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On Hexagram 1 unchanging

august moon

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I received hexagram 1 in response to the question "Does he regret losing me?" I have no idea how to interpret this.
 

dobro p

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I received hexagram 1 in response to the question "Does he regret losing me?" I have no idea how to interpret this.

Neither do I, but that's cuz you've asked for information about what's going through another person's mind, which is a clumsy application of the oracle, I believe.

But what the Yi *seems* to be doing here is shifting your attention from your concern with his possible regrets (I mean, what difference could that possibly make to the situation - it's not what he feels that counts as much as what he *does*, right?) to a message either about him or about you. The Yi seems to be saying: creative energy is moving through this situation, and this is a very good thing. Which either means that his losing you is a very good thing (maybe he needs to meet up with somebody else, or maybe you do; or maybe one or both of you need the lessons of the heart that a split brings), or that you need to open up to the creative energy at your disposal which can flow through you right now.
 

Tohpol

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I received hexagram 1 in response to the question "Does he regret losing me?" I have no idea how to interpret this.



I think Dobro is spot on.

There's actually pretty powerful foundations to some creative life experiences here. Just gotta let things heal and recover. But the seeds are there and growing. That's how I see it. A bit of faith is needed.

It's a nasty business August M. It's messy, painful, tedious, frustrating and....it eventually means that we can go forward to better things that bit stronger and wiser..hopefully.

On the type of questioning IC seems to get a bit cheesed off when we ask about how others are feeling because it usually means we want to massage our own feelings in order to give our broken heart/bruised ego some respite. Been there, done it many times.

I actually got hex 1 yesterday asking what the hell am I meant to be doing with my life? ;) From other indications the answer in hex 1 was that the time factor and patience will allow the new creative energies to refresh things. You're under starters orders! And eventually, if you just let things tick over and nourish yourself you'll be off belting down the track again!! So, hang in there and know that the crappy times won't last. Time to let go of the past and usher in a future worthy of your highest aspirations.

topal
 

mercury

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I agree with Dobro. I can't tell you how many times I've asked quesitons about situations or relationships only to get a seemingly confusing answer that became crystal clear once I applied it to myself -- usually to my "best" self. It seems to be telling me "well, don't really worry about that -- this is what's REALLY going on."

If I got that reading I'd be pretty glad, and feel that there were a host of possibilities and energy available to me, regardless of what this other person thought or didn't. Yi might be saying, "You've got everything you need and more -- don't worry about feelings in someone else's head that could change tomorrow."

I know it can be hard to get to that when you're talking about ended relationships (boy, do I) but that's what I think it means.
 

bradford

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I received hexagram 1 in response to the question "Does he regret losing me?" I have no idea how to interpret this.

In spite of things said above being sometimes true, I still think it's important that we make solid efforts to understand the reading in terms of the question, which was about him and whether he has regrets.
In this context, I'd submit something like: we each have our lives to live, our own destinies to work out, and this is a lot of work. Sometimes the common causes we make with each other last only as long as we are moving on parallel paths. When those paths and purposes diverge we pull apart and go our separate ways. The dragon is not a herding animal.
 

mudpie

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Even though I think the Yi can be "abused" by too many futile questions about relationships in the form of "(s)he loves me , (s)he loves me not"...well maybe not abused, but misused.... I ALSO feel that it will very effectively give you a glimpse of what you are dealing with in terms of another person's stance. Many, Many times it has given me an accurate "heads up" on the way another person is thinking/feeling/behaving.

If this particular reading were mine, I would interpret the response as saying that no, there are no regrets ( unfortunately :() and that the person in question is in a position of strength and forward movement, rather than looking backwards. It doesnt have to mean he/she doesnt miss you...it could mean new determination...but regret is not a characteristic of hexagram one. IMHO
 
B

bruce_g

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Yep, I'm inclined toward Listener's view here. I've recently inquired about what a dear friend was going through inside; not for personal gain but to understand more clearly how I might help. If I inquired for sake of my own personal advantage or security, I think Yi would have polarized the response, and speak to my own inner condition.

Much as I hate to admit it, motive is sometimes pivotal.
 
B

bruce_g

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If we're interpreting literally, as Brad suggests, then I would take 1 as a "yes" to "Does he regret losing me?"
 

freemanc

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Was delighted with the readings of Dobro, Bradford, others... one or two little things.

I also thought that you were being redirected in a witty way: Y was saying something like: "HEY, look, there's a change in era...for YOU! The dragon is on the wing, rain is in the offing, the very shape of your heavens is to be reordered, and the calendar is being rewritten. Good stuff writ large for you, if you will but see it that way.

I also felt that the other side of the coin was that you were being answered: no... no regrets on his part.

A couple of the readers didn't like the question, in a way, that it was sort of crude to throw relationships head-on into a reading... but I note with interest that Listener felt compelled to put "abused" into scare quotes... and this seems right. It really isn't an abuse, but the feeling I think we share is something more like, yeah, go on, throw paint at the wall if you must...(Sometimes you must!)... but try to be more subtle, more... reflective... when you try to get the feathers to settle (That's a gruesome mixed metaphor, I know)...and know that when you look into the I Ching the I Ching is looking at you: You can ask about "him" or "her" if you can stand an answer that is about "you."
 
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lightofreason

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I received hexagram 1 in response to the question "Does he regret losing me?" I have no idea how to interpret this.

depends on if the question is symmetric or asymmetric.

Symmetric is "Does he regret losing me? (As much as I regret losing him)"

Asymmetric is "Does he regret losing me? I hope he does the little sh*t! - show me how he is suffering!"

hex 01 overall covers perseverence doubled to single-mindedness. It is competitive; self-focused; emphasis on combat to refine one's skills (we thus pick fights solely for training one's skills in fighting - nothing more ;-)) - gets into issues of self-devotion (as compared to 02s devotion to others), expressions of anger, to replace some context with one's own etc etc.

Chris.
 

august moon

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Interpretations all over the map. My.

Can one/should one ask about someone else's mind/state? Some say yes, some say no, some say kinda-sorta. Some say it's all about oneself no matter what. I am in no condition to figure out if it applies to me, or what my "best self" might be, because in no way do I feel anything positive or creative or forward-looking.

My motivation?...I am in a world of hurt here, trying to figure out what remains true. Only from a point of truth can I go forward.
 
J

jesed

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Hi august moon

Just in case comment could be useful

With mathematical method, hex 1 unchanging for a yes/no question is NO. But I would need to know the month and the day when you casted the answer, in your local time, to be sure there no exceptional rule to apply.

Now, in the tradition I had learn (and my experience), hex 1 unchanging doesn't answer your question, but reflects that you are attached to some kind of stubborness about the issue. Is like a gentle human adviser that tells you: "ok, I understand why you are doing this, but asking me that won't help you".

Best wishes
 
J

jesed

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ps...

I hope not to be rude, but is this about James?.... if it is so, you can see how the questions about "how he feels" didn't help (according with WF's interpretation of those questions, he was thinking in you and was your real love, and you will be together....)

I'm saying this not to hurt you, or muck on you. On the contrary, because after your answer 1 unchanging, and rereading those previous post, I would like you can avoid that kind of unuseful use of the Yijing.

Best wishes
 

willowfox

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I received hexagram 1 in response to the question "Does he regret losing me?" I have no idea how to interpret this.


As this is a simple yes/no question, then Hex 1 represents a positive answer, so therefore the answer is Yes, he does regret losing you.
 

dobro p

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Yep, I'm inclined toward Listener's view here. I've recently inquired about what a dear friend was going through inside; not for personal gain but to understand more clearly how I might help. If I inquired for sake of my own personal advantage or security, I think Yi would have polarized the response, and speak to my own inner condition.

So, you're saying that if you had asked the same question out of mere curiousity about your friend's feelings, that you would have drawn a different hex, right?

Much as I hate to admit it, motive is sometimes pivotal.

I think motive is always pivotal, as is attitude, the emotion involved, and the level of being of the person asking the question. In a word, sincerity is pivotal.

The more I use the Yi, the more I see it as having a *huge* bias that favors any kind of spiritual learning or action. The more I use the Yi, the more I see each hexagram as being a major spiritual lesson in itself. And if that's the case, then it's going to be most useful when you're using it for some sort of spiritual engagement. (Helping a friend is spiritual, I think. So you got a direct answer to your question.)
 

dobro p

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Interpretations all over the map. My.

Can one/should one ask about someone else's mind/state? Some say yes, some say no, some say kinda-sorta. Some say it's all about oneself no matter what. I am in no condition to figure out if it applies to me, or what my "best self" might be, because in no way do I feel anything positive or creative or forward-looking.

My motivation?...I am in a world of hurt here, trying to figure out what remains true. Only from a point of truth can I go forward.

Yup, par for the course here. I despair sometimes at the complete range of interpretations people get here, both because I wish that people familiar with the oracle would tend to agree more often (I mean, people who are wise almost always agree on the truth, right? So that just means we're not very wise, and therefore not very helpful to the people who come here...) and because it can really confuse people who are sincerely looking for guidance.

"My motivation?...I am in a world of hurt here, trying to figure out what remains true. Only from a point of truth can I go forward."

I believe in a variation of what you've just said. I believe that only by knowing yourself can you go forward. And knowing yourself right now means knowing that extending from the surface of you and going quite a way down, there's a ton of pain. The problem with knowing the truth of that pain is obvious: it hurts and it's hard to keep attention on it; it dazes and dulls you and you need help to get through; it distracts you from your deeper self which is remarkably free of the pain (I mean, I distract myself from my deeper self when I'm feeling fine; I distract myself even more when I'm upset.)

If you're game for it, I'd like to make a request of you, which is also in the nature of an experiment for all of us. I'd like you to ask the oracle how best to handle what you're going through right now, and I'd like you to share the result with us. I'm thinking that there will be a far greater measure of consensus on the interpretation. Would you be okay with taking another chance with us?
 

Trojina

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Actually I think there is a great degree of consensus in the posts. The only one I don't agree with is wfox's. Overall the message seems pretty loud and clear - in an nutshell he isn't missing you (in the way you would like) because he is busy attending to his own destiny - your destiny is also in a pretty creative phrase. Being in pain doesn't change the fact that you are in a creative phase, and it wouldn't necessarily be something you feel on an emotional level anyway.

Alot of growth and good change comes through alot of pain, its the same for all of us and I imagine all of us have felt the pain you feel now. Its a thing you have to move through and sometimes just feel it and live with it. If you want to move forward from a 'point of truth' you have likley to move from the point of pain - rather than from the
point of asking for the pain to be assuaged.

I don't think there is a fit all best way to handle pain. If you ask the above suggested question it will be yours alone, IMO.
 
B

bruce_g

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So, you're saying that if you had asked the same question out of mere curiousity about your friend's feelings, that you would have drawn a different hex, right?

Seems an odd question to me, since I don't ask about what's going on in someone else out of mere curiosity. I see Yi as addressing everything on a 'beneficial to know' basis. No hard, fixed rules about it. I try to stay open and grasp something which clarifies the matter.

I think motive is always pivotal, as is attitude, the emotion involved, and the level of being of the person asking the question. In a word, sincerity is pivotal.

I agree, except sincerity is a bit too wishy washy of a word for me. AM's question seemed sincere, but her motive may have been to do nothing more than to pander to her insecurity, gain a sympathetic ear, or an affirmation that she has the right to feel hurt. I think that some people find this sort of use offensive, or at least uniformed. It's hard to get through to someone who is fixed only on what they want to know, and not open to what Yi may be trying to correct in themselves. It's even harder for someone else to interpret a clear answer for them, hence these disagreements.

The more I use the Yi, the more I see it as having a *huge* bias that favors any kind of spiritual learning or action. The more I use the Yi, the more I see each hexagram as being a major spiritual lesson in itself. And if that's the case, then it's going to be most useful when you're using it for some sort of spiritual engagement. (Helping a friend is spiritual, I think. So you got a direct answer to your question.)

I know of no word more ambiguous and subject to interpretation than the word "spiritual". We have yet to prove that spirit even exists. Spiritual can mean the spirit in which something is intended, or something of the spirit, or of The Spirit, or it can mean something written in stone, like the Ten Commandments or Eightfold Path. I could only try to interpret what you mean by 'spiritual'. Maybe I should ask the Yi, out of mere curiosity. :D
 
B

bruce_g

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Would y'all agree that Yi's primary usefulness is to gain objectivity, usually about something we're subjectively invested in? If this is true, then asking about someone else seems fair play, so long as we're (really) seeking to gain greater objective understanding.

Somewhere I recall Jung as describing the essential question to Yi as: What is really going on here?
 

dobro p

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Seems an odd question to me, since I don't ask about what's going on in someone else out of mere curiosity. I see Yi as addressing everything on a 'beneficial to know' basis. No hard, fixed rules about it. I try to stay open and grasp something which clarifies the matter.

In that case, I didn't understand you, and you've cleared that one up for me.

I agree, except sincerity is a bit too wishy washy of a word for me.

By 'sincere', I mean the attitude which is as far as possible from self-deception. When you're sincere, you're not fooling yourself. When you're sincere with me, you're not trying to fool me or make me think you're something you aren't. Sincerity is like honesty with yourself and with others. It's a powerful force for what the new age often calls 'personal development'. If you fool yourself, you get nowhere.

I know of no word more ambiguous and subject to interpretation than the word "spiritual". We have yet to prove that spirit even exists. Spiritual can mean the spirit in which something is intended, or something of the spirit, or of The Spirit, or it can mean something written in stone, like the Ten Commandments or Eightfold Path. I could only try to interpret what you mean by 'spiritual'. Maybe I should ask the Yi, out of mere curiosity. :D

Or maybe you should have asked me what I meant lol. I didn't use to like the word 'spiritual', for the same reasons you've listed. But now, I like it a lot. When I use it, it means something like 'related to learning and doing what's necessary to rise to a new and different and better level of being'. Like Hex 46, applied to one's level of being. The Buddha was on a higher level of being than you or me. Anything that we do in the way of learning or doing that gets to a higher, stable level of being is spiritual. So, for instance, watching a movie is almost never spiritual. But keeping a diary might be if it directed your attention inward enough times or intensely enough for you to actually see something about yourself you hadn't seen before - that's knowledge. And if the thing you saw in yourself was an obstacle of some kind - anger, for instance - then any effort you made to weaken or eradicate that anger would be a spiritual effort.

But if you don't like the word, I'm happy to use 'developmental' instead.
 

august moon

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Yup, par for the course here. I despair sometimes at the complete range of interpretations people get here, both because I wish that people familiar with the oracle would tend to agree more often (I mean, people who are wise almost always agree on the truth, right? So that just means we're not very wise, and therefore not very helpful to the people who come here...) and because it can really confuse people who are sincerely looking for guidance.

"My motivation?...I am in a world of hurt here, trying to figure out what remains true. Only from a point of truth can I go forward."

I believe in a variation of what you've just said. I believe that only by knowing yourself can you go forward. And knowing yourself right now means knowing that extending from the surface of you and going quite a way down, there's a ton of pain. The problem with knowing the truth of that pain is obvious: it hurts and it's hard to keep attention on it; it dazes and dulls you and you need help to get through; it distracts you from your deeper self which is remarkably free of the pain (I mean, I distract myself from my deeper self when I'm feeling fine; I distract myself even more when I'm upset.)

If you're game for it, I'd like to make a request of you, which is also in the nature of an experiment for all of us. I'd like you to ask the oracle how best to handle what you're going through right now, and I'd like you to share the result with us. I'm thinking that there will be a far greater measure of consensus on the interpretation. Would you be okay with taking another chance with us?

I did as you asked and using Ewald's online coin-tosser, I got 28.3.6 -> 6. I also tossed real coins and got:

2H
2T
2H
2H
3T
2T

Since I am (as I have mentioned in another thread or 2) often caught between two evaluation systems, I shall leave to you all the figuring out of which hexagrams this results in. I am lately chronically underslept and my brain is probably not firing on all cylinders anyhow.

If only there was a solid bottom
to this swamp
but with a lying lover
is there is no
at long last
finally
yes from here
I can set off.
All the shared moments
wobble mirage-like on the horizon
behind you
doubt-storms obliterating
all points of reference
distorting colours and sound.
How to extricate yourself?
It’s not like an everyday acquiescence
a love’s natural termination by
by Time’s attention deficit disorder –
“Ah, yes, I’ve been here before…
I must turn here to get through.”
All the scraps and souvenirs
of what you believed happened
by which you organized your love’s moments
are sullied and mired
disintegrating in the swamp bottom slime
No solid ground from which to take that first step
towards redemption.
The only truth of which you are very sure
is that you’re hemorrhaging at your very core.
 

dobro p

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"I also tossed real coins and got:

2H
2T
2H
2H
3T
2T

Since I am (as I have mentioned in another thread or 2) often caught between two evaluation systems, I shall leave to you all the figuring out of which hexagrams this results in. I am lately chronically underslept and my brain is probably not firing on all cylinders anyhow."

1 I don't understand the 2H, 2T, 3T thing - can you explain it?

2 Do you think it might be time to contact the medical person in your life who you can ask for some sleeping meds? There's no way you're going to deal with this if you're whacked on lack of sleep - it just keeps you so sub-par that you're dazed.
 

august moon

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Line one was 2 tails, line two was 3 tails, etc. I listed them as they would be if I were writing them down, from the bottom up.

I am one of the 43 million Americans who have no health insurance. What a great country. I do have some sleeping pills, and I do resort to them sometimes, but while I may sleep, I will also be pretty useless for the entire next day. Not because of the pill/dosage being too strong, since I still wake up in the middle of the night yet am able to go back to sleep quickly, rather than gnash and gnaw in my mind and also I wake up at the usual hour. But because they seem to depress the whole physical system as well.
 

dobro p

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Line one was 2 tails, line two was 3 tails, etc. I listed them as they would be if I were writing them down, from the bottom up.

I am one of the 43 million Americans who have no health insurance. What a great country. I do have some sleeping pills, and I do resort to them sometimes, but while I may sleep, I will also be pretty useless for the entire next day. Not because of the pill/dosage being too strong, since I still wake up in the middle of the night yet am able to go back to sleep quickly, rather than gnash and gnaw in my mind and also I wake up at the usual hour. But because they seem to depress the whole physical system as well.

Okay, I'm not going to interpret your coin toss, cuz you're using a very unorthodox method that I don't know how to translate. So I'll use the online result you got, 28.3.6:>6.

What you got talks about going well beyond what's normal for you, so on the one hand, the Yi's telling you that the situation you're in AIN'T NORMAL - in other words, it isn't go to be like this forever even if it seems that way right now, and on the other hand, *you* have to go beyond your usual responses if you want to deal with this. Hey, you know what a psychological crisis is, right? That's when you're faced with a situation that your skillset can't cope with. My feeling from what you've said about your feelings, plus the poem you wrote, plus the sleeplessness is that you're in crisis right now. So how do you go beyond your normal skillset? I dunno, but I think the heart of it for someone in your shoes is to get some help, which is a primary way of going beyond what's normal. Get to your doctor and describe the physical and psychological conditions you're dealing with and ask for some help. If it's just a prescription for more pharmaceuticals, ask for a referral to a counsellor, cuz you need to TALK as well as sleep. Talk about what? Well, the Yi has highlighted that for you in the second hexagram: the conflict in your mind, heart and soul over the pain of the break.

Good luck with this. Get some trained people on your side with this - they'll help you maintain some balance during the worst of the storm.
 
B

bruce_g

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By 'sincere', I mean the attitude which is as far as possible from self-deception. When you're sincere, you're not fooling yourself. When you're sincere with me, you're not trying to fool me or make me think you're something you aren't. Sincerity is like honesty with yourself and with others. It's a powerful force for what the new age often calls 'personal development'. If you fool yourself, you get nowhere.

Yes, I see what you're saying. Genuine is how I'd describe it. And not only with the Yi but with everyone and everything.



Or maybe you should have asked me what I meant lol.

Ain't that the truth. But then there'd be half the posts to this forum than there are now.

I didn't use to like the word 'spiritual', for the same reasons you've listed. But now, I like it a lot. When I use it, it means something like 'related to learning and doing what's necessary to rise to a new and different and better level of being'. Like Hex 46, applied to one's level of being. The Buddha was on a higher level of being than you or me. Anything that we do in the way of learning or doing that gets to a higher, stable level of being is spiritual. So, for instance, watching a movie is almost never spiritual. But keeping a diary might be if it directed your attention inward enough times or intensely enough for you to actually see something about yourself you hadn't seen before - that's knowledge. And if the thing you saw in yourself was an obstacle of some kind - anger, for instance - then any effort you made to weaken or eradicate that anger would be a spiritual effort.

But if you don't like the word, I'm happy to use 'developmental' instead.

It's a word and concept I vacillate on. On a deeply personal level, I contemplate it unceasingly. On a socially communicative level, I hear it used in so many ways, most of which treat it with so little or no respect or depth that it has become cliché.

On movies, have you ever seen Wings of Desire? Profoundly spiritual. Hell, I even see Spiderman movies as being spiritual, but then he's my modern Mythos hero.

Keeping a diary can be more self obsessive than spiritual, the way I see it; as though 'my life is all about meee'.

This is why I try not to get too knit-picky about which word is right or wrong, or which method is used, concerning the Yi. If the "spirit of the message" is conveyed to the individual, that's all that matters, as far as I'm concerned. Sometimes that appears to be impossible, though, and beating a dead horse won't raise it from the dead.
 

august moon

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Okay, I'm not going to interpret your coin toss, cuz you're using a very unorthodox method that I don't know how to translate.

How is this unorthodox? All I did was throw three coins, 6 times. The first throw is the bottom line, the second throw is the second line, etc. 2T is 2 tails & 1 head, obviously. Likewise, 2H is 2 heads & a tail. Etc.

Since I posted this morning, I have talked with a few friends and it was good to unburden some of my crisis state to them (not on them!) The break-up of the relationship is not the only crisis I am dealing with, but it is the one which cuts my courage to deal with the other.

I also was able to get some truth out of the man in question (yes, James) which has helped me sort out some of the truth and lies. Not all was lies, but finding some of them, things began to make sense. I got about 30 minutes sleep this afternoon and began to digest some of the information. I am beginning to figure out where I am now.

I virtually tossed on this question: "Can I let go now?" and I got 35.5 changing to 12. In Bradford's translation, 35 says "Light is a great antiseptic." And indeed it is, light as knowledge or enlightenment, getting things out in the open.

Now let us see if I can get some sleep.
 

dobro p

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How is this unorthodox? All I did was throw three coins, 6 times. The first throw is the bottom line, the second throw is the second line, etc. 2T is 2 tails & 1 head, obviously. Likewise, 2H is 2 heads & a tail. Etc.

Since I posted this morning, I have talked with a few friends and it was good to unburden some of my crisis state to them (not on them!) The break-up of the relationship is not the only crisis I am dealing with, but it is the one which cuts my courage to deal with the other.

I also was able to get some truth out of the man in question (yes, James) which has helped me sort out some of the truth and lies. Not all was lies, but finding some of them, things began to make sense. I got about 30 minutes sleep this afternoon and began to digest some of the information. I am beginning to figure out where I am now.

I virtually tossed on this question: "Can I let go now?" and I got 35.5 changing to 12. In Bradford's translation, 35 says "Light is a great antiseptic." And indeed it is, light as knowledge or enlightenment, getting things out in the open.

Now let us see if I can get some sleep.


* Okay, your use of the coins is orthodox, but I got confused by the way you'd written it. I'm not sure what values you ascribe to heads and tails though, so I think I'll give it a miss. (Me, I think of heads as yin, cuz there's a picture of the queen on my coins lol, and so tails is yang.)

* Yes, 35.5 is very nice to get, especially relevant to the easing of distress in this situation. Good.

* And yes, get more sleep and stay in touch with people who will listen to you.
 

hollis

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I virtually tossed on this question: "Can I let go now?" and I got 35.5 changing to 12. In Bradford's translation, 35 says "Light is a great antiseptic." And indeed it is, light as knowledge or enlightenment, getting things out in the open.

Now let us see if I can get some sleep.

35 5 is a positive negative, a great antiseptic indeed. "good night moon."
 

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United Kingdom

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+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

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