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I'm sorry but I have a very central pertinent question that could radically change my life.
I know I have a billion hexagrams to read, but this one is something pretty important i think gets to the root of the issue.

I was thinking today and realized that perhaps i've been doing something to an excessive degree. I've had this realization many times in the past many months. And have been on this path for a long time (perhaps years).

I see how there is a subtle contradiction in all this by this very posting. Which is the idea of slaying the ego, or diminishing the ego. I do it so I can fit easier into the circumstances. But it has I think hit a degree that is very dangerous.

Please over look my speech as hyperbole is not a effort to be egotistical.

Am I excessively trying to diminish my "ego" is this whats leading to all these problems?
9 --- - -
7 --- ---
8 - - - -
8 - - - -
8 - - - -
9 --- - -

42 -> 8

42 seems to embody my aim. Thats what I want to happen, ultimately.


Chris Loftings site :

Line 6:

"Absolutely no benefit. Maybe even physical abuse. [Even] ordering one's morality [lacks] perseverance thus exposing one to danger." [Trying for relief. Attempts to improve the situation do not work and even expose one to attack. Attempts to reorder one's self are shown to lack perseverance. No matter how hard one tries relief does not come.

Thats what it feels like. At times. Like I'm trapped in this and can't escape.

Line 1:
"Activating one's will through stimulation, beneficial. Great advantage. No harm in this" [Move upwards]

Thats also what it feels like. At times. It feels supreme and energetic.
In fact If I don't feel the energy I consider that a reason to try to decrease my ego.
Release tension... etc.

It seems to have a duality in the answer.
The hexagram is Increase but my question involves a notion of decrease.

Hexagram 8 Just the title seems to say just by the title

Hold yourself togather.

So I should stop trying to slay the ego?
Maybe I'm going a little too far?
 
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martin

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Slaying the ego is a risky game. Before you know it you end up slaying parts of your authentic self because you mistake them for 'ego'.
What is ego and what is not? Hard to say sometimes.

But this self or ego :cool: or whatever is too sleepy now. Perhaps more tomorrow, it's a very interesting subject.
 
U

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That is a problem.

I think I'm definatly doing it wrong.

I think I WAS doing it right. But for the past few years - i've just been doing it wrong wrong wrong.

Perhaps what the Yi is saying is how do to it right.
Which is to serve others.

But just for the short term
But this reading is definatly saying
something is wrong - right?
 
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dobro p

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Man, you're way off with that notion of 'slaying the ego'. You didn't have to ask the Yi, you just coulda asked me.

The ego has a function in the overall economy of the human mind. I've heard that function described as a 'secretary' function - the ego is very useful when there's a boss around who knows what she's doing. But when the boss is not in evidence, the ego starts making decisions for the absent boss, and that's when the trouble starts, when a lower mental function starts doing the work of a higher mental function.

So, the trick is to find or establish the boss in the economy of the mind, not slay the ego. Finding or establishing the boss is what the spiritual path is all about.

As for your consultation result, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Yi was saying something like: "Slay the ego? Nah, stop it. In your case, CM, you need to INCREASE AND STRENGTHEN the ego first, before you take any further steps along the lines of personal or spiritual development."

I'm not joking, and I'm not making this interpretation at your expense. You've related to us in this forum how you're suffering from depression and anxiety. My take on situations like that is that very often the problem isn't too much ego, but not enough. You need an ego that's strong enough to do the job of the secretary (ie interface with the external world and carry out everyday tasks efficiently) without caving in. Your secretary seems to be having trouble carrying out those tasks these days. Don't slay the secretary. Get some help. Strengthen the secretary.

dobro
 
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Tohpol

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Man, you're way off with that notion of 'slaying the ego'. You didn't have to ask the Yi, you just coulda asked me.

The ego has a function in the overall economy of the human mind. I've heard that function described as a 'secretary' function - the ego is very useful when there's a boss around who knows what she's doing. But when the boss is not in evidence, the ego starts making decisions for the absent boss, and that's when the trouble starts, when a lower mental function starts doing the work of a higher mental function.

So, the trick is to find or establish the boss in the economy of the mind, not slay the ego. Finding or establishing the boss is what the spiritual path is all about.

As for your consultation result, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Yi was saying something like: "Slay the ego? Nah, stop it. In your case, CM, you need to INCREASE AND STRENGTHEN the ego first, before you take any further steps along the lines of personal or spiritual development."

I'm not joking, and I'm not making this interpretation at your expense. You've related to us in this forum how you're suffering from depression and anxiety. My take on situations like that is that very often the problem isn't too much ego, but not enough. You need an ego that's strong enough to do the job of the secretary (ie interface with the external world and carry out everyday tasks efficiently) without caving in. Your secretary seems to be having trouble carrying out those tasks these days. Don't slay the secretary. Get some help. Strengthen the secretary.

dobro

Yeah interesting subject.

I think before any REAL work can be done you gotta have a healthy personality or ego otherwise any more "advanced" work will drain away. It's like building the foundations of the house - they have to be strong and made of the right materials. And the right materials are sourced from the best suppliers. And the best suppliers can be found by asking a network of people who have built their own houses with proven success. And really, as long as you keep it simple and do it step by step, going slowly, paying attention to possible leaks and cracks in the infrastructure - you can have good strong foundations for a fine house. But like any project it takes time - especially when you have to go back and do some refurbishments and repairs! :D

In very real sense, "slaying the ego" - like love - seems to be horribly confused in our modern culture and so many are desperately trying to slay something in the wrong sense. Almost in a puritanical "I'm not worthy" sense that can be quite harmful.

Depending on which tradition you've been influenced by you are "slaying" aspects of the LOWER ego when you begin to tread a path proper, (George and the Dragon; Jesus and his sword shamans being "boiled" in cauldrons etc.) But boy is it ever a mindfield. And boy, are most of those traditions distorted in some way...Pretty impossible to do it alone I think, but certainly possible to get to the stage of having a balanced ego as part of the path towards that Way. (I live in hope anyway :D)

You may have followed some recent threads here where there were brief discussions of how people perceive each other and how very different impressions can be given. Folks can be completely unaware as to what impression they may be giving and how trigger words can bring forth all kinds of responses from hidden memories housed deep in the mind/body complex. With that in mind, if you want to use your mind/intellect to develop your awareness and to establish a healthy personality/ego then look back at your emotional past to when you were a child as objectively as you can and find out how, when and who shaped your personality. You'll discover all kinds of things you'd forgotten - good times and traumatic times that nevertheless caused some distortion. Once you've done that - really felt those times again and addressed them consciously - you can let them go. That goes a long way to healing aspects of yourself that have been hidden away in the shadows. You are literally shining a light on them and bringing them into the open.

A really healthy ego is a bit like a wild animal in that you have to treat it right. Master it so that it doesn't bite you in the backside in numerous ways. That means finding out what makes you tick - your preferences an predispostions. Knowing youreslf. Right now, as Dobro says, concentrate on the ABC of a healthy ego BEFORE you attempt to go "higher" is the order of the day.

Hence, discussions like these and general networking can be so valuable. Makes me realise how far I have to go! :rofl:

Topal
 
U

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well obviously the yi says

Increase not diminish.
And HOLD TOGETHER.

so that seems pretty clear.
 

martin

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In very real sense, "slaying the ego" - like love - seems to be horribly confused in our modern culture and so many are desperately trying to slay something in the wrong sense. Almost in a puritanical "I'm not worthy" sense that can be quite harmful.

I think part of the confusion is caused by different definitions of 'ego' in various psychological schools and mystical traditions. If psychologists talk about a 'healthy ego' they may mean, for instance, that the 'ego functions' as listed in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_psychology#Ego_functions are working properly.
I don't think that any authentic mystical tradition sees this kind of ego as a problem, as something that one needs to get rid of. On the contrary, it is an asset, in everyday life as well as 'on the path'.
When mystics talk about 'ego' as a problem, a hindrance, they mean something else. There is a lot of variation here but basically it always seems to come down to a misperception of who or what we are. Or a misidentification, an identification with what we are not.
Then the next question is what to do about it. Again a lot of variation. Some schools advocate a struggle, while others (advaita vedanta for instance) stress that there is nothing to struggle with. From their perspective fighting your ego makes no sense, because you are dealing with a misperception, an illusion. You don't make war with an illusion, you see through it, recognize it as an illusion, and then it disappears.
 

martin

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One possible take on 42>8 ..

Thunder, the lower trigram of 42, represents what many would probably think of as 'ego', not the healthy ego of psychology but the ego that is a hindrance on a mystical path.
Thunder personified makes a lot of noise, is rather aggressive, contentious, quarrelsome, not modest, insensitive, impulsive, egocentric, and so on. This could all be seen as unwanted 'ego', unless you are on some mystical warrior path perhaps (but even then).

But in hexagram 42 the complementary trigram wood is on top. Wood is soft, gentle, sensitive, thoughtful. It compensates and softens the 'rough' thunder.
My guess is that the Yi says with this hexagram how best to deal with thunder, the ego, or at least the thunderous aspect of ego. It is a source of energy, vitality and as such valuable. So you don't try to destroy it or inhibit it but you channel it, adapt it, soften it, refine it.
Hexagram 8 in the background emphasizes line 5, the line of 'the king', psychologically the real self. If you do 42 (compensate your thunder with wood, soften it, and so on) you are aligned with who you really are. No ego, no problem. :)
 
U

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No ego, no problem. :)

Yep there it is. The affirmation of true spiritual self immolation.

I think not.

I think - No ego big BIG problems.

Being aligned with who you are does not mean your ego-less.
I've never had a iota of problems regarded to the ego as you stated:
aggressive, contentious, quarrelsome, not modest, insensitive, impulsive, egocentric, and so on. This could all be seen as unwanted 'ego'

UNTILL I started "slaying my ego"
Which i've been doing since the 9th grade.
(might explain a few things) ;)
 
U

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Thats the most precious years of my life. Sacrificed to a demonic force.

About 9 years.

Now what the $%$ am i supposed to do?
 

martin

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Personally I see it much as advaita sees it, btw. The ego is an illusion, fighting it makes no sense to me.
 
U

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i've found that it's not an illuison.
It's very very real, in fact I think it is the
bedrock of the real.
but acutally that kind of thinking IS illusory..
But I agree fighting it is totally pathological.
There is nothing to see through.
Except the attempt to see through it.
Which is probably some kind of method of
population control like the rest of the religions
 
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rodaki

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who's slaying who

Hi CyclotronMajesty,

I am just wondering here . .
Do you ever wonder who is ordering your 'slaying the ego'? I'm thinking that maybe it IS your ego who is doing the slaying -or attempting to slay- the weak parts of you, but very often the weak parts, especially when you are young, need love and nurturing (so as to grow and change, reveal their creative rather than their destructive face), not war, not bloodshed . .
There is a chance you are doing very real damage to yourself as a whole by going on with 'slaying'.

Now, loving yourself, that is a REAL challenge, for this love means you know when to be gentle with all the irrational drives or desires and when to be strict with them, and that is a very fine balance to recognize and keep.

So my question is, how can you be so sure so as to start the war?

In many ways when we start going inwards we are like The Wanderer (56), strangers in a strange land, and we must be very careful with our ways.

hex. 42:
To rule truly is to serve.

A sacrifice of the higher element that produces an increase of the lower is called an out-and-out increase: it indicates the spirit that alone has power to help the world.
-Wilhelm

could that be that the forceful part of you (however you call it) should yield and nourish your weak parts?

hex.8:
" hex. 8 Union, was all about forming partnerships, and particularly about finding one's place in the Union, am I a leader or a follower?"
this from Rosada's comment on the Image of hex.9 from the Memorizing Hex.9 thread.

My feeling over your struggle is that you should be striving for harmony, thus you should be learning how parts of you work and then trying to bring them together in ways that one fills the blank spots of others, supports and corrects them . . Even poisonous plants have their place in gardens, as long as the gardener knows how to treat them and how they can treat him from sickness (poisonous extracts can and are used as remedies-but you have to know very well the way to do it)

if i were in your place -and I have been, my year was when I was 11 . . not really 'demonic' forces, but feeling of being totally run over by forces that were not benevolent or beneficial towards me- I would opt for the patient learning way -and believe me I am on that for the past 20 years and still discovering things towards clarity of thought and sharpness in judgement.

I know that giving advice on such delicate personal issues is a knife that cuts both ways but I hope you'll find something useful in the above (even if it might be in the form of disagreement)

wish you all the strength . .

rodaki
 

dobro p

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Hi CyclotronMajesty,

I am just wondering here . .
Do you ever wonder who is ordering your 'slaying the ego'? I'm thinking that maybe it IS your ego who is doing the slaying -or attempting to slay- the weak parts of you, but very often the weak parts, especially when you are young, need love and nurturing (so as to grow and change, reveal their creative rather than their destructive face), not war, not bloodshed . .

There is a chance you are doing very real damage to yourself as a whole by going on with 'slaying'.

Yeah, exactly. And the 'slaying' agenda could also be an unconscious attitude and behavior of self-damage conditioned in childhood. The ego is a function that operates to navigate the external world in a way that ensures the survival of the perceived 'self', right? But it does so in ways that accord with one's unconscious conditioning. So, if your parents beat you up either physically or emotionally or sexually, then you grow up thinking that being beat up is appropriate to what you are, and you arrange your life in ways that gets you beat up regularly - you do it to yourself if nobody else is handy to do it. And the irony of this little prison is that in doing all this, your ego is functioning to preserve this image of self. It's the agent of a negative or destructive unconscious set of assumptions about the way things are, a set of assumptions about the way it 'should' be.

And as I said before, when you find the part of your consciousness that's higher than ego, the ego falls into place and functions in a positive way. No slaying required. All that negativity just calms down and evaporates.
 
D

diamanda

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The way i see it, the alpha male/female is the same as 'the superior man' (or woman).
A person who possesses strength, knows what is right, and thus directs their energy
into strengthening what is right. By furthering themselves, and others at the same
time, they achieve the best of life's potential. They further life itself, inside them and
all around them, and thus how can they not have a good life? How much more alpha
than this can one get? Perhaps the term 'alpha male' has been so misused that it has
somehow ended up to bring in mind a guy full of testosterone aggression and oomph.
Alpha means leading. No doubt we have some bad examples of leaders all around, but,
again, "to rule is to serve", serve life itself.

The question is how does this get you a girlfriend? The answer is you only need to be
strong and correct, a 'superior man' exactly as the I Ching describes. To direct your
strength towards what's good, to the positive, to the uplifting, concentrate on what
you want, and marshal your power towards that, with the purpose always of furthering
yourself and others at the same time.

I'm hoping i managed to put this in words in a way that makes some sense!
 

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