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New angle on Hexagram 4?

cesca

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I have an idea I'd like to bounce off y'all. Please forgive the lengthy preamble, and the downright lengthiness of the whole thing -- I'm just trying to set this up so it has the best chance of making sense:

Hexagram 4 is one of the hexagrams that describes childhood. The hexagram name MENG essentially means ‘covering’: veiling or hiding.

The nature of a child is not yet manifest; it is in potentio, an unknown. The process of life and learning uncovers the brightness of the child.

The Chinese term 'qi meng' refers to education; it literally means to lift the cover and reveal what was concealed. The word 'education' itself has a similar meaning, derived from the Latin educare "bring up, rear, educate," which is related to educere "bring out," from ex- "out" + ducere "to lead". In both cases, there is an assumption that one is revealing something already inherent in a person.

The knowledge we receive depends upon the direction of our curiosity, which shapes the questions we ask. It’s a basic principle of scientific research that we only get answers to the questions we ask, and that the way we formulate our questions is of primary importance in determining the kinds of answers we get. Learning to formulate a question that can yield a useful answer is one of the fundamental skills of the formalized learning we call research.

An important aspect of Hexagram 4 is about how to retain a healthy innocence into adulthood, without immaturity. Not-knowing and naiveté are two very different states; an open curiosity about the natural world (including that part of it that lies ‘inside’ us) actively invites knowledge rather than denying uncomfortable realities. A great part of wisdom lies in knowing how to wonder, how to be receptive, how to notice things that don’t fit with what is already known, how to imagine new possibilities and test them against experience.

But (and here's where my idea starts....) perhaps meng also refers to the uncovering of a different approach to knowing.

Meng is at least partially about education – but it clearly isn’t talking about linear ‘fact-accumulation’. In fact, it may be talking explicitly about NOT being linear, about accessing a state of attentive receptivity that allows you to learn in a different way.

In the book "A General Theory of Love", the authors (three psychiatrists) say that the human brain has two very different memory systems. ‘Explicit memory’ encodes event memories, including autobiographical recollections and discrete facts. It is closely related to imagination, and the brain cannot reliably distinguish between recorded experience and internal fantasy.

By contrast, ‘implicit memory’ records complex knowledge that we cannot describe, explain or recognize. To illustrate, the authors describe a study in which subjects were given the task of predicting the weather in a simple computer model:

“On each trial, a computer screen showed one, two, or three … cues (in the form of meaningless shapes). The subject’s job was to predict whether such hints combined to herald rain or shine in the computer’s phantasmagorical world. Each subject looked at the cues and typed in his answer, and the computer gave feedback, telling him whether his meteorological prognostication had been right or wrong. Then he tried again.
“The researchers designed this experiment so that the displayed cues, as unhelpful as they look, did relate lawfully to the ultimate outcome of showers or sun. The relationship between cues and effect, however, was a complex, probabilistic function that even the smartest person couldn’t deduce. By deliberately making the task too difficult for logic to unravel, the investigators hoped to neutralize neocortical reasoning – so that subjects would confront the task with one brain tied behind their backs, so to speak. The cognitive obfuscation succeeded; none of the subjects figured out the scheme whereby clues pointed the way to a weather prediction. Despite their incomprehension, subjects nevertheless steadily honed their forecasting abilities…They gradually developed a feel for the situation, and intuitively grasped the essence of a complex problem that their logical brains could not crack.
“Predicting a day’s real weather involves a different set of clues but, until the advent of modern meteorology, relied on the same process that this study explores….
“For the amateur predictor (as most of us are), this inner, so easily ignored sense may be the best available guide....
“Spoken language…is based on a labyrinthine array of phonological and grammatical rules that native speakers know but could not explicate; most could not even recognize the rules when spelled out in plain English…Implicit knowledge makes language structure available for automatic use but not reflection. Children learn to speak without instruction; they absorb linguistic rules as a sponge absorbs water.”

(end of quote)...(here's my idea:)

Very complex situations – like real-life situations – do not yield to explicit questions. Say you are meeting someone for the first time, and you want to get to know them. You could ask them a thousand questions, and they could answer them honestly; you would know all about them, but you still wouldn’t know them. But in the asking and the answering, your implicit mind would be observing and getting to know them.

There’s more than one way to learn. Traditionally, Chinese medicine – like all skills – was learned by apprenticeship. You can go to school to learn ABOUT things, but learning HOW TO do anything only comes with experience.

Maybe Hexagram4 is telling us to uncover our implicit memory, our intuition, our ‘knowing without knowing about’, or knowing why.

It’s the ‘explicit mind’ that asks a lot of questions. The Decision tells us not to do that. It tells us to seek the oracle.

Maybe it's (at least partially) about how you approach the oracle in such a way that it can UNCOVER a subject. Maybe it's saying we need to adopt an attitude of mindful receptivity that allows our 'implicit memory' to develop an intuitive knowledge of the question under inquiry, and perhaps even of the oracle itself?
 
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lightofreason

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hex 04 shares space with 07 and it opposes 49.

04 and 07 cover issues of socialisation and so 04 is social education, it not about 'facts' but about being social - we learn social skills etc and the focus is on protection (the water focus is on containment/control and so the 07/04 pair bring out education/socialisation for the sake of control). As such 04 covers putting ON a mask just as 49 covers removing the mask to see what is behind it.

The 07/13 pair (49 pairs with 13) cover socialisation from outside (07) as compared to sourcing it inside - likemindedness. From the outside the analogy is to an army where there is no focus on YOUR mind, only in you adopting the army mind, whereas in 13 the focus is on YOUR mind and the resonances it sets up with others of likemind.

The infrastracture of 04 is described by analogy to the general characteristics of hex 19. Note how the generic form of 19 covers approaching the 'high' and the deference of such to the low - refine that and out pops the properties of 04 covering the approaching of a teacher and the response of that teacher, especially if treated disrespectfully.
(there is symmetry here in that the infrastructure of 19 is described by analogy to the generic qualities of 04).

The focus on water is not on covering but on enclosing, to bound and so to protect, to keep things out or to keep things in as an act of protection of the society. A mask does this, and 49 covers the removal of the mask, to reveal. (49 - with/from guidance comes intensity in expression)

The 04 hexagram thus reads "with/from containment comes discernment (quality control - mountain in upper)

The full spectrum of 04 is summarised in the line positions section of:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/x100010.html

Chris.
 
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bruce_g

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Cesca, a beautiful, well written article. Thank you. I completely agree with your ideas on Meng. It actually lit my face up.
 

cesca

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Thanks for the positive feedback, Bruce! I wasn’t sure if I was making any sense at all.

Meanwhile, an explicit demonstration of explicit thought seems to have been played out on the ‘Defend Your Methodology’ string. LOL

Forgive me going on about -- but I'm sort of excited about this -- a new way of thinking about things. So I’ve been noticing instances of implicit knowledge in myself….

I’ve just made some pasta for myself, and scraped the sauce out of a non-stick pan with a metal fork, but gently enough so it didn’t scratch the non-stick surface. How gently is that? I only know from experience. I drained the pasta from the pot into a plastic colander, and replaced the colander on top of the pot. I knew that the pot was just cool enough not to damage the plastic of the colander.

All of this was almost unconscious. But I’ve had to make rules for my lodgers, like ‘Never use metal on the non-stick pan’, because I’ve had countless (well, two) pans ruined by them.

This is a different class of ‘rule’ than the rules of grammar, or the laws of gravity. The rules people make are essentially substitutes for a consciousness of how things work, which is to say you need human rules when the actual rules that govern complex processes (such as language, or the weather, or a body, or human society) are not known. (This is, by the way, a major difference between ‘Western’ and Chinese medicine; the practice of modern medicine is predominantly formulaic, whereas traditional Chinese medicine relies more heavily on the practitioner’s ability to discern patterns within the model. This is why it is said that Western medicine is difficult to learn, but easy to practice, but Chinese medicine is easy to learn but difficult to practice. Of course, in real life, many Western doctors also develop implicit knowledge with experience over time. My partner was a vet for 30 years, and most of the time he knew the diagnosis when the animal first came through the door – but he still had to do the tests).

It also reminds me of a lengthy discussion, in a psychotherapeutic training I did a few years ago, of ‘What are the rules around dual relationships (e.g. can you be friends with your therapist)?’ The truth is that all these professional rules are just substitutes for having a good sense of how relationships work, which can only be acquired by ‘implicit learning’. It can’t be taught, but it can be learned.

And the rest of the truth is that sometimes rules are needed, because often it isn’t learned.

But the downside of all these rules is that they tend to proliferate until they rigidify behaviour, and preclude the possibility of correct spontaneous action – which is the essence of bureaucracy.

Anyway, to come back to meng, another way of expressing what I’m trying to say is that the hexagram is encouraging the learning of the real rules, the underlying rules of how things work, rather than just the imposed rules like ‘Thou shall’ and ‘Thou shalt not’.

And the discussions of the Yi on this site are a great example of implicit learning as a group.
 
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bruce_g

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Hi Cesca,

Well, I was with you right up until your very last sentence. I feel there are far more cases of explicit interpretations and discussions than there are implicit interpretations and discussions, demonstrated on this forum. Not a case of “a child shall lead them”, but of “this + this = that”. Not that there’s anything wrong with deductive reasoning, other than its limits.
 

hilary

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Nice article :)

I think this is a good distinction to associate with meng. Another, parallel but not quite the same, is understanding versus knowing the answer.

A while ago, my husband laid into me for accumulating what he called 'stamp collecting knowledge'. I have mental lists of herbs that are good for this and essential oils that are good for that ('lavender plus chamomile = anti-inflammatory')... but no understanding of how any of this occurs. Yi started in on me with hexagram 4 at the same time, and I think that - as often happens... - they were saying the same thing.

The understanding I'm missing when it comes to essential oils is only to be acquired by in-depth study of biochemistry. (Though I do have the 'implicit' kind of understanding somewhere between nose and brain, for recognising quality or creating blends.) So it's 'explicit', but it's still understanding rather than a fact-album. Neither a knowledge of biochemistry nor yet knowing how hard you can use a metal fork on your non-stick pan can be had just for the asking.

On meng as uncovering what's there... see the nuclear hexagram.
 

cesca

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Hi Cesca,

I feel there are far more cases of explicit interpretations and discussions than there are implicit interpretations and discussions, demonstrated on this forum.

True enough, but meanwhile in the background, we're all expanding our 'feel' for the Yi --each of us deepening our relationships with it. The 'explicit' information exchanged acts as a stimulus to check out things we may not have noticed in our own experience.
 

cesca

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A while ago, my husband laid into me for accumulating what he called 'stamp collecting knowledge'. I have mental lists of herbs that are good for this and essential oils that are good for that ('lavender plus chamomile = anti-inflammatory')... but no understanding of how any of this occurs. Yi started in on me with hexagram 4 at the same time, and I think that - as often happens... - they were saying the same thing.

The understanding I'm missing when it comes to essential oils is only to be acquired by in-depth study of biochemistry.

Fair enough -- but I've seen an awful lot of people who know all the theory but that doesn't help them put it into application. This is actually a real and important issue in complementary therapies; as they are becoming more mainstream academic subjects, a lot of their subtlety and power is seeping away from the training. It's as if anything that doesn't fit into a scientific model is devalued -- but these therapies were developed within other models, models that are equally valid, if currently unfashionable.


On meng as uncovering what's there... see the nuclear hexagram.

Hilary, can you please expand on this?
 
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bruce_g

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True enough, but meanwhile in the background, we're all expanding our 'feel' for the Yi --each of us deepening our relationships with it. The 'explicit' information exchanged acts as a stimulus to check out things we may not have noticed in our own experience.

Good point. I think that's what Hilary also said.
 

hilary

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Well... the nuclear hexagram of 4 is 24. At the heart of Not Knowing, Returning - getting back on track. And one of the applications of 24, I think, is the first whisperings of an emergent inner sense of direction. Shut the borders, cancel 'business as usual', nourish the inner thunder. The way it's written about in the Dazhuan, too, has a 'know the seeds' feel to it. So I imagine not knowing allows space for returning, and returning might grow from not knowing.

Hope that makes sense outside my own head...
 

cesca

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Hilary wrote:
Well... the nuclear hexagram of 4 is 24. At the heart of Not Knowing, Returning - getting back on track. And one of the applications of 24, I think, is the first whisperings of an emergent inner sense of direction. Shut the borders, cancel 'business as usual', nourish the inner thunder. The way it's written about in the Dazhuan, too, has a 'know the seeds' feel to it. So I imagine not knowing allows space for returning, and returning might grow from not knowing.


Got it, yeah!
 
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maremaria

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Hi Cesca,

I really liked your article.and I can relate to your view , and I love the “maybe” word.

I have just “met” the Yi and I want to know about it. Two questions is in my mind “Who are you?” and “ how do you do that?” as i said in who/what are you? thread.
The answer I have today (maybe tomorrow will be another one) for the first question is that Yi is the Youthful Folly the young and the ignorant, the wise one who has traveled in the core of the things and find out that he knows nothing. To make more sense this new-to me situation I have connect in my mind IC with Socrates and his method of teaching. Socrates told about himself. “One I know, that I know nothing” and his method is based on the idea that the truth exists in the mind of every human being and what it “gives birth” of that truths is the questions the teacher asks and the answers the student gives. He also said “the highest form of Human Excellence is to question oneself and others."

In my opinion is that aspect that make a teacher skillful and not the acquired knowledge. It’s how I seek my teachers. Then one they perceived their self as bright they are the ignorant one. They believe that they are brilliant and is not a good ground for an exchange. They have anything to gain from this exchange -they think that they know everything- so they do bother to honor that meeting. They just give a lecture and go away. What can we gain from such a meeting ? Maybe just the picture of the one standing proudly on the fake throne with a label “I’m a genius”, who can’t see that on his/her head there is a hat saying “I’m dumb”. How embarrassing situation to be !!

But the others ,the one that perceived themselves as ignorant (because of their deep wisdom) are the ones that attract us the youth and ignorant (ignorant because we haven’t discovered yet the truth ,the knowledge inside us). That why we are seeking them. They don’t come to teach us, they don’t need to prove something through us. We go to them to learn, to follow our questions and find our way to the answer. This sounds like an open and sincere exchange.
Saint –Exupery’s Little Prince says “what makes the desert beautiful, is that somewhere is hides a well”. Maybe we seek the teacher to borrow the map ,the directions to the well. But what we get is “I don’t have a map for your well but you can use your compass (thirst) and you will find it, if you are really thirsty.

As for the question “ How do you do that?”
There is a painting of van-Gong that I love . Its was like “love at the first sight”. After years I went to Amsterdam visiting a friend. The first thing I did then was visiting the museum. When I arrived at the place it was that painting I felt like crying and I couldn’t stop some tears. I can’t describe those feelings. Something happened there that even now can’t explain it. I have a poster of that painting in my home. There as some days that I lay on my sofa and just looking at this painting. I think it talks to me. Do ask me what it tell me, because I don’t know I can’t hear it. I think I talk to it but I can’t hear myself either . But its not important. It’s just there. When I need to talk, it is always there. In the wall, in my mind. It’s just there.

This painting and the IC have something common. Both make my ask “how do you do that ?” And I find myself trying to find a solid explanation. To make the implicit explicit. But after I while this sentence changes to “How to you do that!!” And then I try to find the words to explain all that feelings. But how to describe a beautiful sound or image with words? We say is sounds/looks/feels like this, but “like this” or “like that” is not “what it is”. It’s something else and in the process to analyze it, we lose it. If we are luck and realized that and wise to stop it ,then, maybe we can save it. And then the only thing we want to say is “thank you” or even better say nothing. Just smile.
As we smile when the voices of our “teachers” visits us when we need them, without really asking them to come. They just appear, uninvited but welcome. What they say to us ? “There is a well in that desert” or “you have the brushes, you have the colors ! Paint the paradise and go there” (N.kazantzakis)

I think that when I begin writing this, I had something else in my mind. I can’t recall now, because of that last sentence its me, 10 year ago, in a graduation ceremony, giving a speech for my class. How I forget saying that ? N.kazantzakis said “you have the brushes, you have the colors ! Paint the paradise and go there” But do we have all the colors? Maybe not, but we have red, blue, yellow and we know that if we mix them with black and white we can get any color we want. So its our time to take our brushes and colors and start painting” wish for us to have inspiration. !

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

“Who are you?” and “ how do you do that?”
Forget this questions No need to ask you now.
How do you do that !!! sorry can explain you the ‘that”
Just ,
Thank you

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Sorry , for the length but I couldn’t stop writing and or cut something to make it sorter. I really need to say that and share it with you. And thank you too….. (don’t have to explain why, do I? )

Maria
 

lienshan

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Hi Cesca,

I too really liked your article :)

To me the hexagram 4 Meng contains one of the greatest King Wen Judgements and the lines tell the story:

King Wu died two years after the Conquest. His son, King Sheng, was only 13 years old and ofcourse too young to rule the newestablished Zhou Dynasty. The line two tells me, that the Duke of Zhou became his stepfather. The other lines tell me about his paedagogic considerations as the teacher of the King. That's why I read his words exactly like You describe your new angle on the hexagram:

Meng is at least partially about education – but it clearly isn’t talking about linear ‘fact-accumulation’. In fact, it may be talking explicitly about NOT being linear, about accessing a state of attentive receptivity that allows you to learn in a different way.

I've too asked the Yi the Maria question "Who are you?" and received the answer "the Duke of Zhou" :bows:

I've not asked the "how do you do that?" question, because I believe in the principle of learning by doing :brickwall:
 

dobro p

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Cesca, that's an interesting idea you've applied to Hex 4. But in addition to explicit and implicit knowledge, there's also the idea of a built-in potential for each person that's born on the planet (or any other planet, I imagine). The idea is this: the child develops through stages in which certain knowledge and experience gets automatically organized for him/her in certain parts of his/her mind - thoughts go to the intellectual center, emotions organize themselves around the emotional center, sensations group around the instinctive center, and movements live around a moving center. As we get older, each of these centers develops if the person is balanced. But of course, many people aren't balanced, and most everybody develops one or two centers and ignores the others. (I favor the intellectual center for instance, and my other centers are less developed.) But the rest of the idea is that there are higher centers which most people never reach (or only in brief moments which they hardly understand or remember) unless they embark on some sort of guided instruction in self-development. Jung talked about stuff like this, the Fourth Way schools are into it bigtime, and Kabbala as well.

Okay, apply this to Hex 4: the covering/uncovering idea built into Hex 4 could apply to the developing of each of these centers in the growing process of the child, of the adult, of the mature adult - to anybody, in fact. It's more than explicit and implicit knowledge; it's where and how that knowledge is organized. Maybe Hex 4 includes that idea.
 
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maremaria

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Hi Cesca,

I've too asked the Yi the Maria question "Who are you?" and received the answer "the Duke of Zhou" :bows:

I've not asked the "how do you do that?" question, because I believe in the principle of learning by doing :brickwall:

I didn't actually toss on that questions. I didn't have the courage ? Maybe.
I don't really want an answer ? again maybe.
 

cesca

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That why we are seeking them. They don’t come to teach us, they don’t need to prove something through us. We go to them to learn, to follow our questions and find our way to the answer. This sounds like an open and sincere exchange.
Saint –Exupery’s Little Prince says “what makes the desert beautiful, is that somewhere is hides a well”. Maybe we seek the teacher to borrow the map ,the directions to the well. But what we get is “I don’t have a map for your well but you can use your compass (thirst) and you will find it, if you are really thirsty.

Yes! I think good teachers show us how to read a map, and that it is just a map, not the territory – and the best ones encourage us to look at the actual territory.

I try to find the words to explain all that feelings. But how to describe a beautiful sound or image with words? We say is sounds/looks/feels like this, but “like this” or “like that” is not “what it is”. It’s something else and in the process to analyze it, we lose it. If we are luck and realized that and wise to stop it ,then, maybe we can save it. And then the only thing we want to say is “thank you” or even better say nothing. Just smile.

That is so beautifully said!

When we only look at the models (and to an extent, trying to ‘understand’ something always consists of constructing or tinkering with models; it’s always more or less reductionist) we miss the mystery of the wholeness that inspires awe. It cannot be captured with definitions. But it can be approached with art.


Sorry , for the length but I couldn’t stop writing and or cut something to make it sorter. I really need to say that and share it with you. And thank you too….. (don’t
have to explain why, do I? )


Thank you, Maria. I'm so glad you're part of this forum! :)
Cesca
 

cesca

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King Wu died two years after the Conquest. His son, King Sheng, was only 13 years old and of course too young to rule the new established Zhou Dynasty. The line two tells me, that the Duke of Zhou became his stepfather. The other lines tell me about his paedagogic considerations as the teacher of the King. That's why I read his words exactly like you describe your new angle on the hexagram:

Great story! Thanks! :)
 

cesca

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Okay, apply this to Hex 4: the covering/uncovering idea built into Hex 4 could apply to the developing of each of these centers in the growing process of the child, of the adult, of the mature adult - to anybody, in fact. It's more than explicit and implicit knowledge; it's where and how that knowledge is organized. Maybe Hex 4 includes that idea.

Yeah, that's a great angle. It could refer to needing to go back and pick up the dropped stitches - the areas of yourself that haven't been developed. Which isn't to say that everyone could or should operate equally well in all those ways; we're all skewed with various combinations of these qualities dominant to some extent. But if someone gets Hex4, maybe it's a call to develop some capacity that has been neglected.

That way of looking at it could apply within any model of personal development -- for example, in the Object Relations psychological model, it could refer to a 'Learning Task' that was missed; or it might refer to a different sort of 'yoga' (e.g. if you've been concentrating on Bhakti yoga, maybe you should develop another kind as well).

Cesca
 

dobro p

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Yeah, that's a great angle. It could refer to needing to go back and pick up the dropped stitches - the areas of yourself that haven't been developed. Which isn't to say that everyone could or should operate equally well in all those ways; we're all skewed with various combinations of these qualities dominant to some extent. But if someone gets Hex4, maybe it's a call to develop some capacity that has been neglected.

That way of looking at it could apply within any model of personal development -- for example, in the Object Relations psychological model, it could refer to a 'Learning Task' that was missed; or it might refer to a different sort of 'yoga' (e.g. if you've been concentrating on Bhakti yoga, maybe you should develop another kind as well).

Yes, exactly. But the idea I outlined also includes the idea that those lessons and experiences you learn (or go back later and pick up) go to different places in your being, and in two ways. The first way is like I outlined: some experience gets 'filed' in the intellectual part of our being, and some in the emotional part etc. The second way is that some of the places that experiences get 'filed' are higher and some are lower. Or perhaps you'd prefer the term 'finer' and 'coarser'. A lower level lesson/experience will never get 'filed' in a higher center, and vice versa. And like you implied, I think, if you've missed 'lessons' then you have to go back and pick them up, because there's no way you can stabilize at a higher level until you've done the needfuls at the lower levels.

And Hex 4 can cover all of those situations: it can cover something you need to learn for the first time, or something that you started and dropped earlier and now have to deal with.
 

lucia

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Is this advertising why is it hijacking what was a nice thread ?

You have your thread in the other forum why jump on someone else's to get attention?

L
 

Trojina

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its a 3 year old thread but I can't see why this advertising link has been tacked onto it.
 
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hilary

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'Advertising' implies something for sale; nothing for sale here.
 

Trojina

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oh perhaps the pendulum course is free then ?
 

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