received 21.3. Line 3 refers to old tensions. 21 is forcing your way through those old tensions to the root poison. This supports 41 as an emotional projection.

What’s going on is about the past. 21.3, 41, and 18 all support that. 44 suggests a new level of awareness of your emotional state. Meeting the hidden impulses and accepting their gifts, refusing their temptations.

Right now, quite frankly, what’s being released in you is so powerful it’s causing fleeting delusions. There is something about your old way of being connected to your parents that is being forcefully expelled. Psychologically owning what is being expelled is too threatening for you right now, and so it feels like you are being controlled by magic.

But “magic” is just energy. We are all energy. You don’t have to approach it from the perspective of feeling out of control and hexed. You can go through this process of changing your energetic connection to your parents and be in control of what’s going on.

This process of consulting an oracle is sometimes very difficult to do for oneself. There’s a point where what you see in the answers melds with inner projections. This especially happens when there is a great deal of inner turmoil.

The corruption of 18 you’re being directed to correct isn’t nearly as bad as you fear. All it means is that something is out of balance. Something from your past relationships (probably with your parents) is affecting you. It doesn’t mean you are corrupt. Not at all- in fact, the corruption of 18 is something everyone deals with in different situations throughout life. It’s just dis-entangling from unhealthy ways of relating to people and understanding yourself.

 

[nicky_p]

Hi Pacman,

First, sharing this must be so difficult – to put it into words can be distressing.

I did give in. I gave in to the negative impulse of self-destruction.
Which is what always comes in the most intense negative experiences of my life.
I imagined myself having all sorts of sexual intercourse with my mother, while at the same time
murdering her in the most grusume ways possible.
I wanted to get back at her for forcing me to do this.

But now I see it is not what this message meant.
But then how is one to get the clear message when it has
to pass through your clouded mind?

I see it says "but don't give in"
But i did.
I think maybe I did the wrong thing,
and scared my mind now.
I really feel defiled.

I'm going to ask it about this mistake ASAP.

---

I really feel like I need forgiveness, for doing that.
Purification, renovation. Complete spiritual and mental clensing.

...

Please don’t be too hard on yourself for giving into this. I ask this because I’ve done the same. And putting it into words or acknowledging these thoughts can make you sound and feel all wrong somehow but maybe in sharing these things with other people, in bringing almost taboo subjects into the light, can reassure you that it’s not ‘wrong’ or a mistake and help you find ways that are more helpful and less distressing. There was a man in my life that I have felt this way about because he did similar things to me. I have never felt hate so intense and it is scary to hate someone so much that you can taste blood and feel wrong for doing it. And to stop the thoughts I went down the self-destructive route of self-harm and drugs. The way I cleansed was to write everything down. I wrote down my dreams and my thoughts. No matter how dark or ugly I emptied them onto paper until I didn’t feel the need to any more. Even after I’d stopped writing I kept the book afterwards but I found it too hard to look at it. Reading it made me cry so after about a year I threw it away – I didn’t need it any more. I still have to remind myself to forgive myself. I didn’t fight and sometimes I give myself hard time for it but not as much anymore – it fades. I’m not saying that what happened or how you feel is right or wrong – for me that doesn’t help. I’m hoping by sharing this I can give you some light at the end of the tunnel – the intensity of these feelings doesn’t last forever if you can find a way that suits you to let them out without acting on them.
Take care of yourself
Nicky

 

[unsubscribed_cm]

What happened? 41- emptying. If you imagine yourself full of potential energy, then diminishing tension-that's what happened. Your inner tension reached a breaking point, and you ended up emotionally projecting the expereince of being psychologically raped.

The hexagram is unchanging, which is a clue that its origins are peculiar to your inner state, and are not about what’s going on in the world.

You asked a very similar question, and received 21.3. Line 3 refers to old tensions. 21 is forcing your way through those old tensions to the root poison. This supports 41 as an emotional projection.

What’s going on is about the past. 21.3, 41, and 18 all support that. 44 suggests a new level of awareness of your emotional state. Meeting the hidden impulses and accepting their gifts, refusing their temptations.

Right now, quite frankly, what’s being released in you is so powerful it’s causing fleeting delusions. There is something about your old way of being connected to your parents that is being forcefully expelled. Psychologically owning what is being expelled is too threatening for you right now, and so it feels like you are being controlled by magic.

But “magic” is just energy. We are all energy. You don’t have to approach it from the perspective of feeling out of control and hexed. You can go through this process of changing your energetic connection to your parents and be in control of what’s going on.

This process of consulting an oracle is sometimes very difficult to do for oneself. There’s a point where what you see in the answers melds with inner projections. This especially happens when there is a great deal of inner turmoil.

The corruption of 18 you’re being directed to correct isn’t nearly as bad as you fear. All it means is that something is out of balance. Something from your past relationships (probably with your parents) is affecting you. It doesn’t mean you are corrupt. Not at all- in fact, the corruption of 18 is something everyone deals with in different situations throughout life. It’s just dis-entangling from unhealthy ways of relating to people and understanding yourself.

I thankyou for what you've said. I think your probably right. I think I also use this oracle too much. ... It 's lost it's effectiveness, now all it does is confuse me. It's like i've OD on yijing. Any addiction is dangerous. I think what you say is correct. And I thank myself for not ever acting in a direct way on these delusions... and I thank god too...

I am a lonely guy though I always thought the Yijing could be my best friend.
I've been casting it whenever have any question in mind.
I used to cast it only 1 every week, and before that 1 a month or 1 every 2 weeks.
Now I use it just too much. I think I better just lay off it a bit...

But you seem to understand these symbols allot better Autumn. I used to understand them, but now they just confuse me. I think I take it too seriously. It's no replacement for a real breathing human being. but I wanted it to be.

thanks again.

 

[unsubscribed_cm]

Hi Pacman,

First, sharing this must be so difficult – to put it into words can be distressing.



Please don’t be too hard on yourself for giving into this. I ask this because I’ve done the same. And putting it into words or acknowledging these thoughts can make you sound and feel all wrong somehow but maybe in sharing these things with other people, in bringing almost taboo subjects into the light, can reassure you that it’s not ‘wrong’ or a mistake and help you find ways that are more helpful and less distressing. There was a man in my life that I have felt this way about because he did similar things to me. I have never felt hate so intense and it is scary to hate someone so much that you can taste blood and feel wrong for doing it. And to stop the thoughts I went down the self-destructive route of self-harm and drugs. The way I cleansed was to write everything down. I wrote down my dreams and my thoughts. No matter how dark or ugly I emptied them onto paper until I didn’t feel the need to any more. Even after I’d stopped writing I kept the book afterwards but I found it too hard to look at it. Reading it made me cry so after about a year I threw it away – I didn’t need it any more. I still have to remind myself to forgive myself. I didn’t fight and sometimes I give myself hard time for it but not as much anymore – it fades. I’m not saying that what happened or how you feel is right or wrong – for me that doesn’t help. I’m hoping by sharing this I can give you some light at the end of the tunnel – the intensity of these feelings doesn’t last forever if you can find a way that suits you to let them out without acting on them.
Take care of yourself
Nicky

Thankyou Nikcy for sharing that. I will try not to punish myself anymore for these mistakes. I remember now, that negative emotions are just a downward spiral. Best to try to balance yourself and start moving upward or forward again.
It is easy to punish yourself for these things. And it feels like the right thing to do at the time of the experience. ....

I'm just so gald that there are people I can talk to. Of course i'm not a very worldly person anyway. But last I looked the world was really close-minded and boundery defined.
My bounderies are too thick right now personally.
I need to let this all settle in...

... It's hard. I can move past it.
In fact I already have. I have visited my parents today and although the same feeling came up I did not let myself focus on it. I don't know what it is. But it seems very nasty, and must be my own fault. Nevertheless I will not punish myself for it... I will go to thanksgiving tomorrow and not let these ghosts delude me into negative actions, or treatments of other people. My parents are still nice people. It is only my perception of them that has changed.

I can't read these symbols anymore...
I feel very overwhelmed right now...
When will it calm down I don't know.
My life is just changing so fast and yet not fast enough. It's a little scary.

 

[unsubscribed_cm]

I get it.

 

[unsubscribed_cm]

it is not a sexual arousal.
it is more a dreading and putrid disgusting feeling of weariness of it.
And then a rage and sick feeling when it comes.
I cannot believe that my mother is sexually attracted to me.
I cannot believe that I am sexually attracted to my mother.
I have never noticed it before, in the 23 years of living around them... i was told by the oracle.
I also never noticed it before the black drama with my parents, When I was trying to move out (under their suggestion and direction of funding) and pick my own place to live instead of what they wanted, it got very infuriating...
There must be some other 3rd explanation.
My parents are still nice people... it's just my perception of them that has changed.
...

I remember when I was trying to move out, all i could think of is how I would finally be able to find a sexual partner. But that living in my parents house impeded this. Yet I needed them to pay for my bills when i moved out.

Perhaps my over sexual aggressive energy got caught up and tangled into the situation. Maybe what I'm picking up is my negative energy that was motivated by sexuality still floating around in the relationship between my parents and I.

The relationship of the presant is based on the foundation of the past - obviously.

"Things are the way they are, because they were the way they were" - Rupert Sheldrake (Fonder of Morhpic Resonnace Theory)

If this is possible. That a past trauma, motivated by primal energies, can carry it's baggage of energetic signature into the future, than this must be the explanation for my situation.

This saves face for me, and my parents...
Why oh why was it so elusive... It is a wild theory I have come up with.. but it makes sense.
It's been almost a year now. I feel like crying about it.

Now I feel that i've found the answer.
I feel like i'm reconnecting with my body and reality again.
Perhaps there is still more to unravel.
I'm going to see a Native South American Shaman tomorrow,
I think talking to him today about this, and talking to you all online, discussing it with everyone I have, has finnaly brought it to light... but again there may still be more to unravel.