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New online I Ching reading - requests? suggestions?

hilary

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I'm thinking that this site's free online reading is about ten years overdue for an upgrade. And - hooray! - Ewald Berkers (who created our hexagram search) has the time to build us a new one.

If you have requests or suggestions, now would be a great time to post them. The main things I want are a reading that displays only the relevant text - ie only the lines that are changing, not all the rest - and one that can be saved or printed easily.

What other features and functions are important?

And about the appearance... I'd be happy with one that didn't bother with any animation of rotating coins or stirring marbles or shuffling stalks, but simply showed each line fading into view. What do you think?

Oh, and Ewald is asking me what the button to cast the lines (one line at a time, like on his site's reading) should look like. I have no idea. Anyone?

Thoughts, comments, requests and suggestions warmly invited!
 

bamboo

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I really like that all the lines are shown, not only the ones that are changing. I like your readings page the way it is, far superior imo to those sites where you cast lines one by one, or where you only see the changing lines. gee, do you really think you need to update it? seriously, I cant imagine why! It is one of the few, if not the only, site that doesnt have those other features which just make it more fortune-teller like. I like to be able to see all the lines because sometimes they help one to see the contrast in one's own answer, and also if too many lines change , sometimes the one not changing is most relevant. Dont suppose my objections are going to change your mind much however ; (
 

hilary

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Oh! Well, that comes as a surprise. I suppose I was thinking more of relative newcomers, who can quite often end up reading the wrong lines.

Could include a link to the full hexagram text, maybe. Or highlight the relevant lines and have the rest greyed out... or something... or wait and see what other people think...

...or just keep the old version in addition to the new one, of course...
 
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riurik

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I really like the current version.

On January 4th, 2012 - 21:45 I casted 62 with moving line 2 regarding Hilary's intent to update her online reading software.

For what it worths, I'd say: if there is really a need to update it, make it simplier and only small changes.
 
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Hi Hilary. I have a suggestion but it's pretty sweet the way it is.

Maybe a button at the top of the Home page or a tab that makes it easier to access??

Take care!
 

hilary

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That may possibly be the coolest avatar in the history of the Yijing.

OK... will leave a link to the original; will keep it simple (thank you for casting, Riurik, that's a good reading to have) and concentrate on usability.

Does anyone have any feelings at all about visual design?
 

anemos

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it would be great that the hex will be constructed in 6 steps and not one as in Ewald's site.

Also it might be handy to be able to print it. If I try to print a reading now as a PDF, I can have only the Hexagram Part and not the texts. Texts are not that important (maybe a copyright issue) but the name or number of hex and maybe a date could be helpful.
 

Trojina

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I much prefer to have the whole thing in one without the pretence of constructing it line by line....keep it simple...like it is.....

I don't think its a great idea only to show the relevant lines as that would just mean more people heading over to SR who don' t know what a hexgaram or changing line is
 

ewald

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Apparently, seasoned I Ching diviners here do appreciate Clarity's free reading. However, I can quite well understand why Hilary wants something different, as there are several usability problems with it:

  • Beginners need to read the "manual" first, and "learn" to use it. Many people don't have the patience for that on the internet. If it's designed more clearly, with just the relevant text, more people will start to use it. It's not self-explanatory as it is now.
  • You can't link to a particular reading, to show it to others, on a forum, for instance.
  • You can't easily save a reading for future reference, like into a journal. If you'd want to copy the consultation text, you'd need to copy two pages of text, and find some way to include the hexagrams. Then, there is a lot of irrelevant text there. This is way too cumbersome for most people.
  • Some people feel more connected to an online oracle when it's not just one click on a button that produces the results, but six clicks that build the hexagram. It's more of a ritual.
  • Having two pages in one, with two vertical scrollbars, is a hurdle to many people. Many only use their mouse wheel to scroll up and down, which doesn't work very well with these two framed pages. I haven't tested it, but I think this may be almost impossible to use on a mobile device.
 
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That may possibly be the coolest avatar in the history of the Yijing.
:D Not sure if you are referring to my avatar or not, but if you ARE... You should see the shirt I have with that on it too! I made the design and someone I know put it on a shirt for me. Favorite shirt ever! Those worms, tho we do not want to deal and look at them because they are scary sometimes, we must do it anyways! -18
 

pocossin

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A trivial point but I noticed that the text of 51 is entered twice.
 

Trojina

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Apparently, seasoned I Ching diviners here do appreciate Clarity's free reading. However, I can quite well understand why Hilary wants something different, as there are several usability problems with it:

  • Beginners need to read the "manual" first, and "learn" to use it. Many people don't have the patience for that on the internet. If it's designed more clearly, with just the relevant text, more people will start to use it. It's not self-explanatory as it is now.
  • You can't link to a particular reading, to show it to others, on a forum, for instance.
  • You can't easily save a reading for future reference, like into a journal. If you'd want to copy the consultation text, you'd need to copy two pages of text, and find some way to include the hexagrams. Then, there is a lot of irrelevant text there. This is way too cumbersome for most people.
  • Some people feel more connected to an online oracle when it's not just one click on a button that produces the results, but six clicks that build the hexagram. It's more of a ritual.
  • Having two pages in one, with two vertical scrollbars, is a hurdle to many people. Many only use their mouse wheel to scroll up and down, which doesn't work very well with these two framed pages. I haven't tested it, but I think this may be almost impossible to use on a mobile device.
:confused: why does the online casting tool need to be designed especially for people who are too impatient to figure out how to cast a hexagram ? Why is just 'more people using it' a good idea ? Does that make the site more money ? Could mean SR just ends up with more people who don't want to know how to cast a hexagram zipping straight over there to get other people tell them what it means because they really don't have the time to think about it.

If the object is to increase traffic, I get that...its a business afterall...but why consult existing members about it if the aim of the exersize is really just 'more people using it'

Are vertical scroll bars really a 'hurdle' because people can't consult on their mobiles .....do we have to give in to relentless rushing...no time to figure out how to cast a hexagram, no time to interpret....wheres it all going....eh whats all this rushing for Rushing and shortcuts don't exactly aid Yi interpretation do they.

Do we need to link to readings on the forum ? I don't need to see someones reading drawn in lines, they can just write it like this for example 57.6.



That was a rant :D I don't actually feel that strongly about it but if you just want to know how to get more people in whats the point of asking people already here what they want.

I get the sense the 'seasoned users' you refer to aren't the ones you see the need to appeal to....fair enough but why ask them then ?
 
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riurik

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I must confess :bag: that I had this thought: If I'd like ewald's style, I'd go directly to ewald's site. Maybe just a link to his website would be enough then? :D
 

ewald

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I must confess :bag: that I had this thought: If I'd like ewald's style, I'd go directly to ewald's site. Maybe just a link to his website would be enough then? :D
I have absolutely no objection to that. ;)
However, I think Hilary wants to have her own I Ching text in the online reading.
 

hilary

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:D Not sure if you are referring to my avatar or not, but if you ARE... You should see the shirt I have with that on it too! I made the design and someone I know put it on a shirt for me. Favorite shirt ever! Those worms, tho we do not want to deal and look at them because they are scary sometimes, we must do it anyways! -18
Yes, I do mean your avatar. Good worm. Have you done any other hexagrams?
(I agree, Trojan, the ferret is pretty good, too.)
A trivial point but I noticed that the text of 51 is entered twice.
Ack, see what you mean, will fix that, thanks. (Neat that it happens with a repeated-trigram hexagram.)
:confused: why does the online casting tool need to be designed especially for people who are too impatient to figure out how to cast a hexagram ? Why is just 'more people using it' a good idea ? Does that make the site more money ?
Not particularly, or not directly. Since the online reading is an entry point for a lot of people who go on from there to learn more, if you believe it's a good idea for more people to get to know Yi (which I do, oddly enough), it follows that more people using the online reading is a good idea. And more people finding it usable, intelligible, approachable.

An online casting tool is for people who, for whatever reason, don't want to cast a hexagram. Could be they're absolute beginners not confident enough to do so; could be something else.
Could mean SR just ends up with more people who don't want to know how to cast a hexagram zipping straight over there to get other people tell them what it means because they really don't have the time to think about it.
Or it might not.
If the object is to increase traffic, I get that...its a business afterall...but why consult existing members about it if the aim of the exersize is really just 'more people using it'
Because the aim of the exercise is actually to make a more immediately useful, usable, memorable reading. People here who regularly use the reading might have ideas for what would make their experience better. It would be nice to be able to have someone ask for something and just go ahead and provide it.

Also, I have no clue about visual design at all - no good at visualising things - and I'm aware some people here are naturally visual types.

Do we need to link to readings on the forum ? I don't need to see someones reading drawn in lines, they can just write it like this for example 57.6.
But maybe if you cast your mind far, far back into the mists of history, you will remember there might have been a time when you didn't know what 57.6 said and what it changed to without looking it up.

I hadn't even thought of being able to link to readings, and I love the idea. Click through and read what Yi said, not losing sight of it in what everyone else says. Lots of potential uses. Also, I like that it will make the text, one click away, more easily accessible than the commentary.

I must confess :bag: that I had this thought: If I'd like ewald's style, I'd go directly to ewald's site. Maybe just a link to his website would be enough then? :D
Happily, Ewald is almost certainly capable of designing a page in more than one style. Besides, I already link to his website. :)
What do you mean, that it's constructed in one step? It's constructed in 6 steps (and I hadn't seen that elsewhere at the time I was making this).
She meant that it's constructed in 6 steps on your site and one step here. Parsing issues.
However, I think Hilary wants to have her own I Ching text in the online reading.
She certainly does. (Though with the Legge as a choice, and the option to add others later, remember.)

OK, so so far we have a request for print-ability with a date included - thank you, Anemos. I'm sure that can be done. Don't know about built-in pdf-ability, I imagine that would be considerably more complicated.

Any other requests?

Any suggestions for how it should look? What would you like to click on to cast? Just an old-fashioned button? An image of something?
 

ewald

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A PDF with the reading is not that difficult for me to make. It's just slightly more work than a normal webpage.
Including a date is no problem.
 

Trojina

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Also, I have no clue about visual design at all - no good at visualising things - and I'm
Any suggestions for how it should look? What would you like to click on to cast? Just an old-fashioned button? An image of something?

How about a juggling rat and you click one of the balls the rat is juggling for each line.........:mischief:


....nah its better simple like it is IMO . It may be a bonus here at not being good at viualising because I don't want alot of things spinning about in front of my eyes when i am trying to focus on a question....calm, space, blankness is needed.

One time you asked for ideas about the visual design of the site...ignored all of them and kept it fairly neutral which actually in the end is more user friendly if not so spectacular. I think people can get a bit carried away with visual effects forgetting the actual purpose of it.

However it is updated, even if juggling rats clicked 6 times are included, I hope the 15ish quality is kept
 

anemos

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What do you mean, that it's constructed in one step? It's constructed in 6 steps (and I hadn't seen that elsewhere at the time I was making this).
I know :) I use your site for that reason

A PDF with the reading is not that difficult for me to make. It's just slightly more work than a normal webpage.
Including a date is no problem.
When i want to print something from a site and there is no print option I can right-click- choose print and then instead of printer i can choose to print it as a PDF.

I can do it now, at the current screen , but what I get is only two hex.
 

ewald

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I see now how I misread your sentence about the number of steps.

So, it's not that you want to have the option on the webpage itself, to save as a PDF, but that it's there on your computer, but doesn't work very well with the current online reading. This problem should be away with the new reading, as it won't be split into 3 frames, but will be on an actual single webpage.
 

anemos

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Any suggestions for how it should look? What would you like to click on to cast? Just an old-fashioned button? An image of something?
maybe you could use some elements from the cover of your book.
 

anemos

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I see now how I misread your sentence about the number of steps.

So, it's not that you want to have the option on the webpage itself, to save as a PDF, but that it's there on your computer, but doesn't work very well with the current online reading. This problem should be away with the new reading, as it won't be split into 3 frames, but will be on an actual single webpage.
It would be useful to have that option on the webpage tho. One could save their reading in a digital or printed form
 

pocossin

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It would be very helpful for beginners who are going to ask for a reading in Shared Readings if the casting program also gave the description of the casting, for example 43.5 > 34.
 

ewald

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Ok, I see.
I'm pondering how to make saved readings easy to use. If you save them as PDF's, perhaps there could be some information from the reading in the file name, like the question, or the hexagrams, to make it easier to find something in previously stored readings.

The text would contain your question, the date and time, and of course the text and hexagrams of the reading. Anything else?
 

ewald

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Would it also be handy to have entering something like "43.5 > 34" in a field (or two fields), to display the corresponding I Ching text?
 

pocossin

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Would it also be handy to have entering something like "43.5 > 34" in a field (or two fields), to display the corresponding I Ching text?
I don't think it would help beginners. Those who go from the casting program to Shared Readings often make mistakes in identifying the moving lines.
 
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Yes, I do mean your avatar. Good worm. Have you done any other hexagrams?
(I agree, Trojan, the ferret is pretty good, too.)

Nope, that's the only one SO FAR! I plan on doing a couple others. The computer image I gave my friend to put on the shirt is attached at the bottom of the post...



Ok, I have another suggestion for the Clarity Reader. Maybe have a clear button so that the next reading seems fresh???
 
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ewald

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I'll probably separate the pages for casting and for the resulting I Ching text, so that the casting page will always be fresh, as on my website. No clear button needed, then.
 
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