...life can be translucent

Menu

Need constructive input...

confucius

visitor
Joined
Jul 12, 2006
Messages
199
Reaction score
0
Etymology of the ideogram Kun.2





The ideogram used to represent Kun.2 is twofold. The element on the left is a general application of expressions concerning the ground, the Earth or the soil. It is here compressed, as is always the case when it is encountered in a composite figure. Its ancient purpose was to illustrate a raised stone, a sort of megalithic altar, a pedestal, used in ceremonies of worship of the Earth. This ancient origin, more spiritual than it was agricultural, was a tribute to the fertile virtues of the Earth and all the Yin analogies it entails, a natural feature in a culture renown for promoting a sedentary lifestyle and its attachment to the land. In the context on the Yi Jing, this would partially explain why it is often encountered as part of the highly favorable mantic appreciation Opportunity.

On the right is a rather simple graphic whose global meaning expresses the idea of continuous extension. One of its archaic representations, suggesting two hands pulling a rope in opposite directions, illustrated the concerting action of two dialectic forces. As it is presented here it suggests the infinite extension of the germinating power originating from the Earth.

On the silk manuscript found in 1974 at Ma Wang Dui, the ideogram used to illustrate this hexagram is different. It was, at this point and time, called Waterway. This choice proves again that the names dedicated to the trigrams were applied after those of the hexagrams composed of two identical trigrams. It evoked the never ending expansion of the Yin flow according to a horizontal movement. It here serves as an echo to the ascending vertical movement described by the name and the unfolding of Qian.1, the Creative Spark, the first hexagram.




*The silk manuscript was found with the tomb of the marquis of Kui. It is to date the oldest known copy of the Yi Jing .It was buried in 178 b.c. It is virtually identical in content to the modern editions aside the fact that it bears no mention of trigrams of names attached to them.

Fu Zi
 

ewald

visitor
Joined
May 28, 2006
Messages
510
Reaction score
16
坤 "Continuous extension" of "soil" to me is Land.

Earth as soil to me doesn't express the space that is suggested in 2.0. Earth as planet or as "everywhere that one can go" is too abstract for the Yijing. The Yijing, as an oracle, is foremost concrete.
 

bradford

(deceased)
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
2,626
Reaction score
418
Hi-
Ive always found this subject interesting, especially when I learned that Chuan was the Mawangdui text's Gua Ming for Kun.

I would me a lot more careful with these two statements, however:
"It was, at this point and time, called Waterway. "
There are no indications whatsoever anywhere that the Mawangdui
texts represented mainstream or reliable versions. In fact,
variations between the Laozi texts suggest otherwise.
You just can't generalize from a single occurrence.
And
"This choice proves again that the names dedicated to the trigrams were
applied after those of the hexagrams composed of two identical trigrams."
It proves no such thing. Note the fequency of occurrences of Ba Gua names and
other reiteratives in the Tuan and Yao Ci, starting with qian qian at 01.3.

Anyway, here are two footnotes on water-earth lifted from my Xiao Gua chapter:

The Symbolism: Kun comes close to the conception of Earth which we know as
Gaia, the great Mother. As the ocean did not play an important part in the lives of
the ancient Chinese, those aspects of life which in the West accrued oceanic and
aquatic symbols were represented in China by symbols of the Earth: these include
unity, fecundity, understanding, tolerance, embrace, plenum, capacity and the
mystic's truth. And of course there are the more "earthy" meanings of basis,
ground, substance, substratum, support, accessibility and as many gifts, simply, yet
conditionally, provided, as one is capable of accepting. The dimension is breadth,
the range of the possible, or the field of options with an infinite number of paths.



*Note: Here again is the Chinese conception of Earth symbolized in the west by
Water. Interestingly, the Chinese Mawangdui text calls the Kun Chong Gua
Chuan (1439), Stream, Water or Flow. Curious, too, is that the mare is sacred to
Neptune, her creator in Greek mythology. Remember that in these symbolic
languages, the symbol is not what is being referred to: the symbol is only meant to
evoke a state of mind. Not the finger, the Moon.
 
B

bruce_g

Guest
ewald said:
"Continuous extension" of "soil" to me is Land.

Earth as soil to me doesn't express the space that is suggested in 2.0. Earth as planet or as "everywhere that one can go" is too abstract for the Yijing. The Yijing, as an oracle, is foremost concrete.

If I understand what Brad has said, soil/earth/land in ancient China was indeed considered as being space: “As the ocean did not play an important part in the lives of the ancient Chinese, those aspects of life which in the West accrued oceanic and aquatic symbols were represented in China by symbols of the Earth: these include unity, fecundity, understanding, tolerance, embrace, plenum, capacity and the mystic's truth.”

Most fascinating to me is his term, “mystic truth” used as an earth value. Whereas “mystic” today is generally thought of as star travelers, sky pilots and space cadets, here it isn’t heaven which brings about mystic truth, it is earth. That makes me jump up and run a round inside, maybe beat a pot!
 
B

bruce_g

Guest
Also interesting is the word “unity” for earth. Conquest, war and territory are conditions brought on by looking up: Father/Heaven worship. That is what dominating religions of the world do, they look up for mystical inspiration and power. All the while, the Great Mother performs miracles, nonstop, beneath their feet. Jesus didn’t turn water into air, he turned it into wine, and that into blood. But then Jesus was a Daoist anyway.
 

rosada

visitor
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
9,904
Reaction score
3,207
We have been able to grow some vegetables here. I've noticed when I've eaten these foods I seem to get clear intuitions, as if the earth's wisdom is passed on through eating the plants. Plants that are sold at stores don't seem to effect me this way. Perhaps because they are grown far away, the information they carry isn't pertinent in this location, and thus not recognized..
 
B

bruce_g

Guest
rosada said:
We have been able to grow some vegetables here. I've noticed when I've eaten these foods I seem to get clear intuitions, as if the earth's wisdom is passed on through eating the plants. Plants that are sold at stores don't seem to effect me this way. Perhaps because they are grown far away, the information they carry isn't pertinent in this location, and thus not recognized..

Rosada,

Wow, thanks for giving me this flashback.

One Mother’s Day, my dad drove us to a nice restaurant up in NJ, or maybe it was NY state. Anyway, it was up in onion farm country, where the earth was rich and almost black in color. My Italian grandma was with us that day (of course!), and on the way home she told my dad to pull off the road and go pull up some arugula, which she saw growing along the fertile roadside. Looking out the back window, my dominant dad in an Italian suit and shined shoes, walking through the soft dirt, pulling arugula out by the roots, all to satisfy his mother. I remember the drive home, the earthy and sweet smell. It all felt right.
 
H

hmesker

Guest
I accindentally deleted the latest entry in my weblog about the Xiping Stone Classics. I think it's gone forever. Too bad.
 
H

hmesker

Guest
Wow! Through some digging in the cache of Firefox I managed to get it back. *sigh of relief*.

HM
 

rosada

visitor
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
9,904
Reaction score
3,207
Aw, nice story, Bruce! "Life is too short not to be born Italian."
 

hilary

Administrator
Joined
Apr 8, 1970
Messages
19,226
Reaction score
3,477
Harmen - congratulations on the recovery. Phew.

Now, what settings do I need in Firefox to be able to see all the characters?
 

ewald

visitor
Joined
May 28, 2006
Messages
510
Reaction score
16
In this sentence in Harmen's text:
"Summarizing: the character and its variants , 𡿦 and 𡿭 "
I'm seeing the first two Chinese characters, and question marks for the latter two.

I don't think it's a matter of particular settings of Firefox. It's also not a matter of using a particular browser. In Internet Explorer 6 I see squares instead of question marks, and I do see the other two characters. This has to do with the East Asian fonts that you have (or have not) installed on your computer. The two characters that aren't displayed are simply not available in the common fonts.

If you don't see any Chinese characters at all, you might want to check out the instructions for installing East Asian fonts that I posted a while ago.
 
H

hmesker

Guest
ewald said:
In this sentence in Harmen's text:
"Summarizing: the character and its variants , 𡿦 and 𡿭 "
I'm seeing the first two Chinese characters, and question marks for the latter two.

I don't think it's a matter of particular settings of Firefox. It's also not a matter of using a particular browser. In Internet Explorer 6 I see squares instead of question marks, and I do see the other two characters. This has to do with the East Asian fonts that you have (or have not) installed on your computer. The two characters that aren't displayed are simply not available in the common fonts.

That is true, and even I don't always see the characters on my site - until the suddenly show up, by no reason. It probably has something to do with Windows and how it handles (large) fonts.

Anyway, at least you need to have the Simsun (Founder Extended) font installed. As far as I know it has the largest amount of Chinese characters (maybe more than 55.000). If that still doesn't work you could check your language settings in Firefox. I have set the fonts for the Chinese languages to SimSun (Founder Extended).

Internet Explorer is of no use. It can't handle the extentions in the SimSun font.

Harmen.
 

ewald

visitor
Joined
May 28, 2006
Messages
510
Reaction score
16
Harmen - Isn't Simsun a font for Simplified Chinese? I usually see Chinese fonts on webpages that use the ISO-8859-1 character set, and numbers to indicate the characters (like your page), use Traditional Chinese.

I haven't had much luck fiddling around with the Chinese fonts in both Firefox and Internet Explorer.

As far as I can see, there are no big differences between the two browsers regarding setting fonts for other character sets, though. It would really surprise me if Microsoft hadn't done a good job on language support in IE.
 
H

hmesker

Guest
ewald said:
Harmen - Isn't Simsun a font for Simplified Chinese?

No, it's a Unicode font, which means that it isn't bound to simplified, traditional or whatever. Here it is said about the Simsun (Founder Extended) font:

"The SimSun (Founder Extended) font includes all of 27,564 Chinese characters mentioned above as well as 36,862 Chinese characters selected from the second plane (42,711) used by the Chinese Mainland, and HKSAR (as well as part of Taiwan region). Therefore, SimSun (Founder Extended) has a total of 65,531 characters, including many of the common characters of western languages."

Firefox is able to work with UTF-16, which enables it to access these characters in the so-called 'second plane'. As far as I know IE cannot do this.

HM
 

hilary

Administrator
Joined
Apr 8, 1970
Messages
19,226
Reaction score
3,477
Ah yes, I'm seeing exactly what Ewald is seeing. Harmen, I know this is a whole lot to ask, but could you make graphics of the more obscure characters?
 
H

hmesker

Guest
ewald said:
According to Microsoft, IE is capable of dealing with UTF-16 since version 4.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I have never seen IE display the characters from the extended set.

Perhaps you mean that Firefox has a better font fallback mechanism?
Yes, I think that's it.

Harmen, I know this is a whole lot to ask, but could you make graphics of the more obscure characters?
If it only concerns the two characters mentioned earlier, yes, I could. Otherwise it is too much work. But the two characters are also in this image:
kun-variants.serendipityThumb.gif


Just turn it 90 CCW.

Harmen.
 
H

hmesker

Guest
Odd: when I restarted my computer and went to my blog, the missing characters showed up as question marks. I few minutes later, without doing anything, *tadaah!* they showed up.

Seems hexagram 5 is at work here.

HM
 

hilary

Administrator
Joined
Apr 8, 1970
Messages
19,226
Reaction score
3,477
Thanks for the pdf! All fonts embedded - perfect.
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top