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Negotiating about a job

andrea

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I'm negotiating with a potential employer. For the most part, the readings about the job have been encouraging. Yesterday I was asked in an email what sort of salary I was "expecting."

The job would be a significant change for me: it's in a related but different field, demanding specific expertise for which, more by accident than design, I'm well prepared. Also, it's a public-sector job in a very well-paid industry; so far I've worked for a pittance in academic and nonprofit settings, so this type and scale of negotiation is new to me.

I'd done enough research to have an idea what's common in the industry, though of course my experience doesn't translate exactly to a standard background for this kind of job. I proposed a fairly broad salary range, saying that the specifics would of course depend on benefits and other factors. I hesitated before sending the note, partly because all this is so new to me, and also because even the low end of the range is so much more than I've ever earned before.

I asked: what if I send the note as I've drafted it? I got 25.1,2,3,5 -> 29.

Then I asked: what if I stall and don't cite a range? I got 8.3,4,5,6 -> 56.

Finally, I asked: is there anything specific I should consider about negotiating the salary? I got 40 unchanging.

I found those results utterly confusing. In the end, keeping the proposed range but editing the text slightly, I followed my gut instinct and sent the note. I hope that wasn't a bad move.

As general advice for the day, I got 60.1,2,4,5 -> 16.

I'm not sure what more to make of all these changing lines everywhere, other than that, well, if this job comes through it's going to be a time of big changes. If any of you kind people can offer some insight, I'd be very grateful!
 

andrea

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Also, because I can't sleep and can't stop thinking, I just now asked two more things:

what attitude should I take to this job prospect?
54.1,2,3 -> 62

what attitude should I take to the prospect of staying at [where I work now]?
50.3 -> 64
 

willowfox

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I asked: what if I send the note as I've drafted it? I got 25.1,2,3,5 -> 29.

Hex 25.1,2 suggests send
Hex 25.3 suggests becareful what you say in the note, ie check it again.
Hex 25.5 says if you have made an error, don't worry, it will sort itself out.

Hex 29 I suppose you could say that there are dangers in sending the note but it will be wise for you to go for it, think only of success, be strong and it will turn out okay.
Send the note.

Then I asked: what if I stall and don't cite a range? I got 8.3,4,5,6 -> 56.
Probably not a good idea.

As general advice for the day, I got 60.1,2,4,5 -> 16.

Hex 60.1,2,4,5 At first wait, then start to move forward, but concentrate on the main agenda and don't get carried away with your efforts.

Hex 16 Put yourself into gear, and go, look for people who can help you today.
 

autumn

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Looking at your readings, I think you're jumping the gun. I think there's information about how to negotiate a salary, and what is realistic given this situation that you're missing. I would address the subject of salary negotiations before giving them a number. What does public-sector mean in your country?

If you send the note as drafted, 25>29, lower trigram moving. I believe your intentions are being revealed here, and your intentions are good, but you expose yourself to the possibility of being taken advantage of by revealing your inexperience to them. This demonstrates your message is written in a straight-forward, non-pretentious manner, but you wade into an exposure of your inner thought process that could lead to danger.

What if I stall and don't cite a range? 8>56.
I think they'll doubt you want to accept the job offer. That's why I'd bring up the subject of a "compensation discussion" without discussing specifics.

Anything specific I should consider about negotiating the salary? 40 unchanging.
I don't really understand what you were getting at with your question, so I don't know what the answer means. But, an unchanging 40 suggests you need to let go of your idea of how to go through this process right now and submit to the realities of compensation within that industry.

General advice for the day, 60>16.
Be careful with what you say, but say something that indicates your interest and enthusiasm. You might want to spend time in that email raving about the opportunity to build a career with this industry, and demonstrate your intention to stay and contribute, rather than to speak about numbers.
 

derek

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A possible mis-reading

Hello Andrea,

As a first response from me, I wanted to let you know that I looked at the first answer the Yi gave you, and I think you have misread which related or outcome hexagram results from the moving lines of H25. If lines 1,2,3,5 are moving, then the resultant hexagram is H64 Before Completion (Fire over Water,) not H29 The Abyss or Gorge. If that’s so, it gives a more positive view of the proposed action (which you have taken anyway – good for you!)

I can understand how anxious you feel about doing the right thing. My own experience in asking questions that have a lot of emotional or anxious attachment is that I have to force myself to ‘live’ with just that one answer for two or three days and nights, despite the urge to ask for more information. It’s amazing how the images and metaphors the Yi uses in its hexagrams and moving lines can suddenly make sense after a period of background thinking.

Now that you have taken a first step in sending your note to your prospective employer, circumstances have already changed. So it might be as well to wait until receiving a response, which itself conditions a new ‘time.’ Then the meaning of the original response of H25 may look a lot clearer.

Meanwhile, the Friends of Online Clarity will surely have some helpful interpretations for you, and I’ll think some more about what H25 -> H64 tells you.

Best wishes
Derek
 

autumn

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Darn, should have checked that before giving you a reading. 64 as a resulting hexagram still gives the overall picture of walking into something "unformed". It doesn't have the connotation of "avoid vulnerable exposure" that 29 has, but it does suggest you aren't in a position to know exactly what to do, and that more information will change the picture in the near future.

How about your other readings, though. What attitude should I take? 54>62.

This is an interesting reading. With a different question, I would wonder if the advice were to be careful not to settle for less than what they can pay you. But, I'm more inclined to see this as direct advice- take on an inner attitude mirrored by this hexagram. If that is the case, the advice is to take on a role of inner subordination to the structure of this organization, and what their flexibilities are and are not regarding compensation.
 

willowfox

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Yet another mistake here.

Check again, hex 25.1,2,3,5 gives hex 50.

Hex 50 supreme good fortune.
 

willowfox

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Finally, I asked: is there anything specific I should consider about negotiating the salary? I got 40 unchanging.

You should work out all the small details straight away, so there are no problems later. When everything has been sorted out, no more need to worry. This hex means that you will be delivered out from any harm, all problems with this job will be resolved to your satisfaction.
 

andrea

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Sorry -- that's what I get for being up too late for my own brain.

I mistyped two things: in the first reading, I cited the wrong moving lines. They were 25.1,2,4,6 -> 29. And I wrote "public sector" when I meant "private sector." Argh.

Many thanks for all your help. I should have some news on Monday after we meet again!
 

willowfox

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what attitude should I take to this job prospect?
54.1,2,3 -> 62

Hex 54.1,2,3 says to act with modesty, remain in the backgroud, to be steadfast and loyal, but don't long for advancement.

Hex 62 says for you to keep a low profile but to persevere quietly, do not attempt anything big here, attempting to go higher will not be fortunate.

what attitude should I take to the prospect of staying at [where I work now]?
50.3 -> 64

Hex 50.3 says that you cannot find nourishment in your present job. You are basically wasting your time here, as nobody takes any notice of you. If somebody did take notice and perhaps promote you, then you may have felt better.

Hex 64 Difficult times in your present job. You have to be extremely careful not to make a mistake, any slip ups will lead to trouble.
 

derek

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Sorry to have added to the confusion.
I do have an eye-test booked for later this month :eek:. Good luck for Monday, Andrea.
 

willowfox

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Sorry -- that's what I get for being up too late for my own brain.

I mistyped two things: in the first reading, I cited the wrong moving lines. They were 25.1,2,4,6 -> 29.

Hex 25.1 says to follow your instincts, good.
Hex 25.2 says do what you have to do but don't look for results.
Hex 25.4 says what belongs to you you will recive, so keep going.
Hex 25.6 says to stay still, don't push the story anymore, now is the time to wait and see what happens, what the job peoples descision will be.

Send the note, yes, but then wait, take no further action. Pestering brings misfortune.
 

andrea

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The plot thickens.

On Friday afternoon I heard from someone interested in hiring me for a different job entirely. I suspect it'd probably involve somewhat less money. It's rather a less adventurous prospect in that it would be fairly similar to work I've done before, but it's at a very prestigious, stable organization with undeniable other advantages. It's appealing too, in different ways and for different reasons.

But it's just a feeler, whereas the job I was asking about is close to "closing the deal".

I asked what attitude I should take to the new prospect, and got 3.5 -> 24

I asked how this new prospect should affect my attitude to the prospect I mentioned earlier, and got 38.2,4 -> 27
 

willowfox

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"I asked what attitude I should take to the new prospect, and got 3.5 -> 24"

Hex 3.5 says this job requires that you persevere slowly and quietly, this is not the kind of job where you can push yourself forwards, here it is a matter of keeping your mind on the job or some others could interfere and mess up this job for you. It is all about being constant and keeping a low profile.

Hex 24 says this job could be a turning point for you, a major transformation, a time of freedom, happiness and friends.
The text says on the 7th day return, if it indicated 7 weeks that would set the time for this job at the beginning of December.

"I asked how this new prospect should affect my attitude to the prospect I mentioned earlier, and got 38.2,4 -> 27"


Hex 38.2 possible misunderstandings at first, leading to missed appointments, then meeting that person by accident later on.

Hex 38.4 you may feel lonely and isolated at first but you will meet a very good friend here.

Hex 27 this job will provide you with nourishment, a place to work, a good salary and food for thought. good fortune.

Hex 38 indicates middle of November and Hex 27 indicates middle of December, I have no idea if these dates apply to your situation with this first job that you asked about.

I have not answered the question as to how these jobs effect your attitude because I do not see that answer given. I only see what the two jobs have in store for you, should you work at one or the other. You must read the answers given, then you will know what your attitude towards the two jobs is, by yourself. They both appear to be good but in different ways. The answers that I have given are food for you to chew on and contemplate.
 

andrea

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I thought I'd better come back and report on what happened here.

I negotiated some very good terms for the first job, then had to make a decision on it before getting a firm offer on the second, so I decided to take it. And sure enough, it's beginning in the middle of November, exactly as indicated.

Thank you all for your help. I'm pretty excited about it.
 

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