New Greek elections

[diamanda]

A short summary to put this thread in context, for those who just join this 'thriller'.

There were general elections in Greece in January 2015.
The anti-austerity political party Syriza came first, although without full majority.
They formed a coalition with a smaller party, and formed a government.
In July 2015 there was a referendum (thread here) in which 62% of the people voted 'no' to austerity.

On 14 August 2015, the government/parliament voted for a 3rd round of increased austerity.
On 20 August 2015 the prime minister/government resigned.

Possible next scenarios:
a) a new coalition government, if any of the political parties agrees with any other
b) if no coalition, then new general elections
c) Superman comes and saves the day (unlikely)

The questions I've asked so far (both asked on 21 August 2015):

Will any of the political parties manage to form a coalition without elections?
13
"Fellowship with others on the frontier"
"agree, assemble, affiliate, come together, converge, join, unite, consensual"
It sounds like a yes to me - although at the moment this seems completely impossible.
Another possible interpretation is the exact opposite: people assemble to vote.

Will there be new elections this September?
36.2.6 > 26 (hidden line 11:6)
Someone is hurt but gets saved by another.
Demolition into darkness.
And public life (26).
It sounds to me like there will be some form of short-lived coalition.
But even if there is, the elections are unavoidable.
So, there will be elections, but not in September?

Actually, looking at this answer again, perhaps the wound of the 3rd round of austerity is not fatal.
Someone comes to the rescue.
The antiausterity-turned-austerity syriza gets demolished.
And there's new elections.
But this 2nd version is perhaps a bit too optimistic on my part!

Opinions?
More questions/casts on this by anyone?

 

[taoscopy]

Will any of the political parties manage to form a coalition without elections?
13
I think not.

13 - Company

Making oneself available. Not taking one's own opinions into account. General agreement is impossible.

If they choose to drop their own opinions then they may succeed but it's unlikely.


Will there be new elections this September?
36.2.6 > 26 (hidden line 11:6)

36 - Adversity

One isolates themself to correct the situation.
36 - Adversity

2 - Receiving a wound which will encourage to offer support.

6 - One sees the other rising so they move quickly out of their reach.
In the making
26 - Checking

See that everything is alright. In this way one will find the invisible problems.

A danger will rise (the mention of support suggests budget supervision) and will be avoided by checking, so yes elections.

ETA: there are alternative interpretations for 36.2 (a party envisioning a defeat) but I don't see where that would lead us.
ETA2: 36.2 may be about those 25 MP who have separated, so yes elections, Tsipras will move to get out of their reach by making new elections.
http://germaneconomyonline.blogspot.fr/2015/08/25-mps-return-tsipras-back-world.html

 

[anemos]

Will there be new elections this September?
36.2.6 > 26 (hidden line 11:6)

I don't know if it's a positive or negative answer, but this reading talks about really deep changes, especially 36.6. Are we going to see the end of an era ? I hope so.

Its my opinion that the No was a misplaced No. We have made previous Nos', a flag, but we keep saying yes. I connect h26 with those older NOs, we all know from our history, but this time needs to be said in another way. Has the time come? We shall see.

 

[viviank]

Diamanta I don't see any question about superman!
I agree with both of you about the first question! It seems unlikely the existing parties to form a government! But there is another option! A technocratic government for a specific period to apply the new austerity measures. And I think the second question is backing this up because you can interpret it like this. After a danger of no government period rises (even after elections), maybe EU tries to intervene and the parties here to deal with this will quickly agree to support a technocratic governent! What do you say?

 

[pocossin]

c) Superman comes and saves the day (unlikely)

There is a superman hiding in the wings. It is global recession. When it breaks its flimsy central-bank-imposed chains and moves center stage, It will impose austerity on all of us and solve the Greek problem.

 

[diamanda]

Diamanta I don't see any question about superman!

There is a superman hiding in the wings. It is global recession.

That's Darth Vader, not Superman!

Viviank - good point about the technocratic government - you should have done a cast about it.
I'm very curious about it so I asked just now.

Will there be a technocratic government in Greece instead of an elected one soon?
10.4.6 > 60 (hidden line 61.6)
Great fear and caution, correct steps.
(Someone full of big words but who actually cannot act.)
Limitation / order.
I really don't think this will happen.

 

[viviank]

Diamanta on the contrary it is exactly what a technocratic government is.
Great fear and caution, correct steps.
(Someone full of big words but who actually cannot act.)
This kind of government will have limited capacity and time and very specific tasks.
They won't be able to do more than that. So it fits!

 

[diamanda]

Viviank I agree with you, the answer would be a good definition for what
a technocratic government is.

But my question was not what it is, my question was if this will happen.

It will be interesting to see what happens with this point!

 

[viviank]

Diamanta the likelihood of this option is quite high I think. I also think it was one of the hidden terms for the agreement. No party can apply these measures and survive in the political scene. The cost is too high. That's why.

 

[rosada]

I have trouble getting clear answers from yes or no questions so I asked, "Describe the government of Greece 3 months from now." I received 22.1 (Leaving the carriage and walking) changing to 52.Keeping Still.
Sounds like some sort of austerity program to me.

 

[diamanda]

What an interesting question rosada.
Yes 22.1 does sound like austerity/poverty.
The 52 also might point at government stability.

 

[anemos]

22.1 .> 52 sounds like grexit to me.

 

[anemos]

I asked what is that we , as a a country, should focus on and work towards and got 41.2.6> 24

Superman ?

 

[taoscopy]

I asked what is that we , as a a country, should focus on and work towards and got 41.2.6> 24

Superman ?

Get rid of the international help.

Line 2: do not accept
Line 6: that others come to help

24 can be understood like returning home here, focusing on the interior

41 - Remove

One loses their support and abandons. Accepting the constraints will arouse sympathy.


2 - The difficulty would be too great if one accepted.

6 - Others come to help.
In the making
24 - To return

One returns to see the results of their action.

 

[viviank]

Rosada nice question indeed but you asked for the government not the county, right?
So that sounds that the government will sell the whole fleet of government cars?
No just joking! 22,1 points to simplicity, less is more. Getting things done without using any means. So this government seems that will do things without using political means or something.
Or it means that it will sell quite many means of wealth. I don't know. The ideas are not complete in my head.
But I think you get the feeling.

 

[diamanda]

I asked what is that we , as a a country, should focus on and work towards and got 41.2.6> 24
Superman ?

41.2 - Not decrease/avoid decrease. Increase instead.
Stop austerity and cuts and sell-offs. Start production, develop.

41.6 - Not decrease/avoid decrease. Increase instead. Get servant, not family.
Stop austerity and cuts and sell-offs. Hire employees not relatives, OR, form alliances which are not EU.

Hidden line 27.6 - Source of hunger/food. Dangerous but auspicious. Ford river.
Eating food from your own country. Then maybe some exports too.

24 - Come and go as you please, return home. Or, returns = profits.

So, Maria, damn right this does describe Superman!
Because currently the country can't do any of this, as it is bound by the memorandums.

 

[diamanda]

They have now set a date for the elections (20 September).
I will summarise all predictions and outcomes at the very end - so for now, I go on with new questions.

Will any of the political parties win a self-reliant (i.e. to form a government alone) majority?
40.6 > 64
Someone shoots and kills the hawk, and that's good, but nothing else happens.
So, I interpret this as no, none of the political parties will win a self-reliant majority.

Will Syriza (who had non-self-reliant majority in the previous elections) win the majority again?
35.6 > 16
Using horns to attack his own city/territory, danger, 'an omen of misfortune', and 16, delusion.
Syriza probably 'attacking' the disagreeing members of its own party (who have now all left).
So, I interpret this also as no, Syriza will not win the majority in these elections.

Will LAE (= the ones who left Syriza and made a new party) win the majority in the elections?
50.6 > 32
I am stunned by this answer. I asked the question more for fun, as I don't believe LAE
have any chance at all of winning the majority (as they are a completely new political party).
The answer speaks of a supreme ceremonial cauldron, without food, yet 'very auspicious'.
Totally confused here, don't know what to make of this.

What do you all think?
Any new questions/casts by anyone?

 

[taoscopy]

Will any of the political parties win a self-reliant (i.e. to form a government alone) majority?
40.6 > 64

Yes.

40 - Amending

One makes progress by abandoning what limited them.

6 - After getting ready, one can solve the issues in time.
In the making
64 - Instability

One must show patience and only act knowingly. They are cautious and inform their relatives.

Will Syriza (who had non-self-reliant majority in the previous elections) win the majority again?
35.6 > 16

Well no, you can see clearly that the matching line 16.6 describes a loss of illusions.

35 - Discovery

Answers come naturally.

6 - When others don't like it, one refrains.
In the making
16 - Youth

Youth can be mobilized. It is a period of indecision which will be emerged through involvement.

Will LAE (= the ones who left Syriza and made a new party) win the majority in the elections?
50.6 > 32

They will return to help Syriza (their friends).

50 - Involvement

One is called upon to serve others.

6 - One may return to work to help their friends.
In the making
32 - Perseverance

One must be careful before committing themself, after they must continue.

 

[diamanda]

50 - Involvement
One is called upon to serve others.
6 - One may return to work to help their friends.

Line 50.6 says:
Tripod cauldron with jade handles. Great auspicious. Nothing not favourable.

I don't see anything in this line about "return to work to help friends".
You must be accidentally reading another line taoscopy.

 

[anemos]

Your 50.6 reading is intriguing, at least. Given the situation it's hard to see a yes, yet it talk about something big.

We will know soon.

There are many interesting readings here and I hope I can comment when the time allows me. I still find the Superman idea a valid one and perhaps the only solution. It's not an external superman, tho, but the one in us. Is he sleeping or is he drosy and dizzy.... not sure. But I'm sure he exists.

Good luck to us. May we have the wisdom to make the right decisions.

 

[taoscopy]

Line 50.6 says:
Tripod cauldron with jade handles. Great auspicious. Nothing not favourable.

I don't see anything in this line about "return to work to help friends".
You must be accidentally reading another line taoscopy.

When you've criticized 56.6, I've told you that some comments were really different from the classical ones. Here is one for you. Compare it with your own readings if you maintain a journal.

Your 50.6 reading is intriguing, at least. Given the situation it's hard to see a yes, yet it talk about something big.

I can still fail at interpreting correctly, like I did on this thread: http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?21224-Why-has-X-gone-silent-50-6-gt-32

I thought that the manager was busy working but in fact he told MoonCatcher to return to work

 

[diamanda]

I've told you that some comments were really different from the classical ones.

Yes, and you do state in your signature that "The comments that I use are a new version of the Yi Jing's comments realized under guidance of the Yi (aka God)". I just wanted to make it clear for all to see how your comments have nothing at all to do with the I Ching text. Then the readers can decide for themselves if they will take into account the I Ching version, or your version.

I still find the Superman idea a valid one and perhaps the only solution. It's not an external superman, tho, but the one in us. Is he sleeping or is he drosy and dizzy.... not sure. But I'm sure he exists.

I totally understand what you mean and I agree. I’m hoping that the people will elevate themselves and act with honour and wisdom!

 

[anemos]

Diamanda,
Have you noticed that all your three readings have only one changing line, the 6th.

Wonders if Yi points on something else , besides the actual questions.

 

[diamanda]

Yes I noticed that about the 6th, and I've been thinking about it!
The 6th is where the situation is far beyond the idea of the first hexagram.
Perhaps it just reflects the fact that elections are a decisive moment.
Or it could mean transition - departure from an old situation and beginning of a new one.
(ever hopeful )

 

[anemos]

I honestly don't know. 40.6 sounds as a no but the rest are tricky. It seems to me that yi talka not about the elections but about events sprung from the state we are.

Some ideas have cross my mind but are that crazy that I don't dare to see myself typing them.

 

[diamanda]

Please do share your crazy ideas! Very often intuition speaks a weird language.

 

[anemos]

A few houra before we will know the results asked
Q: today's results, yi please comment.
A: 15.5 >39

Diamanda, its the " attack with force' I was trying to avoid talk about.
.. and still do


Seems that the "solution " will come from somewhere else.

 

[anemos]

They have now set a date for the elections (20 September).
I will summarise all predictions and outcomes at the very end - so for now, I go on with new questions.

Will any of the political parties win a self-reliant (i.e. to form a government alone) majority?
40.6 > 64
Someone shoots and kills the hawk, and that's good, but nothing else happens.
So, I interpret this as no, none of the political parties will win a self-reliant majority.

Will Syriza (who had non-self-reliant majority in the previous elections) win the majority again?
35.6 > 16
Using horns to attack his own city/territory, danger, 'an omen of misfortune', and 16, delusion.
Syriza probably 'attacking' the disagreeing members of its own party (who have now all left).
So, I interpret this also as no, Syriza will not win the majority in these elections.

Will LAE (= the ones who left Syriza and made a new party) win the majority in the elections?
50.6 > 32
I am stunned by this answer. I asked the question more for fun, as I don't believe LAE
have any chance at all of winning the majority (as they are a completely new political party).
The answer speaks of a supreme ceremonial cauldron, without food, yet 'very auspicious'.
Totally confused here, don't know what to make of this.

What do you all think?
Any new questions/casts by anyone?

Will any of the political parties win a self-reliant (i.e. to form a government alone) majority?
40.6 > 64

The answer is No. I guess it's a not yet (64) any of them managed to inspire trust. 40.6 requires a good archer and apparently, no of them has archive that level

Will Syriza (who had non-self-reliant majority in the previous elections) win the majority again?
35.6 > 16

The answer is yes, and it seems he indeed attacked by emboldening the big dilemmas. He managed to gather the majority of the voters.

Will LAE (= the ones who left Syriza and made a new party) win the majority in the elections?
50.6 > 32

The answer is no, they even didn't manage to enter into the Parliament. I guess they need to refine their ideas and present their alternative in a more concrete way.

Just tossing some thoughts....
(How easy is interpreting in retrospect, heahaha )

 

[rosada]

Thanks for the updates! Maybe when trying to interpret yes-or-no questions we need to analyze how the hexagram could mean yes and then how the same hexagram could mean no. Or find a different way to phrase a question.

 

[diamanda]

Maria thanks for updating the thread on the last 3 questions!

I'd like to update on the rest of the questions on this thread (asked by diamanda,
rosada, and anemos), although rosada's question is still to be seen (as it's for two
more months ahead). And I'd also like to further comment on the 3 readings which
all have only the 6th line changing.

Will any of the political parties manage to form a coalition without elections?
13
I thought this sounded like a coalition/union. In the end NO - 13 proved to mean
that large amounts of people congregated 'in the field' to vote. Very tricky answer!

Will there be new elections this September?
36.2.6 > 26 (hidden line 11:6)
YES. Now I realise what this refers to. "Someone wounded but saved by another" = this
was the previous government, who could only pass new laws based on other political
parties (not their own members). In the end they had to 'fall' (36.6) (as they didn't
have the majority in parliament anymore), and 26 = public life = yes, elections. They
avoided elections temporarily in July/August, but they happened in September.

Will there be a technocratic government in Greece instead of an elected one soon?
10.4.6 > 60 (hidden line 61.6)
This turned out as NO. The people voted out of fear indeed, they re-elected the
government (= they agreed to more austerity), the steps were taken as should be
(= elections), and the result is austerity anyway (60). So because the austerity government
got re-elected, there was no need for a coup d'etat (technocratic government).

Describe the government of Greece 3 months from now.
I received 22.1 (Leaving the carriage and walking) changing to 52.Keeping Still
We all interpreted this as austerity/poverty/selling of property - and so far it seems we
were spot on. The bets are still on for this one as there's still time ahead!

A few hours before we will know the results asked
Q: today's results, yi please comment.
A: 15.5 >39
Your neighbours do not enrich you. So you have to invade/expedite. But still, the road is blocked.
A situation where the country is made poorer by the EE. With no other way out.
Exactly what the newly re-elected government represents.
I'd like to add here that every single time I've asked about this EE memorandum,
I keep getting either a straight 39, or a 39 as a result. This will not work it seems.


And the 3 infamous 6th line readings!

Will any of the political parties win a self-reliant (i.e. to form a government alone) majority?
40.6 > 64
NO. The situation is beyond relief. The vulture is hit, but relief still doesn't happen (64).

Will Syriza (who had non-self-reliant majority in the previous elections) win the majority again?
35.6 > 16
YES. The situation is beyond clarity. They attacked their own party, and achieved deceit (16)
instead of clarity (I'm saying 'deceit' because the pre-election promises of Syriza are very
clearly not possible, because of the memorandum they have already signed).

Will LAE (= the ones who left Syriza and made a new party) win the majority in the elections?
50.6 > 32
(the most intriguing answer!) NO. The situation is beyond changing (50). They didn't win the
majority (far from, they didn't even get into parliament). So they wouldn't have a chance at
changing anything at all, and the situation goes on as it was (32).