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Oh NO ! Moments

Trojina

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I thought there might be something to learn from the times we have so badly misunderstood our readings we have actually hindered ourselves. A kind of inverse of the 'Aha moments' thread. I'm kind of inspired by Cyclos points in the thread on open space http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=6851 I could relate to what he said and it made me reflect on all the times years ago when there was noone to speak to about readings to and no books except Wilhelm and a few others like Sam Reifler (who I personally want compensation from for bizarre decisions made in my 20s based on his commentaries lol).

To kick off I remember this misunderstanding (age 21) which while not disastrous outwardly was sort of painful. I was in a job/career path i hated. I couldn't bear it, really couldn't take anymore and just walked out one day. My employers were asking me to come and talk etc but every fibre of my being told me it wasn't the place for me. I asked the Yi about the situation, how i should respond to their request to return and got 24.2. So I thought Yi was saying i had to return :rolleyes: that returning to the place was the thing to do. I sat on the floor and did this :hissy: because i did not want to return but felt i should because the Yi was saying i should so i had a lot of internal conflict, self blame blah blah thinking i had done the 'wrong' thing.
If i had understood the answer better i think i could have moved forward more easily though of course the self blame etc must have been in me anyway...
 
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hilary

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Mm - if only you'd had access to LiSe's website.

Actually, I can't remember a specific 'oh, no!' moment - I must have a very selective memory. One mistake I do remember making more than once before cottoning on: hexagram 61 is indeed very beautiful, but it does not signify a perfect relationship of soulmates. No matter how much (as an incurable romantic optimist) I wish it would.
 

bamboo

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I can only think of "oh NO" moments when i failed to follow advice from Yi....

i think the hex
i'd been most likely to wishful think about was 55. But even so, there seems to be an intuitive internal fail-safe mechanism about readings. when i would be inclined to want to read something as fufilling my wishful thinking, my gut would stay uncomfortably still and numb....no leap of joy, no angels choir, no very distinct feeling of crystal clear alignment that I get when my heart knows that the YI has spoken and I am fully aligned with the truth of what's been told. An example was when I asked about the future of a project and got 55 unchanging. i wanted to interpret it as ABUNDANCE and WELL-BEING, but my gut wasnt having it. my gut was singing the lonesome song about sundown. the project had reached its peak and was onthe way out. the yi knew it and i knew he was right, much to my disappointment.


i think that subtle gut intuitive fail-safe is in place in all situations, not divining only. I remember once meeting my ex and his telling me so much of what i;d wanted and waited to hear. every word was perfect. I was content but after he left, I wondered why my heart didnt sing; i felt strangely still and unmoved, wooden not alive. I realize that's always a clue that truth is not present.
My ex hadnt actually been lying about what he had said, bt i knew, physical sensations, that it was not the truth for us anymore.
 
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Samgirl

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The moments that I can see as "Oh, no" are those when I separate totally the Yi from myself. Not sure if I can explain it properly..., it is when I see the Yi as a separate entity, sometimes hostile, sometimes loving, or when I use it as a "fortune" telling device, about future outcomes. This is when my relationship with he Yi goes wrong, and coincidently, I am out of touch with myself.

I did got wrong many times oracles that seemed negative at first, then getting scared or anxious. Specially when getting hexagrams like 23, 47 or 12, feeling a big "Oh, no!" when I saw the final hexagram... instead of meditating about their meanings, but then I realized that it was my resistance to change the real issue, and that usually they talk about something that is happening in me. I am learning to see those hexagrams and others as beautiful as the "good" ones now.
 

Trojina

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My mistake i mentioned in first post was to do with simple misunderstanding of the actual words. No internet, no sites like this, nothing much except Wilhelm I didn't know 'return' most often was about return to self. I think its very hard to learn about the Yi in isolation, you've no idea of the scope of it...and it never occured to me to learn chinese or anything

I agree with Bamboo most times we do intuitively know the truth about things by our feelings but I think thats something we come to know more as we experience life, our experience shows us how reliable our instincts can be.. but there is also a part of us, and its very evident in new 'querants' in shared readings for example, that doesn't trust our instincts and looks for 'permission' to do A or B. People ask for permission in roundabout ways like "am i meant to have this relationship" and beneath that theres an assumption theres an order and they want to fall in with it. Behind that statement "am i meant to...." lies the old idea that 'I' am not my own authority and this can lead to seeming disagreements with Yi like Cyclo descibed.

I thought Cyclo had some good points in that thread particularly relevant to new diviners..not least he said something like, as a reason for quitting "if i don't understand it should i use it or would i be better not using it". For myself looking back to when i was a young thing i'd say there definately were times I'd have been better finding and honouring my own will in decisions than consulting a book i didn't understand...,maybe thats still often the case lol but at least now I know I may have misunderstood and if all my instincts and everything tell me opposite of what I think Yi is saying I don't often blindly follow Yi....seeing as i probably misunderstood it anyway. :D
 

Trojina

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I may write a book. "The readings I got wrong: A more successful life without the Yi" :rofl:
 

Trojina

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I have a book thats annoyingly called "I Ching: The No.1 Success Formula" by Christoper Markert. I actually quite like the book and still refer to it but "The No.1 Success Formula" bit makes me snarl each time i see it there on the book case :rofl: To titles such as that there really does need to be an antidote ...I mean its not a success formula is it. If it were I'd be.. well more successful than I am...surely richer anyway.

Recalling anther misunderstanding, aged about 20, feeling down threw 47.1. Thought it meant I would be miserable for 3 years, it was fated. Went off feeling doomed,tragic, fated to wander the earth in alienation and misery...when inadvertently something cheered me up and i felt almost happy...then I thought 'no I'm not meant tobe happy the Yi said i was gong to be miserable" :rolleyes: :rofl:
 
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Samgirl

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I have a book thats annoyingly called "I Ching: The No.1 Success Formula" by Christoper Markert. I actually quite like the book and still refer to it but "The No.1 Success Formula" bit makes me snarl each time i see it there on the book case :rofl: To titles such as that there really does need to be an antidote ...I mean its not a success formula is it. If it were I'd be.. well more successful than I am...surely richer anyway.
LOL :rofl: Love that title...!

Recalling anther misunderstanding, aged about 20, feeling down threw 47.1. Thought it meant I would be miserable for 3 years, it was fated. Went off feeling doomed,tragic, fated to wander the earth in alienation and misery...when inadvertently something cheered me up and i felt almost happy...then I thought 'no I'm not meant tobe happy the Yi said i was gong to be miserable" :rolleyes: :rofl:

Yeah! That's my type of stuff! You know? I was asking about a relationship (of course) and received several times 23 with different lines but ominous in any case. I was crying actually, seeing how the world was falling on my head, and suddenly I realize that the Yi was describing my own state, my own disintegration. I had a whole tragedy building up in my room about this relationship just because of a misunderstanding of what I was being told... Well, this didn't happen when I was 20... it happened two days ago. :blush:

Oh well, ... I don't know if this happens to everyone, but I really think that whatever response I get from the Yi has to do with my own perspective of the issue. I paid attention to this a lot lately. If I am low of energy or spirit, the answers I receive will highlight this point; if I am full of energy or spirit, the responses I get are a lot brighter. This makes me think that the Yi shows me situations through my eyes. So that helps me a lot to know what type of questions are more relevant in the end.
 

rodaki

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:rofl:

I'm sure we've all given Yi lot's of laughs trying to understand it's answers, lol!

My most often 'oh nos' go like this: I ask a question and upon receiving Yi's answer I go into a feverish search of meanings: check various translations, dwell on the image, search here for real-life interpretations, exhaust the meanings trying to uncover the hidden and complex meaning that's been given . . sometimes spent hours reading (after a point not really understanding what I read, but still persisting) only to realize that the names of the hexs said it all! . . talk about a greek trying to understand chinese! (where 'looks chinese' is the greek equivalent of 'seems greek'! lol)

but the best of them I compare to fishing: I approach the sea of Yi really hungry and with the intention of making the best of anything I will be given, I throw my lines and fish out a strange-looking creature that stares at me saying:'I'm all yours!' :eek:
(long ago:'Yi, how should I behave towards him?' -Yi: 'Well, if you really wanna know, 50.6!'
-:confused:, oh no! what on earth??:duh:no idea how sacred cooking vessels behave:duh: why did I have to ask that?:duh:)

I'm sure Yi bursts out in laughter!:rolleyes:

rodaki
 

fkegan

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Hi folks,
The Yi poetry is always more illustrative than a Cosmic certainty--though I have too often gotten hex 18 and quite literally found it was 3 days later when things started to change and another 3 days to get going fully.

The overall principle to remember is that a Yi oracle is a description of the state of things here-and-now, a tangent drawn from the instantaneous trajectory of the Tao or Cosmic Flux. Even future predictions are not set in stone, only the likely course of current momentum until something changes. Casting the oracle will describe the state of things as you cast it; but your reaction to your Yi oracle is a new force with the power to change that momentum.

If you cast an oracle that indicates a future you clearly do not like, especially one with poetry calling for years of ugliness and bad times you do not like--THEN you should do something to make things different and the prior oracle ceases to be valid. Throwing the coins again is generally NOT a way to change anything really, but getting up and interacting or changing or making something new occur is. The oracle is not a source of final judgment rather a technique to give a glimpse into what is the topography of your current reality. The whole point has always been to use the information to see what you can't see on your own so you can decide not to step into the pit in the abyss not that you accept your sad fate and keep stepping blind knowing that next step is going to really, really hurt a lot.

Frank
 

Trojina

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Hi folks,


If you cast an oracle that indicates a future you clearly do not like, especially one with poetry calling for years of ugliness and bad times you do not like--THEN you should do something to make things different and the prior oracle ceases to be valid. Throwing the coins again is generally NOT a way to change anything really, but getting up and interacting or changing or making something new occur is. The oracle is not a source of final judgment rather a technique to give a glimpse into what is the topography of your current reality. The whole point has always been to use the information to see what you can't see on your own so you can decide not to step into the pit in the abyss not that you accept your sad fate and keep stepping blind knowing that next step is going to really, really hurt a lot.

Frank

:confused: Yes that was exactly my point. That was why it was an 'oh no ' moment. The oh no moment was not about the answer but about the misunderstanding of the answer, the 'oh no' of seeing with hindsight 47.1 never did mean there was going to mean 3 years misery but to move on out of the doldrums You obviously didn't get my meaning at all. My post was explaining how I missed the point and then you come along and tell me i missed the point...but you missed the point...aargghh :D
 

rodaki

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'OH NOS' in action!:D

(no offense intended here :rolleyes:)

rodaki
 

charly

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'OH NOS' in action!:D
(no offense intended here :rolleyes:)
rodaki
Dora:

Some greek connection might apport something:

One of the Greek oracles, the sibyl at Cumae, used to write the separate words of her prophecies on leaves and then fling them out of the mouth of her cave. It was up to the suppliants to gather the leaves and make what order they could.

- Charles O. Hartman, Virtual Muse, 1996
From: http://www.questia.com/googleSchola...v796n9ChLG5Z8Kd4F!-919907679?docId=5000561006

Maybe more darkness.

Yours,

Charly
 

rodaki

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hi Charly!

my 'oh nos in action!' comment was meant on this:

My post was explaining how I missed the point and then you come along and tell me i missed the point...but you missed the point...aargghh :D

I should have made it clearer from the start:rolleyes:

You're right, greek oracles also had their share in dark/obscured meanings, I guess I would probably find them also to 'seem chinese (or 'sound greek'? :eek: hm . .) That article seems very interesting, too bad I can't access it whole . .

:bows:
 

charly

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...That article seems very interesting, too bad I can't access it whole . .
dora:

It's the bad side of privatism and copyrights. I go to seek for something more.

If you can read greek, why could you not read chinese? I don't understand. Time ago english was chinese for me. I'm not sure if it does not continue being.

Yours,

Charly
 

rodaki

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If you can read greek, why could you not read chinese? I don't understand. Time ago english was chinese for me. I'm not sure if it does not continue being.

Yours,

Charly


. . . so many things to learn, so many books waiting to be finished . . perhaps in time I could :)

D
 

fkegan

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:confused: Yes that was exactly my point. That was why it was an 'oh no ' moment. The oh no moment was not about the answer but about the misunderstanding of the answer, the 'oh no' of seeing with hindsight 47.1 never did mean there was going to mean 3 years misery but to move on out of the doldrums You obviously didn't get my meaning at all. My post was explaining how I missed the point and then you come along and tell me i missed the point...but you missed the point...aargghh :D

Hi Trojan,
We seem to have equally not gotten the post of the other. I wasn't saying that you missed the point at all. Rather, my comment was that it is possible to change the situation and thus make the oracle no longer relevant. That is not about 'getting the point' but changing one's belief to oracles are information rather than Divine Judgment.

There are folks who continue to believe Oracles are fixed judgment and the ancient words are what the oracle is all about which is an OK belief as long as you accept having your cow stolen by a passerby or your nose sliced off from time to time.

I am not quite clear what your aargghh is all about. I suspect there may be a paragraph or two of explanation of what is on your mind that I missed since it wasn't in your post.

Frank
 

charly

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... There are folks who continue to believe Oracles are fixed judgment and the ancient words are what the oracle is all about which is an OK belief as long as you accept having your cow stolen by a passerby or your nose sliced off from time to time...

Frank:

How much truth there is in your words!

If sometimes passerby takes our cow, if sometimes we crahs our nose it could be acceptable, but not always, not each time we arrive to a certain crossroad of the YI.

Getting oracles is always a personnal affair, the same words can tell different stories to different people or to the same people at different moments.

Words (or better, chinese characters) remain but meanings pass. All the time are passing.

Yours,

Charly:bows:
 

hilary

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I think we're agreed that the basic point of being given a bad omen is so we can find ways to avoid the disaster. Those 'ancient words' are startlingly useful in sparking off recognition of personal meanings/stories, and galvanising us into action. Getting the dire omen and sitting down to wait for the worst to happen is decided 'Oh no' territory.

One note of caution: "Oh, I know what the danger is now, so it's not a problem any more" is another tried and tested source of ohnoes.
 

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