Objective, subjective, connected and Mayans

[heylise]

Codex Fejervary-Mayer. http://www.tulane.edu/~latinlib/fejervar.html
This Mesoamerican painted manuscript
divides the world into five parts.
Holy trees symbolize the compass points:
east at the top, west on the bottom,
north to the left, and south to the right.

I knew since a very long time the difference between cardinal and fixed signs â?? more or less.
Cardinal sees the world as the source of reality. What you can see, is true. Fixed sees the source inside: what you know with your heart, is true. The inventor of the veil of Maya must have been very fixed.

But mutable was difficult. Probably because I am very mutable myself: 54%, 46% fixed and hardly any cardinal (of course percentages are only a indication). So I see the world as a place where one can learn a lot, but certainly not as anything close to truth.
Then Malka wrote in her mail (discussion, women in I Ching, Sept.21) about connected knowing as the third way to know, first and second being objective and subjective. Or in astrological terms cardinal and fixed.

Nobody is pure one or the other, always a mixture, but usually with the emphasis on one of them. Except Val of course, who is no sign. Maybe the god of fire and thunder in the center could be an image of Val?

I have the above picture hanging above my bed and it intrigues me a lot. I already saw the two figures facing each other at the four sides as cardinal and fixed. They are real solid human beings, and they mirror each other. Cardinal is consciously objective, but subconsciously fixed, and fixed is the other way around. They are worshiping the tree of life.
The plant-structures in between had to be the mutable, but I had no idea what qualities might belong to them.
Now it becomes clear: see the world, learn through it, combine it with your inner knowing, and grow. They look as if they climb instead of worshiping. Or maybe something like torches.
Has anyone an idea about the subconscious part of mutable? And does anyone know more about the meanings of the Mayan map of the cosmos?

Every human has the whole cycle/circle inside. Everyone has 12 houses, so one is not nailed to one of the figures. But everyone's inner painting looks different.

(This is all my own conjecture. I don't know if this 'mandala' means really these things)

LiSe

 

[martin]

Hi Lise,

I don't know what the subconscious counterpart of mutable is, because I link conscious-subconscious with elements (as many astrologers do nowadays). So, earth is the subconscious counterpart of fire and the other way around, and the same for the pair water and air.
In Jungian terms sensation (earth) and intuition (fire) are counterparts and feeling (water) and thinking (air).

If it is also true that cardinal and fixed have a conscious - subconscious relationship, as you suggest, then we can perhaps combine that with the element scheme.
For example, Capricorn is earth/cardinal, so the other half of the pair would be fire/fixed and that is Leo.
The other pairs would be Aries - Taurus, Cancer - Aquarius and Libra - Scorpio.
Not much room left for the mutable signs, only the pairs Gemini - Pisces and Virgo - Sagittarius are possible.
Conclusion: the subconscious counterpart of a mutible sign is ... a mutable sign. Neat!

Of course, this is speculative and maybe also typical for my mercury in mutable Gemini?

About 'having no sign': I wonder if the feeling of having no sign (or falling outside atrological labels) has to do with one or more planets near the cusp of a sign, i.e. in the first or last degree of a sign. It could be that a planet in such a position picks up less of the qualities of its sign, so to speak. The planet would be relatively free, nearly as if it had no sign.

 

[cal val]

Anyone in the mood for Bing Crosby, The Andrews Sisters and Cole Porter?

Oh, give me land, lots of land under starry skies above,
Don't fence me in.
Let me ride through the wide open country that I love,
Don't fence me in.
Let me be by myself in the evenin' breeze,
And listen to the murmur of the cottonwood trees,
Send me off forever but I ask you please,
Don't fence me in.

Just turn me loose, let me straddle my old saddle
Underneath the western skies.
On my Cayuse, let me wander over yonder
Till I see the mountains rise.

I want to ride to the ridge where the west commences
And gaze at the moon till I lose my senses
And I can't look at hovels and I can't stand fences
Don't fence me in.

Oh, give me land, lots of land under starry skies,
Don't fence me in.
Let me ride through the wide open country that I love,
Don't fence me in.
Let me be by myself in the evenin' breeze
And listen to the murmur of the cottonwood trees
Send me off forever but I ask you please,
Don't fence me in.

Just turn me loose, let me straddle my old saddle
Underneath the western skies
On my Cayuse, let me wander over yonder
Till I see the mountains rise.
Ba boo ba ba boo.

I want to ride to the ridge where the west commences
And gaze at the moon till I lose my senses
And I can't look at hobbles and I can't stand fences
Don't fence me in.
No.
Poppa, don't you fence me in


*grin*

 

[heylise]

It feels as if I was quite close with the fire-and-thunder god.
Cannot ever be fenced in.
Beautiful song

LiSe