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elias

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What is the significance of being "on horseback" in the IC? particularly in hex 3 (where one is "on horseback but standing still?)

"Walking" seems to be the preferred mode of travel.

"In a carriage" seems to be discouraged as it indicates pride or ostentation.

"On horseback" Was this a privilege reserved for the military (as it was in Europe during the middle ages?) or is there another cultural understanding?
 

boyler

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Hi elias,

What is the significance of being "on horseback" in the IC? particularly in hex 3 (where one is "on horseback but standing still?)
I think there could be no mention of "on horseback" in the Changes, because the Changes were written at least some 3 or 4 hundred years before the Chinese learned how to ride horses, so this is probably some kind of error in translation :(
Where did you found it?
 

charly

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What is the significance of being "on horseback" in the IC? particularly in hex 3 (where one is "on horseback but standing still?)

"Walking" seems to be the preferred mode of travel.

"In a carriage" seems to be discouraged as it indicates pride or ostentation.

"On horseback" Was this a privilege reserved for the military (as it was in Europe during the middle ages?) or is there another cultural understanding?
Hi, Elias:

I believe like you that WALKING means to be humble, to proceed like the common people.

To go in a CARRIAGE means to be proud, to TO BEHAVE WITH LITTLE SELF CONTROL, to be led by a DEVICE. In later chinese budhism the VEHICLE was a metaphor of the BODY. To GO IN CAR would mean TO BE LED BY OUR LOWER DRIVES.

The question for HORSEBACK RIDING is harder. I understand that even military people didn't ride horses in time of Zhous. Maybe only FOREIGNNERS or OUTSIDERS did it. Say guys like those bandits looking for women in raids over neighboring communities or families.

There is the possibility that RIDING HORSES mean to ride horse-traction vehicles, say carriages, but also could be metaphoric, meaning, like among anciente greeks, TO HAVE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE.

I always wondered why Wilhelm/Baynes rendered "Difficulty at the Beginning" the character tun2 meaning "to station soldiers" or "to store up" which depicts A STALK PIERCING THE EARTH (♀) FROM BELOW while GETTING TALL.

Maybe they wanted to retain the association with sexual intercourse without being too explicit.

But, what happens with the horses? see yourself:

TUN, the name of H.3 appearse twice in the lines, the whole 4-character sequence of READING HORSES appears at 3.2, 3.4 and 3.6.

In lines 2 and 4 it appears followed by two characters meaning TAKING WIFE a COPULATING. In line 6 is followed by TEARS OF BLOOD ISSUING.

Here the 3.2 chinese text with literal translation:

tun2: to station (soldiers) / to store up /
ru2: like / as (if) / such as / supposing /
zhan1: not making progress // hesitant / faltering /
ru2: like / as (if) / such as / supposing /

cheng2: ride / mount // make use of / take advantage of // 4 horses military chariot /
ma3: horse / horse chess piece /(1)
ban1 / team / class / rank / squad / a work shift / a measure word / (a surname) /
ru2 / as (if) / such as /

fei3 / bandit / robber / gangster // evil / damned /
kou4 / bandit / foe / enemy //to invade / to plunder /
hun1 / to marry / to take a wife // marriage / wedding /
gou4 / to marry / to copulate // to be on friendly terms /

nu3: female / woman / girl /
zi3: child / son / seed / fruit / egg / small thing // earl // 1st.terrestrial branch /
zhen1: chaste / perseverance // divination / omen /
bu4: (negative prefix) / not / no /
zi4: character of the chinese script / symbol / word // engaged to marry / (2)

shi2: ten / 10 /
nian2: year /
nai3: thus / so / therefore / then / only / thereupon /
zi4: symbol / character / word // engaged to marry /



STATION-LIKE NOT PROGRESSING-LIKE (3)
Stationed looks like not progressing,
but it's not the case, it will progress.


RIDING HORSES SQUADRIST-LIKE
Riding horses like professionals. (4)
Making it like experienced people.

DAMNED BANDITS GRABBING-WOMEN TO COPULATE
Gangsters looking for women with unreliable intentions.
Of course, if cough in the act, they will promise marriage.

FEMALE CHILDREN OMEN: NO PREGNANCY
Little girls cannot get pregnant.
Or they are insignificant (meaning-less). (5)

TEN YEARS, THUS PREGNANT.
Passing time enough then can.
They become significant (meaningful).



I believe that H.3 speaks of GROWING TALL, ACQUIRING EXPERIENCE and BECOMENG ABLE. The metaphor of riding horses have sense.

There are many sexual issues scattered along all H.3, but tha's another story.


Yours,


Charly


__________________________________
(1) 伯六馬伯六 [ma3bo2liu4], n., (MC) one who arranges rendezvous for men and women. [Lin Yutang] With the woman radical mom, mamma.

(2) it depicts a child below or inside a cover like a baby in the womb, then asociated with PREGNANCY. 字人 (of a girl) be engaged to marry [Lin Yutang], in a context where girls were promised by her parents when very little.

(3) I believe that suffixes here indicate that the use is not literal but metaphoric, to be stationary looks like not to be progressing, but it's only an appearance.

(4) Ancient chinese knew squadrons of barbarians shooting while riding horseback. Chinese cavalry went much later.

(5) A symbol or a characterin chinese script is something that bears a MEANING. Little girls were meaningless because of women an because of children. But passing the time , say 10 years, it happens that become MEANINGFUL.

Ch.
 
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sparhawk

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He must be referring to this:

屯 元亨利貞。勿用有攸往。利建侯。
初九 磐桓。利居貞。利建侯。
六二 屯如邅如。乘馬班如。匪寇婚媾。女子貞不字。十年乃字。
六三 即鹿無虞。惟入于林中。君子幾不如舍。往吝。
六四 乘馬班如。求婚媾。往吉。无不利。
九五 屯其膏。小貞吉。大貞凶。
上六 乘馬班如。泣血漣如。

Modern translation of the first two characters call for "riding" whereas Wilhelm, for example, treats it as "carriage" and "horse"[parting].

Elias, are you translating the characters?
 

elias

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I'm looking at some of Thomas Cleary's translations. Where Wilhelm says "horse and wagon part" Cleary has variations of "mounted on a horse but standing still."

"On horseback" as an euphemism for sexual congress would make sense in the first intermingling of yin and yang, comparable to the European "making the beast with two backs" and, as Charly mentions, comparable to the Greek usage of "horseback."

Kerson Huang, who I don't hold in much regard, says the mention of robbers was a bit of folklore concerning a ritualized abduction of the bride. That doesn't explain the horses in lines 4 or 6.

I notice Bradford translates it "a team of four horses arrayed alike"

A few things to think about here.

Thanks, boyler, Charly, Luis!
 
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tuckchang

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The text of Hex 2 states that it is appropriate (or advantageous) to have the fidelity (i.e. the persistence) of a female horse, signifying the feminine Kun should submissively follows the masculine Qian. The feminine lines 2, 4 and 5 of hex 3 ride the horse in seeking the momentum (i.e. the masculine which tends to move) in order to be given birth. Line 3, which is in pursuit of the deer and without a guider, will get lost and had better to give up.

According to the sequence, Zhun is borne after Qian and Kun mated. However, actually the hexagram Kun moved to the direction of Gen (the southwest), a masculine trigram but which consists of one masculine line only. Hence, Zhun is difficult to be given birth.

In my opinion, there is no carriage. 班 (ban1) depicts a jam stone 玉 (yu4) being cut into two pieces and is extended to the meaning: a team (of similar); 乘馬 (cheng2 ma3: riding a horse) 班如 (ru2: like): like encountering horses, side by side, in front.

Regards
Tuck
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charly

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...
Modern translation of the first two characters call for "riding" whereas Wilhelm, for example, treats it as "carriage" and "horse"[parting].

Elias, are you translating the characters?
Hi, Luis:

Here W/B 3.2:

Difficulties pile up / Horse and wagon part.

He is not a robber / He wants to woo when the time comes.

The maiden is chaste / She does not pledge herself.

Ten years then she pledges herself.


I believe that is clear the intention to BOWDLERIZE(1) the received text.


Things are turning hard, CHENG as a wagon is a war carriage, if the horse is runing away puling the carriage, we are left on foot, maybe in middle of the battle. Not a good horse, I believe. We need be much skilled to survive.

Not a robber, but a pretendant. But sometimes pretendants ARE robbers, like the guests of Penélope. If he wants to woo, why is waiting? IF NOT NOW, WHEN? (2) I don't find him reliable, and you?

The maiden is chaste, she waits 10 years to pledge herself. But how old is she? The engagement as a bride doen't depend of her will but of her parents. She must be some experienced, maybe a widow? 10 years is nothing compared with Penelope's 20 year waiting.

What's the moral?

BETTER TO RESIST ROBBERS, BUT NOT TOO MUCH?

If, as Tuck said, ban depicts a JEWELL OR JADE BEING SPLIT BY A KNIFE, maybe the guy is reducing gemstones for passing it in the black market. No good for bridegroom, I believe.

I was observing the character for ROBBER:



kou4
bandits / enemies / robbers / to invade / to pillage / to plunder / a Chinese family name

It is a composite of:
roof, cover
1rst., origin, prime, supreme, now chinese $
pu1, a hand, sometimes meaning action, holding the sign of Shang Bone divination, something like a carpenter square.

Sears read the whole so (3):

one who hits a man in his house - robber
Observethat he proceeds from right to left and then upwards.

What if we proceed inversely?

HIDDEN ORIGINAL ACTION OF HOLDING BONE DIVINATION

The robbers, bandits, evildoers were but clandestine SHANG DIVINERS, maybe the public of the Changes.


I believe that there are much alternatives to render the line, but the sense is that when things demand too much, special skills can be acquired sometimes by storing experiences, sometimes by natural developpment.

Of course, taking out the last word (divination) the sense might become a little disreputable, wich is the effect that bowlderizing tries to avoid.

Abrazo,


Charly

__________________________
(1) To BOWDLERIZE was invented to have a correct version of Shakespeare's works, full of curse words and pornographic allusions.

bowdlerize : 1836, from Thomas Bowdler (1754-1825), English editor who in 1818 published a notorious expurgated Shakespeare, in which, according to his frontispiece, "nothing is added to the original text; but those words and expressions omitted which cannot with propriety be read aloud in a family."
Source:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=bowdlerize&searchmode=none
(2) Hillel.

(3) Sears: Chineseetymology page.
Ch.
 
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elias

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Well-- quite a bit to think about...

I notice that "horse" also appears in 59.1 Quoting Chih-hsu Ou-i "The word for the name of the trigram water also means concavity; on a horse, a slightly concave back is considered beautiful..." (trans Cleary). May "horse" generally be interchanged with Water (as Wood is with Wind)? To slip into Runic interpretative schemes for a moment -- is horse-wagon, horse-team, horse-back etc a kenning for Wind? (or for the sexual act) Of course the "docility of the mare" is a regular theme, particularly in Hex 2, so it logically follows that the image should appear in 3.

May the "split gemstone" imply the pudenda, or the sexual act?

It is interesting that a Greek reference should come up another time. On reading the Tuck's interpretation of a men on horseback pulled up short in a public procession, I immediately thought of just that image in the Elgin marbles from the Parthenon -- near the end of the series.

I am not surprised that the text has been bowdlerized, particularly in Wilhelm.

Thanks, y'all!
 
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sooo

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Interesting thread.

I think of horses as powerful animals, far more physically powerful than any human. It's probably a good thing their frontal lobe has not evolved greatly over time, or we could be serving them. I pass horses on walks, talk to the owners, who train for others on their premises. There is a lot of communication that goes on between a good horse person and a horse, before that horse will trust them enough to be tacked and ridden. To be 'on horseback' would imply to me mastery of the horse, but not necessarily over the horse. The horse could keep his or her spirit, and bring it to the dance. Pulling a wagon up a steep hill requires a lot of can-do spirit. Jumping an abyss requires strength, sure footedness and trust . The patience of a mare, while not as spotlighted, requires at least as much strength and commitment. I'm not a horse person, but I'm awestruck by them, especially wild mustangs. There's likely some archetypal connection we have to horses. Beauty, power, potential----what's not to admire?
 

rodaki

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I ain't very knowledgeable in Chinese history and traditions but I have made sense of the act of riding a horse in yet another way, based on my readings -Elias probably not what you're asking about but this might help . .

For me when a horse comes up in my readings it shows a source of raw natural power, but not one external to me -although I guess that can be as well; however, I most often take it that it is talking about my inner reservoirs of facing difficulties and instinctively finding the way to navigate them. It also shows me my own drive and how I can steer it without it getting scattered or becoming overpowering. In the Yijing it is said that horse is water, a metaphor often used outside of chinese culture as well and one that makes sense as water can be a danger but can also be put into use for irrigation or other purposes.

It also reminds me of the word 'horsemanship' . . the way I understand this though is not describing the ways humans can control or ride a horse but how they can become like one so that they can learn from its nature . . that's how I see it in the Yijing too, a source of instinctive knowledge and power that we can learn to call forth when our usual 'human' faculties run out
 

elias

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sooo & rodaki -- I appreciate your comments and generally agree with your responses to the "horse" idea. Mares and cows particularly indicate strength with docility. It seems odd that stallions are not mentioned, or appear in a disguised form.

What I am trying to get at is what was the cultural understanding of a person who rode on horseback -- if indeed that is an accurate translation of the text.

Was riding only something Mongols did at the time of the origin of commentaries -- therefore something that branded one as an outsider and potentially a robber? Was it something reserved for the royalty and the military?

I find it quite interesting that three of the six lines of Hex 3 -- the first intermingling of yin and yang -- have no settled meaning.
 

bradford

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Horses appear at 2.0, 3.2,4,6, 22.4, 26.3, 35.0, 36.2, 38.1, 59.1 & 61.4.
In half of these the character is trying to be impressive, and in particular, trying to woo a mate by being impressive, usually without luck.
They don't need to be translated as ridden. It is enough in 3 to have a matched team of four with matching accessories. Only in 22.4 does it need to have wings.
In other lines the horse is a vital part of the technology, and in two provides heroic help.
Horses were ridden back then, even back in the Shang, but not very widely. They were mostly used for wagons and chariots.
 
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sooo

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Horses appear at 2.0, 3.2,4,6, 22.4, 26.3, 35.0, 36.2, 38.1, 59.1 & 61.4.
In half of these the character is trying to be impressive, and in particular, trying to woo a mate by being impressive, usually without luck.
They don't need to be translated as ridden. It is enough in 3 to have a matched team of four with matching accessories. Only in 22.4 does it need to have wings.
In other lines the horse is a vital part of the technology, and in two provides heroic help.
Horses were ridden back then, even back in the Shang, but not very widely. They were mostly used for wagons and chariots.
Wouldn't you say the use of horses in Yi is largely anthropomorphic?

Also, wasn't there an element of prestige or implied power in owning horses? From LiSe's 35: "The marquis of Kang benefits of a gift of horses to breed a multitude, mating them three times a day."

I was thinking of the utilitarian aspect too - "He leaves his Ram truck, and walks." Or, "there's 360 horses under that hood." Elias, this is where I think 'riding on horse' is no different from a Dodge truck.

One I always found interesting was in 26.3. Brad, you translate: "A fine horse that gives chase" which is entirely more proactive than Wilhelm's "A good horse that follows others." LiSe has "Fine horses for pursuit." The assertive or passive role of this horse seems important, if we're to derive a meaning from line 3. Perhaps this too speaks to the utilitarian role of horses, before there were Rams 'n Rangers 'n Rovers.
 

bradford

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Wouldn't you say the use of horses in Yi is largely anthropomorphic?
More like symbolic. Of a strength that we anthropos have some access to.

Also, wasn't there an element of prestige or implied power in owning horses? From LiSe's 35: "The marquis of Kang benefits of a gift of horses to breed a multitude, mating them three times a day."
I should have used the word wealth in the context of being impressive. The ladies seem to fall for that a lot, but this doesn't figure in 35, which is more about openness and liberty.

One I always found interesting was in 26.3. Brad, you translate: "A fine horse that gives chase" which is entirely more proactive than Wilhelm's "A good horse that follows others." LiSe has "Fine horses for pursuit." The assertive or passive role of this horse seems important, if we're to derive a meaning from line 3. Perhaps this too speaks to the utilitarian role of horses, before there were Rams 'n Rangers 'n Rovers.
I see a young prince here being groomed to take over a kingdom, not being spoiled at all, but really put through his paces, as though he will be carrying the whole family legacy, the subject of 26.
 
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sooo

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Well, hillbillies use a Dodge truck in their wedding ceremonies.



Squidbilly is happy to lend his trucker's hat to Nebu for his profile picture. :bows:
 
S

sooo

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I see a young prince here being groomed to take over a kingdom, not being spoiled at all, but really put through his paces, as though he will be carrying the whole family legacy, the subject of 26.
Interesting. Sounds like a horse and horseman eminently fit for duty. Still has a utilitarian feel to me.

I like the idea of guardianship of heritage and legacy. Though with liberty to depart from ones heritage, as is more prevalent today, do those old images still work in a practical way? If so, what adjustment needs to be made to make it relate-able? Or should it remain obscure and hidden away to preserve the authenticity, so that maybe a lucky or chosen few will find it? But I suppose that's an artist's question to answer, where the unexpected still blows holes in old ideas. Always the anomaly, to break an otherwise entirely predictable future. Maybe this anomaly also acts as a young prince being groomed for service to lead for the greater good. I rather like that idea for 26.3. But my picture doesn't see him in shiny brass, spit and polish, but full of iron, coal and bellows. Horses require shoes and hoof care.

Sorry, Elias, if my ramble sidetracked your original question.
 

rodaki

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I really enjoy reading this thread . .
I think it shows in my previous post aIready though that I have my doubts about approaching nature simply in a technological manner and that also corresponds to my heritage and what I have absorbed from it. It certainly makes a more 'Yin' approach . .
 

rodaki

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I feel like my previous post needs some elaborating . .

My main relation with Nature was built near or at sea . . It was the first place I was taken to when I was born and I have never lived in a distance more than 800m away from some big mass of water . . plus for 11 years I spent two full summer months living on a boat. Thus whatever approach I have developed comes from dealing, learning and enjoying the sea. I have many many stories to share on that but I'll try to be short here. I know some things about its beauty and freedom but also about its dangers. My heritage comes mostly from seeing the lost fingers in the hands of my maternal grand-dad and uncle, both sea and fishermen, who lost them at sea and I have been a witness of people escaping great danger at sea. Living on a sailing boat also meant that I grew up close to an ideal of co-existence between humans and nature, with as little aim towards overpowering the sea as possible.

What all these things taught and instilled in me was first of all to deeply respect nature -no matter how greatly equipped I might think I am or how powerful I might be feeling, respect towards my own human size and nature's size has always been the basic thing on my mind. I see any other natural element such as a horse in the same way. Seeing it as a tool or an animal to be tamed or giving it human traits would feel like taking away sth from me . . Seeing it as a source of power that cannot be owned but can be called on and lived alongside with, comes closer to the way I grew up . .
 

bradford

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If you're talking about what the Native Americans might call "horse medicine" or spirit power, the Yi has that too, especially at 2.0, 36.2, 38.1, 59.1 and 61.4.
36.2 and 59.1 might avail themselves of horsepower, to get out of a jam.
In the others, riderlessness is the point, whether voluntary or not.
 

elias

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argh. I hate it when I actually have to work when I go to work and lose track of conversations on-line.

Horses and weddings: In Buddhist nuptuals a horse is part of the ceremony. Can it be demonstrated that horses were part of pre-Buddhism weddings in China? Then the images in 3 would take on a bit more focus. I'm still inclined to thinks that something is being disguised here under untranslatable metaphors.

Horse Medicine -- it's interesting that these tend to be quite dynamic "stallion" images, in contrast to the docile mare of 2.

I keep looking for a consistent connection between horses and the water hexagram, but am sadly disappointed.

Though with liberty to depart from ones heritage, as is more prevalent today, do those old images still work in a practical way? If so, what adjustment needs to be made to make it relate-able? Or should it remain obscure and hidden away to preserve the authenticity, so that maybe a lucky or chosen few will find it? But I suppose that's an artist's question to answer, where the unexpected still blows holes in old ideas.
That's a perennial argument -- is it more valid to search for some "authentic" original or try to update texts with idiomatic interpretations to make them accessible? What interests me about IC is that it has been syncretic pretty much from the start, and subject to constant updating, revision, and reinterpretation of foundational texts. To my mind serious inquiry needs to be looking back and forward at the same time, and take claims of "pure authenticity" and "pure intuition" with equal grains of salt.
 

tuckchang

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For your reference

The name of Hex 2, 屯zhun, signifies difficulty like a grass difficultly sprouting from the ground. It also means ‘to stockpile’ but is pronounced in tun2. Therefore Zhun is like a newly sprouting grass; apart from its difficulty in initiating (or being given birth), it requires collecting energy (i.e. the momentum of masculinity) and making a breakthrough.
The nuclear hexagram of Zhun is Bo: to peel away (the masculine, hexagram 23), signifying it can’t get sufficient power internally. Its changed hexagram is Ding: to innovate (50), i.e. after it makes a breakthrough, a new world (or a new regime) will be formed.

According to Shou Gua, there are two house images in Hex 3: the bottom trigram Zhen is a horse (A) lifting its front legs and neighing, and the upper trigram Kna is a horse (B) with the beautiful spine. The masculine 3.1 and 3.5 are their representative lines, respectively.
The feminine 3.2 in correlation with 3.5 rides on the horse A, while the feminine 3.4 in correlation with 3.1 rides the horse B. The feminine lines in-between are the horses crowding, side by side, which make their progress difficult.

3.5 rides a horse but the horse encounters lots of horses side-by-side in front. To propose marriage signifies to ally with 3.1 (masculinity), and it is auspicious to go forth, signifying to sustain 3.5 (masculinity). The correlation relationship is taken for marriage (see hexagram 53).

3.2 has difficulty in initiating like difficultly moving forth, and rides a horse but difficultly progresses like encountering lots of horses side-by-side in front. It is not the bandit but marriage, signifying 3.5 (masculinity) is the one that 3.2 should marry, although the influence of 3.1 (masculinity which is next to it but at its backside) makes it misunderstand that 3.5 is a bandit as the upper trigram Kan is taken for a bandit as well. The robbery and the wedding parade are both mentioned and seemingly at that time one tribe would attack the other and capture young females to be their woman. The marriage is a commitment (like making a breakthrough in moving ahead along the timeline). The girl is chaste and not pregnant; she gets pregnant after ten years, i.e. after 10 steps forward, the child of 4.5 is borne and ready for education.

Regards
Tuck
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charly

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Thanks, Brad:

Much people believe that riding horses was a most ancient practice, even more among peoples from the steppes. Maybe riding horseback for civil uses or among foreigners or low peple predated the war cavalry.



Two of the oldest images of humans riding horses, dated about 2100-1700 BC, were discovered in the ruins of a Sumerian city (top) and in the cemetery of a fortified Central Asian oasis of the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex (BMAC) (bottom). The seal scenes, one of which was the personal seal of the Animal Disburser for the Sumerian King Shu-Sin, seem to draw on a similar iconography, which might have spread with the first wave of horses to enter the ancient Near East, happening at the time the seals were carved.

From: Horses and Humans in Antiquity
at: http://users.hartwick.edu/anthonyd/harnessing horsepower.html
Ancient chinese horses were small and paunchy, to ride them was maybe not enough majestic for kings or nobles, something like to ride a donkey. Not strange the lack of horseback riding in art or monuments that were made for glory and reputation of de VIP.

Maybe horseback riding was used by common young people looking for mating.

French anthropologist Michel Peissel described in the Last Barbarians a horserace in wich young boys and girls participate as a means for arranging marriages.


From: http://themountainlibrary.com/2011/01/28/the-last-barbarians-–-michel-peissel/

Contemporary young men bear the same hairdressing with a tail that the terracotta Ching warriors, pointed Peissel there.

Speaking of Lob-Nor people, Mr. Kent wrote about "Curious Marriage Customs" in The China Review, Vol. 8 No. 3 (1879 Nov) that description:

During the spring and summer seasons, the young people are in the habit of racing along the river...
They all start off to an appointed goal, the maids paddling down the stream, and the youths galloping along the bank.
If the maids win, they select a partner for the night from amongst the youths, each in the order of her arrival at the winning post. Similarily, if the youths win, they choose their companion from the maids in turn...
If a girl becomes pregnant, she point out the author and he marries her.

The page of the review in pdf:
http://sunzi1.lib.hku.hk/hkjo/view/26/2600957.pdf
Of course, that sort of customs often comes from long ago. And the context in which horses appear in the Changes allow us to be suspicious, don't you believe?

Yours,

Charly
 
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bradford

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The invention that really cut it all loose was the hard stirrup, and surprisingly, that didn't get invented until maybe the Han, 800 years after the Zhouyi. The short stirrup was the Mongols secret weapon and at least as big a development as the saddle.
 

charly

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Horseback riding begun without saddle and without stirrup. The mosopotamic horseman of the cylinder didn´t use stirrups. Many horsemen continue riding whitout saddle or stirrups even afer it invention.

Stirrups pass for a chinese invention but...

The stirrup was apparently invented in China in the first few centuries A.D., but there is some evidence that stirrups may have been used in Assyria as early as 850 B.C. and was spread throughout Eurasia by the great horsemen of the central Asia steppes,

From: History of chinese inventions
at: http://www.computersmiths.com/chineseinvention/stirrup.htm
Even Han horsemen didn´t use stirrups, see this mounting like an english lady:


The horse is not, of course, the little horse from the steppes, but an imported pursang.

(to be continued)

Charly
 

charly

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... The girl is chaste and not pregnant; she gets pregnant after ten years...
Hi, Tuck:

I cann´t believe that the girl is not pregnant because she is chaste. To have children was a duty. To avoid children would be inconsiderate with the own ancestors. A woman could not wait years for consumating the marriage without being repudiated.

I believe that if we translate zi4 as "pregnant" it must be understood that the girl was promised very little, 10 years, or much time, before to be biologically able. It was not strange.

Yours,

Charly
 

charly

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Xanthus is the immortal horse that Achilles rode into battle. Achilles had been warned by his mother Thetis, a goddess of the sea, that if he went to battle he would perish. Naturally, Achilles didn't listen to his Mother. As fate would have it, Xanthus was given the power of speech. Xanthus warned Achilles that he was about to die in the Trojan War. This time Achilles listened. So in a sense, Xanthus is the first true talking horse. Sometimes it takes a talking horse to get people to listen.

From: http://www.xanthuscom.com/xanthusStory.html
Ch.
 

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