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- Thread starter sergio
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One day these guys will move into the 21st century AD and perhaps stumble on the language nature of the I Ching and discover its true capability in translating holistic assessments, parallel assessments, of situations into something useful for consciousness to act upon and so be proactive in decision making.
When one of the essays ends with "Because my study of Jung's psychology is just a start, and I am not well versed in English, and this presentation is only based on few materials at hand, it must contains lots of omissions, fallacies, and prejudices. It is my hope that these drawbacks will be criticized and rectified. My original purpose is to gain an entry pass to Jung's ideology by this presentation." there is room for some concern in that Jung's perspective, although useful/insightful, lack empirical research to support such until we move into 21st century AD perspectives grounded in neuroscience, cognitive science, psychology etc.
I suppose Jung's distinctions of "mythic thinking" and "directed thinking" may be useful in coming to grips with Western perspectives but the basics of Chinese traditional language is more mythic than directed and so potential for issues in understanding (mythic thinking has a bias to symmetry and with that comes issues with precision in thought. This is apparent in the traditional texts of the I Ching and to move into a rich level of understanding these material needs to be transcended)
If we then focus on the neurosciences and the foundations of meaning derivation (regardless of style of thinking) we then discover the language nature of the I Ching an the scientifically testable capabilities of the I Ching to predict outcomes given an holistic assessment (where such falls into the class of POSSIBLE outcomes given the nature of our filtering system - the neurology and its senses).
As such it is intriguing that the only path out of the traditional I Ching perspective is one leading into the path of Western scientific thought where we can combine the original insights with some precise research that shows the 'errors' of the original and the ability to fix such and so give new life into the IC.
When one of the essays ends with "Because my study of Jung's psychology is just a start, and I am not well versed in English, and this presentation is only based on few materials at hand, it must contains lots of omissions, fallacies, and prejudices. It is my hope that these drawbacks will be criticized and rectified. My original purpose is to gain an entry pass to Jung's ideology by this presentation." there is room for some concern in that Jung's perspective, although useful/insightful, lack empirical research to support such until we move into 21st century AD perspectives grounded in neuroscience, cognitive science, psychology etc.
I suppose Jung's distinctions of "mythic thinking" and "directed thinking" may be useful in coming to grips with Western perspectives but the basics of Chinese traditional language is more mythic than directed and so potential for issues in understanding (mythic thinking has a bias to symmetry and with that comes issues with precision in thought. This is apparent in the traditional texts of the I Ching and to move into a rich level of understanding these material needs to be transcended)
If we then focus on the neurosciences and the foundations of meaning derivation (regardless of style of thinking) we then discover the language nature of the I Ching an the scientifically testable capabilities of the I Ching to predict outcomes given an holistic assessment (where such falls into the class of POSSIBLE outcomes given the nature of our filtering system - the neurology and its senses).
As such it is intriguing that the only path out of the traditional I Ching perspective is one leading into the path of Western scientific thought where we can combine the original insights with some precise research that shows the 'errors' of the original and the ability to fix such and so give new life into the IC.
pantherpanther
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I recall reading Jung's preface to Wilhelm's I Ching ,more than 50 years ago,
and realizing "he really didn't get it." He got part of it, but not useful
for understanding the I Ching.
Jung was brilliant and he developed a "system," ("archetypes ,"etc .) which was useful
for him and his work but not scientific. (I value his scholarly works and
some of his pupils' work, as Frantz's which have cultural material. Jung declared in
his later years he was not a "Jungian." People have spread his ideas in distorted ways.)
The I Ching is based on precise knowledge of the octave and universal laws.
This knowledge was later transferred to the West. The Chinese model as presented in
the I Ching text is more subjective, contextual and descriptive than the Western,which
is more objective, abstract and prescriptive. It is in the West, as in Pythagoras , like
a representation of the scales that make up the notes in music , while the Chinese model resembles the arpeggios that are formed by the scales. For example ,the model of a mother and a father with 3 sons and 3 daughters.
and realizing "he really didn't get it." He got part of it, but not useful
for understanding the I Ching.
Jung was brilliant and he developed a "system," ("archetypes ,"etc .) which was useful
for him and his work but not scientific. (I value his scholarly works and
some of his pupils' work, as Frantz's which have cultural material. Jung declared in
his later years he was not a "Jungian." People have spread his ideas in distorted ways.)
The I Ching is based on precise knowledge of the octave and universal laws.
This knowledge was later transferred to the West. The Chinese model as presented in
the I Ching text is more subjective, contextual and descriptive than the Western,which
is more objective, abstract and prescriptive. It is in the West, as in Pythagoras , like
a representation of the scales that make up the notes in music , while the Chinese model resembles the arpeggios that are formed by the scales. For example ,the model of a mother and a father with 3 sons and 3 daughters.
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pantherpanther
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Liu Dajun of Center for Zhouyi & Ancient Chinese Philosophy, Shandong University gets it :
In my opinion, the reason why it was difficult for Jung to empirically account for synchronic phenomena lies in that Jung did not recognize the relationship between synchronicity and causality similar to the relationship between “the dark and light”, between “tracing back to the beginning and pursuing them to the end” conceived in the images of the 64 hexagrams. Jung said: “We'd better assume it stands on some rule.” In actuality, though synchronicity differs from causality, both of them can be included in the Yijing 's rule of visibility and invisibility. This rule implicated in the images of the 64 hexagrams often discloses itself in this way: “it manifests itself as kindness but conceals its workings.
Liu Dajun's poetry communicates its meaning despite its translation:
I would like to cite the final part from the poem “A Great Journey” composed by
me in 1973 (during the Cultural Revolution) to close my presentation:
Like a wild crane rousted up by singing sounds,
I swiftly spread the wings and soared to great heights;
Let those misty valleys cast off underneath my sight,
As gifted philosophical thought comes from the blue skies!
In my opinion, the reason why it was difficult for Jung to empirically account for synchronic phenomena lies in that Jung did not recognize the relationship between synchronicity and causality similar to the relationship between “the dark and light”, between “tracing back to the beginning and pursuing them to the end” conceived in the images of the 64 hexagrams. Jung said: “We'd better assume it stands on some rule.” In actuality, though synchronicity differs from causality, both of them can be included in the Yijing 's rule of visibility and invisibility. This rule implicated in the images of the 64 hexagrams often discloses itself in this way: “it manifests itself as kindness but conceals its workings.
Liu Dajun's poetry communicates its meaning despite its translation:
I would like to cite the final part from the poem “A Great Journey” composed by
me in 1973 (during the Cultural Revolution) to close my presentation:
Like a wild crane rousted up by singing sounds,
I swiftly spread the wings and soared to great heights;
Let those misty valleys cast off underneath my sight,
As gifted philosophical thought comes from the blue skies!
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