New experiences with 61

[marien]

Talk about synchronicity-- I've just come here to post about 61, and the thread below is also about 61 and by someone with the same name as me. Something is up with this hexagram. Anyway, I'm going through a sort of crisis right now; it's a relationship related crisis (as is often the case here), but it's also a kind of I Ching crisis. Has anyone here ever have the experience of a hexagram radically changing on them? I've been practicing the I Ching for fifteen years on and off, and while I've misinterpreted many times, there becomes a certain familiarity with some hexes and lines. 61 has been the most positive and spiritual for me over the years, always showing up when I've become "in touch" in one way or another. It hasn't come up a lot, but when it has, the results have always been deeply positive and far reaching.

But this time has been different. It came up repeatedly (usually unchanging) about a potential new relationship which turned out to be DOA. (I posted about meeting him on another thread: "Before Completion"; I'd gotten a series of 64s off the bat). To make a long story short, I met a guy on a job, spent an amazing day with him-- nothing physical happened but much attraction, talked about deep personal stuff, he offered help with a business thing. Meanwhile he was out of the country and sent emails. So I was going through this thing because I've finally found my inner peace without a relationship, and I'm cautious about getting hurt again. But he kept showing up in my dreams, and it was always good. And I was using the I Ching a lot (probably too much), but asking more about myself and whether I was ready for a new relationship. But whenever I did break down and ask about the potential relationship, I always got 61 unchanging (3 times). Twice I asked the dreaded "What are his feelings towards me?" and got 61 unchanging and then 10.4 > 61. That last one happened after a dream where he and I were standing next to a tiger

Anyway, finally met him again today for coffee with the business contact he's so helpfully introduced me to. That was all good, but the business friend asked about his girlfriend and he turned sheepish and left the meeting early. Ouch, this happens every time, it always turns out that there's always another woman involved...
And I'm outta here now before things get worse.

So I'm pretty sad to realize that I'm still stuck in this pattern (attracted to guys who are unavailable), and I'm also more than confused about 61. I've had plenty of other times when the I Ching had warned me in advance, though I chose not to read the writing on the wall. This time, I was trying to be sober and cautious, though I kept getting positive signs. I just don't understand why. Asked about the 61s and got 37.2.3.4 > 10 (tiger again). Asked about his position in this and got 51 unchanging.

So does anyone have any new insights on 61? I read everything from the archives, but I could still use more. And/or does anyone have a similar experience? Like I said, this has always been such a good hex for me, that it kind of feels like having the rug pulled out from under.

Thanks btw to the forum members; I've spent so much time on the archives looking up hexes and lines. Whatever blahs I'm going through now, you've all helped deepen my relationship with the Yi. :bows:

Mary

 

[willowfox]

"What are his feelings towards me?" and got 61 and 10.4 > 61

Obviously you have shaken his tree as he does indeed have feelings for you but your next answer suggests that he is being extremely cautious in his behaviour towards you. And you now know the reason why.

 

[meng]

Hi, Mary.

I'd read it as saying: You are treading on familiar (family) turf, and he upsets that (in a good way). hm, just noticed that Willowfox sees that it is you that shakes his tree. Anyway, one of you is rockin the other's world, or perhaps it's mutual.

I was corresponding this morning with a friend regarding 61. Just a general comment. "Wind blowing over Lake. The lake doesn't affect the wind, but the wind affects the lake. The influence affects people, and the pigs and fishes. Wind doesn't discriminate."

Since wind doesn't discriminate, the kind of truth 61 intends is not a specialized or filtered truth. Relationships that are founded on this undiscriminating truth are strong and sweet. But they can break down, when discrimination of special interests replaces natural and unbiased truth.

Bruce

 

[mary f]

Hey Mary, I'm the Mary who's just posted a thread about Hex. 61.

Although I really prefer to make a deeper analysis on what you report before commenting, I'd like to raise a quick question:
"... It came up repeatedly (usually unchanging) about a potential new relationship which turned out to be DOA. (I posted about meeting him on another thread: "Before Completion"; I'd gotten a series of 64s off the bat). ..."

Am I wrong in my comprehension or perhaps you are insisting too much on the same issues asking the Yi more than once, as if you don't believe that was the right answer? Wilhelm says that one of the purposes of the ancient Chineses using the milfoil sticks (instead of the coins) is because the ritual itself - longer - would prepare the consultant's subconscious. Wilhelm and Jung said the Yi only answers once.

I may be wrong because I want to get back to you on this after a better research (I also have this pattern of finding wrong guys), but think about this: wouldn't the Inner Truth be related to a truth you may first have to find in yourself?

Another thought: are you sure it's really over between he and you? Are you sure he's not leaving the girlfriend?

Take care.

 

[willowfox]

Another thought: are you sure it's really over between he and you? Are you sure he's not leaving the girlfriend?

Understanding the question, and in this case the little story goes along way in being able to understand the answer.

 

[Trojina]

Anyway, finally met him again today for coffee with the business contact he's so helpfully introduced me to. That was all good, but the business friend asked about his girlfriend and he turned sheepish and left the meeting early. Ouch, this happens every time, it always turns out that there's always another woman involved...
And I'm outta here now before things get worse.

So I'm pretty sad to realize that I'm still stuck in this pattern (attracted to guys who are unavailable), and I'm also more than confused about 61. I've had plenty of other times when the I Ching had warned me in advance, though I chose not to read the writing on the wall. This time, I was trying to be sober and cautious, though I kept getting positive signs. I just don't understand why. Asked about the 61s and got 37.2.3.4 > 10 (tiger again). Asked about his position in this and got 51 unchanging.



Mary

Just want to say consider it the other way about. I hear so many women say this, but it may rather be the case that men in relationships often continue heavy flirting and lead one to believe they are interested so its not always women are attracted to unavailable men its just theres alot of men who though they are unavailable act as if they weren't. Very often its just for fun on their part..who knows...but i do know this is an old story I heard many times, ie man acts interested but is in relationship but still send interested signals to woman. In the end its a waste of time hanging about trying to figure his psychology, if hes with someone else and hasn't made any direct proposal to you its probably just game playing

 

[diamanda]

Hi marien,

I've found that most often the message of 61 to me is that there is a
hidden truth in the situation, which, however, i should be able to see,
something like i 'know it subconsciously already'. Very similar to what
you yourself said, "always showing up when I've become "in touch" in
one way or another".

From what you write, you already knew there was something not quite
right, and you were already apprehensive. The fact alone that you need
to ask a question such as "what are his feelings towards me", at this
stage, shows that he wasn't really demonstrative enough so far. It's
easy to see, and soon, when someone fancies us. If it's not, then the
person either doesn't fancy us, or has some serious personality problem.
Same goes for if the person shows he fancies us, but doesn't act upon
it. You also got line 10:4 - him being far too reserved and far too cautious.
This could also be an advice to you, be very cautious, because, 61 again,
'you already know the hidden truth'. The fact that he turned sheepish
upon the revelation on his girlfriend shows that he did lead you on a
bit, perhaps for the sake of business, or maybe he just fancied an
affair.

I think 61 is really trying to teach you here to listen to your own hunches
and not go for wishful thinking when the signs are just not what they're
supposed to be. You are attracted to him, ok, but you need to learn to
recognise the signs of unavailability soon, before you get emotionally
involved with someone. There are a lot of unavailable people out there,
and it seems a lot of men who hide that fact. But the signs are always
there, if we observe and learn how to spot them.

You asked about the 61s, ie in essence you asked about what was that
inner truth, and the answer says the truth is that he's got a girlfriend
at home and that's why he was too cautious with you. 51 to me sounds
like a huge alarm bell and a warning to you - you asked about "his
position", well, that's dangerous territory. What could his position be
really? He's got a girlfriend, and he was making some moves (even if
slight ones) towards you. Think what that tells us about this man....

(Just read Trojan's post, and very very much agree)

 

[marien]

Thanks everyone!

Meng, you really nailed it with the family stuff-- so obvious but I just couldn't see clearly. Also, the part about special interests really rang true.

And thanks Willowfox. What you said was an exact description of what I sensed in him yesterday. No wonder.

Hi Mary ! I don't want to hold any hope for this guy, at least not now. Whatever is going on, it's not healthy for me as it relates to all these patterns that I need to be rid of. So it still hurts, but it's more related to past stuff than to this specific person.

You had a good point about asking repeated questions. I've read up on this since joining Clarity, and my take is pretty different than what most would say. I think that the method and frequency of casting is really personal and varies according to the type of experience. I've had my crisis phases where the questions keep coming til I get the perfect outcome (which never happens in reality). Other times when there have been heavy burdens to carry, the Yi gives me strength to endure. So I'll use the Yi repeatedly if need be, for meditation, guidance, therapy. As long as I'm aware of my intentions, the process has always been beneficial. (And it tends to speak up if I'm asking too much, or if I not using its guidance correctly). As for repeated hexes and lines, they usually relate to major life-cycles/lessons, and keep coming up until the matter is resolved (then I rarely see them again). So hence my confusion with 61... (I wanted to respond to your reading (61.3.4), but felt like-- I don't understand this hex anymore Maybe when this is done).

There's one reading I did a couple weeks ago that may hold the key (posted it on my old thread but didn't get a response). I had asked:

1) how is this potential relationship similar to the others? 47.2 > 45

2) how is it different? 61.1.3.4.5 > 50.

I get the first answer (I think)

It's the second one that's muddy to me (maybe this would also shed light on Mary F's reading). I really want to be free of this stuff.

Thanks all :bows:
Mary

ETA to Trojan and Diamanda: Thanks for the responses; I rushing off to work now and will reply tonight.

 

[mary f]

Hey!! You'll hear further from me soon. I'll work on it during the weekend.
Anyway, I really liked and tend to agree with what Trojan said.
Cheers.

 

[marien]

Ya Trojan, right you are. This is pretty typical behavior. I'd thought by now I'd wisened up enough to spot it, though he had a pretty good game. And I'll accept my part too, since I let myself get carried away so early on. Least I learned before things went further. And I know there are still some good available guys out there; I just have to learn to be interested in them

Diamanda, thank you. No, I don't want to consider someone like this-- and I should've gauged my own reactions a bit better. So I'm now getting used to this new aspect of 61, it's only that my past experiences were so different. And that made it pretty easy for me to overlook the obvious. I'm hoping that maybe this will turn into a more typical positive 61 experience, and that I'm going to finally get beyond this kind of behavior. This hex has come up in the past related to things like overcoming addiction (it's been twelve years now), reuniting with my Dad, some good jobs, a house, and so on. I'll keep working on it.

I did send the guy an email today. I thanked him for his help and made it clear in friendly terms that the contact was finished.

And I have no more urges to cast on his behalf. Finito.